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Positions and Play Time at U11/12

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    #16
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    Thank you and agree.

    Ironically - like the prior poster above your response, my son played mostly MF last year for town/travel and his foot skills improved tremendously.

    I'm thinking he was originally pegged for D for club bc of his size (tallest one on the team) and willingness to play anywhere.

    His fave position is keeper, and he's good at it. But I don't want him to specialize there either.

    I'll give it a game or two and see what happens before I speak up.

    I think you need to step a little further back and think about it in the following way (just my opinion, not a personal shot):
    - Is your son not playing town/travel anymore? That will reduce his touches, regardless of your views of town/travel. And it sounds like if he did both, he'd be able to play MF, D, and GK. Talk about a great way to develop a well-rounded athlete/player.
    - Footskills don't deteriorate because of the position you play. All players are (should be) trained the same way. Playing a defensive position doesn't prohibit you from having or developing footskills. We're 30 years past defenders just clearing the ball long every touch (at least I hope your son's team is).
    - If he played catcher, would you prefer he didn't so that he can play center field? How about choosing to run the hurdles instead of the dash? Or tight end instead of linebacker? Why try to redirect his interest into something that you want him to do?

    This is the great failing of some youth players, in my opinion. I know several players whose parents keep moving them to different clubs because "my kid is a center mid, but the coach puts him in the back". Maybe he's the best choice at center back and is really good at it. Maybe he'd be a great GK. Maybe the coach identifies his talents better than you do.
    Or maybe in town, the better players are all midfielders (likely)... and a club team can't have 10 midfielders and a GK.

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      I'll give it a game or two and see what happens before I speak up.
      Word of caution: if you are new to club (or specifically THIS club)... complaining after two games isn't going to make you any friends with the coaches.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        As a club elite team club coach I think this is a no brainer. I play players at all positions at U11 and under to include keeper if I do not have a player that is interested in it full-time. I am creating soccer players, not position players. I play all players at least half the game if they come to 80% or more of trainings and games and give 100% effort also. I do not have favorites and I do not put winning ahead of development at this age. I also do not take players out for making mistakes. I think this kills a players confidence and they are less willling to try something new in the future. I do play the players that are playing well that day more than others because they earned the extra playing time. All my players have noticed so they all work hard and want to do well in training and games. This is all I can ask for as a coach, kids want to work hard and get better. I feel that coaches that play players less than half a game or play players only at one position is doing so for their ego and not for the development of their players.
        Sadly I'd argue this is the exception rather than the rule (even with town soccer, which is arguably an even bigger sin).

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          #19
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          - Footskills don't deteriorate because of the position you play. All players are (should be) trained the same way. Playing a defensive position doesn't prohibit you from having or developing footskills. We're 30 years past defenders just clearing the ball long every touch (at least I hope your son's team is).
          You typed "should" and "hope" yourself, I think that speaks volumes of the idea of something versus the reality, at least in too many instances.

          Comment


            #20
            I was coaching a U11 team 8v8 with 12 players. I gave everyone at least half the game (let's say 30 minutes on the field out of an hour). A soccer dad approached me after a game and asserted that everyone should be playing 55 minutes minimum. I saw that same dad coaching travel about a year later at a local tournament and several kids on his team rode the bench for all but 10 minutes. Another situation, I had a girl quit a different team I was coaching because I played the weaker players too much, and I had a different girl on the same team quit the same day because I didn't play the weaker players enough. I think players should rotate positions through U14 and should develop their weak foot, too. I had a player walk off my practice field at U12 because I declare the practice was, "weak foot day," and she didn't want to use her weak foot; parent let that happen. In other words, soccer parents can suck. Where was I? Oh, before U15, all players should get a half, and all players should see different positions on the field. Goalies should get field time, too. And, if you have weak players on a competitive team, remember, you didn't cut them and you accepted the check: make them better.

            Comment


              #21
              Just reading "offense" and "defense" as positions makes my head explode. Yeah, I get that a striker and center back have different roles, but attacking and defending are principles of play, not positions. If your kid's coach doesn't clearly offer this distinction in his instruction or his style of play, where all of the kids on the field are attacking together and defending together based on possession, and instead leans heavily toward this so-called "specialization" then I'd be seriously about player development. The team might play great soccer, win a lot, but any number of kids might be getting short changed in terms of having a well-rounded set of skills and understanding of the game.


              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              As a club elite team club coach I think this is a no brainer. I play players at all positions at U11 and under to include keeper if I do not have a player that is interested in it full-time. I am creating soccer players, not position players. I play all players at least half the game if they come to 80% or more of trainings and games and give 100% effort also. I do not have favorites and I do not put winning ahead of development at this age. I also do not take players out for making mistakes. I think this kills a players confidence and they are less willling to try something new in the future. I do play the players that are playing well that day more than others because they earned the extra playing time. All my players have noticed so they all work hard and want to do well in training and games. This is all I can ask for as a coach, kids want to work hard and get better. I feel that coaches that play players less than half a game or play players only at one position is doing so for their ego and not for the development of their players.
              For the top poster, while I think I agree with you, I might be missing a point of yours or you are not including it. While it is great for a coach to teach how to attack and defend regardless of the position, attacking and defending from the different positions are very different. It is really only when in the forward position do you get the chance to receive and handle the ball in a crowd with you either facing or backing up to the opponents goal. Although the defender may make runs up the side, they are most often transitioning the ball to the offense. For these reasons, I feel strongly that the actual positions on the field should change.

              For the second poster....the 'elite coach'....I have the following two questions:
              1. What club do you coach for and is it the top team in your age group or otherwise?
              2. Why do you stop this thinking at U11? Why not continue to U12, U13....U15? Does winning for you and your club become more important? Is it less crucial for kids to have the varied skills at these latter years?

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                For the top poster, while I think I agree with you, I might be missing a point of yours or you are not including it. While it is great for a coach to teach how to attack and defend regardless of the position, attacking and defending from the different positions are very different. It is really only when in the forward position do you get the chance to receive and handle the ball in a crowd with you either facing or backing up to the opponents goal. Although the defender may make runs up the side, they are most often transitioning the ball to the offense. For these reasons, I feel strongly that the actual positions on the field should change.
                Of course. And I tried to allude to this without getting lost in the weeds. While the technique of individual defending is the same, and pressure, cover and balance is what it is, functionally the striker is going to defend in that role in the attacking third much differently than a center back in the defending third. Similarly, in attack, as you note, the runs players make or the demands for playing facing, half or full turn will be much different depending on the position. I believe this just reinforces the idea that in development, if you stop rotating positions at younger and younger ages, you hinder develop technically and tactically. Likewise, to the extent a coach has the back line of "defenders" standing at halfway as if their job ends at that spot on the field and when they've won possession, again, you hinder development.

                As others have noted, it happens, and I think the reason it happens is because the coach is managing players with the priority being the result of that game rather than the development of soccer players. It's either ego or insecurity or both. The idea that developing players in a way that benefits them the most is somehow mutually exclusive with being competitive is nonsense, but I see it way too much.

                Comment


                  #23
                  My son is U9 and he's a dedicated full time keeper. Who cares?

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    In my opinion, if before (and maybe including) U12 your club isn't rotating positions as part of their approach to player development, then they have no player development. Kids not playing back, mid, forward (and even at keeper) is entirely about the team's results, not the player developing. Good luck with that when they're older, trying out for their high school team, wanting to play on a competitive club team (i.e., actually better than their town team), etc.
                    There is not a club in the world that can truly achieve that paradigm. Parents will fall over themselves in a mass (no pun intended) rush to a different club. It is all about results.
                    A purely developmental model would not have a chance in this country, despite all idyllic thoughts to the contrary.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      As a club elite team club coach I think this is a no brainer. I play players at all positions at U11 and under to include keeper if I do not have a player that is interested in it full-time. I am creating soccer players, not position players. I play all players at least half the game if they come to 80% or more of trainings and games and give 100% effort also. I do not have favorites and I do not put winning ahead of development at this age. I also do not take players out for making mistakes. I think this kills a players confidence and they are less willling to try something new in the future. I do play the players that are playing well that day more than others because they earned the extra playing time. All my players have noticed so they all work hard and want to do well in training and games. This is all I can ask for as a coach, kids want to work hard and get better. I feel that coaches that play players less than half a game or play players only at one position is doing so for their ego and not for the development of their players.
                      You'll be looking for a job soon, mate, especially here in Mass.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        If your son is playing 8v8 and is playing defense it is likely because he is one of the better athletes, as long as his training is well rounded and is encouraged to attack from the back when appropriate don't sweat it. Most defenders at U12 8v8 are elsewhere by 11 v11.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          There is not a club in the world that can truly achieve that paradigm. Parents will fall over themselves in a mass (no pun intended) rush to a different club. It is all about results.
                          A purely developmental model would not have a chance in this country, despite all idyllic thoughts to the contrary.
                          Any review of the posts on t/s about who beat who and who's the best uwhatever team is all you need to know about development in Mass club soccer.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            As you can see, actual experience runs the gamut on this issue. At least you've learned one of the questions you want to ask when considering what team to join down the road. Play time should be equal until high school. Positions should be rotated, unless players have another preference. If the preference can't be accommodated, take turns.

                            Something to keep in mind is, switch coaches or teams, and a players position often changes. So don't get trapped into thinking of a player as a wing or holding mid or whatever.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              OP here.

                              I should probably clarify at this point that I'm not upset in any way with this club and coach or with our own personal playtime. (My son was rarely subbed out.)

                              My main question was aimed at finding out what other clubs/coaches do so I can figure out if this is the norm going forward. (I understand that's sort of an an oxymoron and that there is no norm when it comes to club soccer.)

                              My son does still play town/travel, so if he's rotated through the positions there - problem solved.

                              I've just heard stories, from others, of players getting locked into positions for a season or a year at the club level.

                              It was only 3 games this weekend. Too early to tell. I was just surprised that the coach had these kids play set positions for all 3 games.

                              Offense, defense, defending, attacking; it doesn't matter to me. I want my son to play all the positions at this level. I personally believe it will make him a better player and will most certainly help him become a better keeper.

                              Thanks so much for the responses and great dialog.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                OP here.

                                I should probably clarify at this point that I'm not upset in any way with this club and coach or with our own personal playtime. (My son was rarely subbed out.)

                                My main question was aimed at finding out what other clubs/coaches do so I can figure out if this is the norm going forward. (I understand that's sort of an an oxymoron and that there is no norm when it comes to club soccer.)

                                My son does still play town/travel, so if he's rotated through the positions there - problem solved.

                                I've just heard stories, from others, of players getting locked into positions for a season or a year at the club level.

                                It was only 3 games this weekend. Too early to tell. I was just surprised that the coach had these kids play set positions for all 3 games.

                                Offense, defense, defending, attacking; it doesn't matter to me. I want my son to play all the positions at this level. I personally believe it will make him a better player and will most certainly help him become a better keeper.

                                Thanks so much for the responses and great dialog.
                                Many of the positional decisions, particularly at the early ages, are a request by the player. After a few games and training sessions, the coach may realize that a player might succeed at a differing position and he can implement that.
                                But, if the child, and by extension his/her parents, see him/her as a striker, good luck. They write the cheque.
                                And forget about developing anything. They all just want to win.

                                Comment

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