Giving Back to the Game

[MASC]

This site is concerned with youth soccer in Massachusetts and generally with 200 or so players in the GU14 and GU15 age group or less than .2% of the youth players in Massachusetts.

Soccer in MA is not healthy!

There are too few people giving back to the sport. The following are the most obvious areas where the "Premier" soccer community needs to contribute in order for the sport to become healthy:

1) Referees. There are far too few qualified referees. Many games at all levels have too few qualified officials. Most involved with the .2% feel that referees are below dirt. This attitude permeates youth soccer. Ever wonder why most teens hate officiating?

2) Coach/train. It takes much more than being a good player to coach/train players.

3) Administration. This is not very exciting. Teams, clubs, leagues need people to register players, collect monies, organize trips, order and distribute uniforms, maintain fields, etc.

4) Volunteer. Massachusetts has turned-down/refused to apply to host the Nation's Cup Regional Tournament or the National Finals due to a lack of support from the soccer community. The .2% demand everything but give nothing back. MA has no one willing to volunteer so all USYSA regional and national competitions will take place where people are willing, i.e. as far from MA as possible. Of course such is in keeping with the reputation of selfishness that MA has earned. A beautiful complex has been built in Lancaster and it will never host a regional or national competition.

[Liverpool Coach]

Re: Giving Back to the Game

This site is concerned with youth soccer in Massachusetts and generally with 200 or so players in the GU14 and GU15 age group or less than .2% of the youth players in Massachusetts.

Soccer in MA is not healthy!

There are too few people giving back to the sport. The following are the most obvious areas where the "Premier" soccer community needs to contribute in order for the sport to become healthy:

1) Referees. There are far too few qualified referees. Many games at all levels have too few qualified officials. Most involved with the .2% feel that referees are below dirt. This attitude permeates youth soccer. Ever wonder why most teens hate officiating?

2) Coach/train. It takes much more than being a good player to coach/train players.

3) Administration. This is not very exciting. Teams, clubs, leagues need people to register players, collect monies, organize trips, order and distribute uniforms, maintain fields, etc.

4) Volunteer. Massachusetts has turned-down/refused to apply to host the Nation's Cup Regional Tournament or the National Finals due to a lack of support from the soccer community. The .2% demand everything but give nothing back. MA has no one willing to volunteer so all USYSA regional and national competitions will take place where people are willing, i.e. as far from MA as possible. Of course such is in keeping with the reputation of selfishness that MA has earned. A beautiful complex has been built in Lancaster and it will never host a regional or national competition.

All fair and valid points. As a coach who has volunteered for the better part of 2 decades and has run programs both big and small I can tell you that finding volunteers is not easy. The soccer community usually just says tell me how much to pay and where to go and I'll do it. In all fairness though parents have a lot on their plate and probably volunteer for other activities and can not do everything. I truly feel that if it were said that we were doing it here that the volunteers could be found. Getting them in advance is the hard thing but also I have never been asked about being a volunteer for something like that. And I think a lot of others don't know about it either. The advertising / public knowledge of soccer events is almost non-existent.

Your point # 2 above couldn't be truer.

This forum is much more for gossip than anything else. Or at least that is how it is being used right now.

Personally I'd like to see more games in a season. Regular season. Playing 7 games in a spring puts way too much emphasis on winning. The current system allows for maybe 15 games in a full year of outdoor play. There should be at least 30 outdoor games per year without doing double headers, tournaments, etc.

Referees will always be a sore issue on both sides. Give me the ref who does not give effort and who is just there to collect a paycheck and I'll complain. Give me the ref who works hard to get in position to make good calls and gives an honest effort and I'll always salute them. The coaches and players and parents are all putting forth efforts to provide for a good game...the refs should do so as well but they don't always. I am not a ref basher. I think the zero tolerance policy has a lot to do with this. First of all if a parent tries to follow this they're going to keep things inside until they burst and then when they burst it gets overly emotional real quick. I have also had refs approach me before games and tell me that one word directed towards them and they'll eject me and I don't know them. The refs know they have the zero tolerance policy to fall back on and they abuse it. Again, not all but I have seen a few who have. And most of those instances are with young refs who feel they are sheltered and nothing can be said to them and so they don't even try. Throughout the world communication is a part of any sport. We need to teach our players, parents, coaches, and refs that it's okay to talk about our differences on a call. But that there is a time and a place for that...NOT every time and every place. As a parent how would you like it if a ref felt you said or did something inappropriate at a game and then yelled out at you about it? How would you feel as a coach if the ref yelled at you during a game and tried to embarass you? It's about respect. I've found most officials are okay if you talk to them in the right manner and they will reciprocate. It's easy to sit here and type these things in but in the heat of the moment it is more difficult. Due to the lack of qualified referees it's got to be a great part time job if you have the inclination.

[Cujo]

Re: Giving Back to the Game

This site is concerned with youth soccer in Massachusetts and generally with 200 or so players in the GU14 and GU15 age group or less than .2% of the youth players in Massachusetts.

Soccer in MA is not healthy!

There are too few people giving back to the sport. The following are the most obvious areas where the "Premier" soccer community needs to contribute in order for the sport to become healthy:

1) Referees. There are far too few qualified referees. Many games at all levels have too few qualified officials. Most involved with the .2% feel that referees are below dirt. This attitude permeates youth soccer. Ever wonder why most teens hate officiating?

2) Coach/train. It takes much more than being a good player to coach/train players.

3) Administration. This is not very exciting. Teams, clubs, leagues need people to register players, collect monies, organize trips, order and distribute uniforms, maintain fields, etc.

4) Volunteer. Massachusetts has turned-down/refused to apply to host the Nation's Cup Regional Tournament or the National Finals due to a lack of support from the soccer community. The .2% demand everything but give nothing back. MA has no one willing to volunteer so all USYSA regional and national competitions will take place where people are willing, i.e. as far from MA as possible. Of course such is in keeping with the reputation of selfishness that MA has earned. A beautiful complex has been built in Lancaster and it will never host a regional or national competition.

Where is Lancaster? I looked on a map and couldn't find it.......last time I checked most people in Ma. lived inside 128. For years I have been pointing out that this area is terribly neglected and grossly underrepresented in the MA soccer world.

Re: Giving Back to the Game

This site is concerned with youth soccer in Massachusetts and generally with 200 or so players in the GU14 and GU15 age group or less than .2% of the youth players in Massachusetts.

Soccer in MA is not healthy!

There are too few people giving back to the sport. The following are the most obvious areas where the "Premier" soccer community needs to contribute in order for the sport to become healthy:

1) Referees. There are far too few qualified referees. Many games at all levels have too few qualified officials. Most involved with the .2% feel that referees are below dirt. This attitude permeates youth soccer. Ever wonder why most teens hate officiating?

2) Coach/train. It takes much more than being a good player to coach/train players.

3) Administration. This is not very exciting. Teams, clubs, leagues need people to register players, collect monies, organize trips, order and distribute uniforms, maintain fields, etc.

4) Volunteer. Massachusetts has turned-down/refused to apply to host the Nation's Cup Regional Tournament or the National Finals due to a lack of support from the soccer community. The .2% demand everything but give nothing back. MA has no one willing to volunteer so all USYSA regional and national competitions will take place where people are willing, i.e. as far from MA as possible. Of course such is in keeping with the reputation of selfishness that MA has earned. A beautiful complex has been built in Lancaster and it will never host a regional or national competition.

Where is Lancaster? I looked on a map and couldn't find it.......last time I checked most people in Ma. lived inside 128. For years I have been pointing out that this area is terribly neglected and grossly underrepresented in the MA soccer world.

The field complex is a couple of exits west of Devens on Route 2. Not far from Fitchburg. Are you using a map from the 1800's?

[MASC]

Re: Giving Back to the Game

Where is Lancaster? I looked on a map and couldn't find it.......last time I checked most people in Ma. lived inside 128. For years I have been pointing out that this area is terribly neglected and grossly underrepresented in the MA soccer world.

There are far more people in the rte. 495 to rte. 128 belt than inside of it.

Metropolitan Boston according to the US Census is everything inside Rte 495.

Inside Rte. 128 is very well represented in that Newton, Needham, and Waltham all are inside or straddle Rte. 128 and the most poweful clubs and leagues have significant presence in that area. Additionally many of the MassYouth executives are from that area.

[teskicks]

A minor point but I think most of Needham is outside of 128.

[Cujo]

Re: Giving Back to the Game

Where is Lancaster? I looked on a map and couldn't find it.......last time I checked most people in Ma. lived inside 128. For years I have been pointing out that this area is terribly neglected and grossly underrepresented in the MA soccer world.

There are far more people in the rte. 495 to rte. 128 belt than inside of it.

Metropolitan Boston according to the US Census is everything inside Rte 495.

Inside Rte. 128 is very well represented in that Newton, Needham, and Waltham all are inside or straddle Rte. 128 and the most poweful clubs and leagues have significant presence in that area. Additionally many of the MassYouth executives are from that area.

I did a statistical analysis sometime back that showed that MA soccer is not representative of MA population on a per capita basis. Lancaster is not a viable playing venue for half of the population. Kind of the same reason why the Home Depot complex in Calif. is in southern call and not Big Sur. Obviously different scale but analogous still. Anyway this is a little bit of a digression from the subject at hand. I left MA soccer for health reasons (surgery and diabetes) but am reluctant to come back. I don't tolerate parents who try to run the show and who play games and all you have to do is look at the posts and temper tantrums in here to see why I probably won't ever get involved again in Mass. I know many would like to portray me as a jerk but I really am not. I get along with most people and am really a nice guy. I just won't kiss anybody's ass because their kid is a soccer whizz and they have a fat bank account. I paid my dues as a volunteer coach and board member for years and ran a club without taking a cent for myself. By far most of the experiences I had were positive but the 10% that weren't were so bad that I don't think I can do it again. The 10% as I have stated a million times ruin it for the other 90% and I mean everywhere and not just in soccer. The toll that coaching and administering soccer took on my wife and family were enormous. As my wife said to me "do you know how hard it is to stand on the sideline and listen to people criticize and rip you for every move you make"? Who needs that? I went into coaching bright eyed and idealistic and left slightly cyncial and jaded after 14 years. I'd work 9 hours coach for 4 and get home to eat dinner at 8pm to a message on my answering machine from my Athletic Director asking me to come in at 730am to meet with Miss Crankypants who was upset because her daughter only played 10 minutes in todays game. There is your answer MASC.

It would be wonderful to have a 16 field complex with lights and 5 turf fields in an area inside of rt 128 (or 495 for that matter) The question is where do you think this property is. I remember the great line from Back to School when Rodney says to Bomabay: "Where are you going to build this factory... how about Fantasyland?" Property values and availabilty inside 128 are such that finding space for a two field municipal complex is next to impossible. Lancaster is a pretty good spot, no more than 60 -70 minutes from just about anywhere in the state and southern NH.

I have read the complaints about finding enough volunteers as THE reason for MYSA's lack of willingness to host a regional or national event. I think it is a factor but not the only one and alone propbably not as important as some others combined. One problem at lancaster is going to be parking. Even with only the front five turf fields in use the state cup filled parking in the upper lot to its limits. Add three or more grass fields up front and it could be a real problem if the lower parking (which does not seem to be as substantial) is inadequate for those back 7 or 8 fields. Actually a national event, which requires about a 1/4 of the fields and hotel space of a regional would be a better fit but you do run into problems advertising it as a Boston event and booking rooms in Fitchburg and Worcester (sorry central Mass)

[Cujo]

It would be wonderful to have a 16 field complex with lights and 5 turf fields in an area inside of rt 128 (or 495 for that matter) The question is where do you think this property is. I remember the great line from Back to School when Rodney says to Bomabay: "Where are you going to build this factory... how about Fantasyland?" Property values and availabilty inside 128 are such that finding space for a two field municipal complex is next to impossible. Lancaster is a pretty good spot, no more than 60 -70 minutes from just about anywhere in the state and southern NH.

I have read the complaints about finding enough volunteers as THE reason for MYSA's lack of willingness to host a regional or national event. I think it is a factor but not the only one and alone propbably not as important as some others combined. One problem at lancaster is going to be parking. Even with only the front five turf fields in use the state cup filled parking in the upper lot to its limits. Add three or more grass fields up front and it could be a real problem if the lower parking (which does not seem to be as substantial) is inadequate for those back 7 or 8 fields. Actually a national event, which requires about a 1/4 of the fields and hotel space of a regional would be a better fit but you do run into problems advertising it as a Boston event and booking rooms in Fitchburg and Worcester (sorry central Mass)

That is a legitimate question. I am not sure if an effort was made. It would require working with the state as they have quite a few unused parcels left over from their network of now defunct mental hospitals. Waltham stands out. In any case whats done is done and the facility is out of reach for many players and their families.

[Red99]

Re: Giving Back to the Game

This site is concerned with youth soccer in Massachusetts and generally with 200 or so players in the GU14 and GU15 age group or less than .2% of the youth players in Massachusetts.

Soccer in MA is not healthy!

There are too few people giving back to the sport. The following are the most obvious areas where the "Premier" soccer community needs to contribute in order for the sport to become healthy:

1) Referees. There are far too few qualified referees. Many games at all levels have too few qualified officials. Most involved with the .2% feel that referees are below dirt. This attitude permeates youth soccer. Ever wonder why most teens hate officiating?

2) Coach/train. It takes much more than being a good player to coach/train players.

3) Administration. This is not very exciting. Teams, clubs, leagues need people to register players, collect monies, organize trips, order and distribute uniforms, maintain fields, etc.

4) Volunteer. Massachusetts has turned-down/refused to apply to host the Nation's Cup Regional Tournament or the National Finals due to a lack of support from the soccer community. The .2% demand everything but give nothing back. MA has no one willing to volunteer so all USYSA regional and national competitions will take place where people are willing, i.e. as far from MA as possible. Of course such is in keeping with the reputation of selfishness that MA has earned. A beautiful complex has been built in Lancaster and it will never host a regional or national competition.

Getting back to MASC's original post, where he made some very valid points -

Early on when our kids became interested in soccer, we tried to volunteer but found obstacles at the town level, some in-place politics that ended up being exclusionary in order to keep the status quo. Of course to the detriment of the majority of players in our very active soccer town.

By the time our one child really began focusing on soccer vs other sports, she made it clear that she did NOT want us involved in any way, and she was pretty articulate about explaining that the experience would be better for her if we just stayed on the sidelines (and in particular, did not yell or shout at anyone on the field) and just drove her to her stuff - pretty much the only question we were allowed to ask was whether she'd had fun. Wise at age 11. And I'm not talking about coaching, training or even admin (which organized mom would've been great at), she did not even feel comfortable having us volunteer at any level. It worked out best for everyone that way and I think took a lot of pressure off of her that I see other kids experiencing. She is the one who has decided to what level she wanted to bring her soccer. I can't help think that if we had pushed harder to become involved, she might have backed off. Now that's definitely not every kid, I see kids whose parents coach, are team parents, etc. who are just as enthralled with the sport and happy and accomplished as my daughter, but maybe there are some other kids out there who have personalities like my daughter and really have done better because their parents did not volunteer. I suppose we could have ignored her wishes and given more to the game to help create a happier soccer environment in Mass as MASC suggests, but at the end of the day we have to do what's best for her. (sorry if that makes us seem anti-it takes a village, but what's a parent to do)?

It's pretty ironic that on the one hand, in other posts Cujo blasts everyone for not volunteering and becoming involved like he did (ie. giving up countless hours, expense and overall mental health, apparently, to better the game of soccer) and on the other hand, he is advocating that parents get lost and stay lost. Really he scares me, I don't think the poster that reflected that it was good to know where he was coaching so as to avoid that club was that out of line. Not sure you realize how ballistic you come off sometimes, Cujo, and as I said before, you sound like you tried hard and HAVE given a lot to youth soccer over the years, but unfortunately you've had some experiences that have made you bitter and close-minded, and I too would want to avoid a coach like that. (Never mind having you as someone who would interview my kid for an internship when you spend most of your "Work" day posting on this forum, is your employer okay with that)?

Anyway, I'm getting off-topic too, sorry MASC. Cujo is just depressing.

As for the refereeing, my daughter took the level 9 course (8 hours+ on a beautiful Sat. afternoon in August) and refereed about 9-10 games one season a few years ago. She was a U-13 refereeing U-9s and 10s in BAYS. Overall, the parents weren't too bad, they were pretty understanding and I think were appreciative at having a ref who tried hard and was very focused on the game and took it seriously. The coaches, though, that's what drove her away from ever doing it again. Screaming at her, berating her -- of course, not all of them, but it happened enough times over the course of the 10 games that she decided it wasn't for her. I'm sure not an atypical story, unfortunately (I know the referee situation has been discussed ad nauseum). But anyway, that was her experience.

So, MASC, while we are ardent youth soccer supporters, sometimes it's hard for everyone to help out, especially with two jobs, several kids, and the different personalities of our little players taken into account. But I do support your position, and am open to hearing what you think we could do differently?

[Fred Marks]

I wouldnt agree with the statement that soccer isnt healthy in Mass.

There are clubs here now that can compete Regionally and Nationally. The travel leagues and the MTOC seem fine. Recreational soccer is very healthy. High school soccer is popular.

The people who I know that are involved in club soccer across the state are very enthusiastic about it.

Each year it appears to me that the teams we play against locally have better and better coaches.

I would think that we would need an appropriate facility before we could host a Regional event. That has nothing to do with volunteers. If Lancaster is never used for a Regional competition it will be because of parking, roadways and hotel deficiencies.

"The .2% demand everything but give nothing back". Is this a MASC/MAPLE thing?

This thread certainly wasn't about the Lancaster facility, although some discussion has been about it. It is important to understand a couple of things. First, Mass Youth Soccer is a private entity and even with its charitable mission was well down the list of potential suitors for surpluss state property. Second, the Lancaster complex is about 230 acres. It was purchased in the late 90's for significantly less than today's inflated market values. Somewhat unique business partnerships (thank you Norm Wagner) allowed the price to be manageable. It is ulikely that Mass Youth would be able to purchase a tract of property of this size and quality in today's market - even in Central Mass. A flat parcel inside of 128 of this size (except in a re-use context) is essentially non-existant. Third, developing a field complex in a re-use context is virtually impossible. Not only is the acquisition cost exhorbitant but it is also so much more expensive to develop the property. The demoltion and removal of existing structures, addressing environmental issues and heavy permitting expenses simply aren't worth it. Finally, Mass Youth Soccer really doesn't buy the world ends at Framingham mentality. It sees its mission as serving the entire state, Provincetown to Williamstown and as it has been said, Lancaster is equally inconvenient for just about everybody.

[MASC]

No worse than Devens that has 11 to 15 fields in use each Sunday.

Devens seems to have less parking than Lancaster. How do all of these teams manage to play and there not be significant parking problems?

Do people actually car pool so that greater than one player is transported per car? MASC had a tournament at Lancaster with 36 teams on site all day and there were no complaints with respect to parking. The state cup semi-finals only involve 28 teams (14 games), who are not on site all day. The finals only involve 14 teams (7 games).

At many tournaments there are few facilities closer than a half hour drive.

From Boston to Lancaster is under an hour. Concord is 15 to 20 minutes tops.

At PDA events, the tournament hotel was twenty minutes from the fields.

Atlantic Union College is very close. Devens has new hotels. There is a beautiful new hotel and conference center with-in a mile or two west on Rte. 2. Isn't Cushing Academy just down the road? One could handle a significant event in Lancaster in June, July or August with some good planning.

[MASC]

"The .2% demand everything but give nothing back". Is this a MASC/MAPLE thing?

Fred,

The remark was based solely on the posts that have been on this bulletin board.

There has been advancement, but there are also serious systemic problems: There is a significant shortage of qualified referees and a huge gap in the "middle" with respect to developing referees. Additionally there are political issues involving long held prejudices and grudges. The politics in youth soccer, ie. the towns, the clubs, the leagues, etc. are brutal.

In terms of challenges: Every league has issues with fields and officials. There is a very high demand for both and a signifcant shortage of both.

No where did I mention MAPLE. MAPLE is not the issue and has never been the issue. MAPLE faces many of the same challenges that MASC does.

[Fred Marks]

OK... just asking... wasnt sure where you were going with that...