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College D3: Just need some town soccer and you'll be fine

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    College D3: Just need some town soccer and you'll be fine

    There is a lot of talk on TS on what you DON'T need to play college soccer. You don't need ECNL. You don't really need a good club at all because it all comes down to talent and player desire anyway. And then when you get to D3 the advice we get from our resident guru sets an even lower bar. Some town soccer and some high school play will more than suffice. Anytime anyone questions or disagrees with our resident guru we are told we are doing a horrible disservice to all of the families coming through the ranks, and that almost anything that is counter to what he preaches is "nothing but marketing hype." Just put "nothing but marketing hype" into the TS search function and you will get literally hundreds of his posts. And of course in getting lectured we have to put aside what he actually did in reality, which involved strategically moving one kid around to at least a handful of different clubs, going to showcases, and pushing the recruitment envelope as hard as he could, and then linking the second kid to one of the top clubs in New England, doing ODP all the way to the top, personal fitness trainers, personal GK trainers, District Select, playing up, playing with boys teams, etc, etc.

    But is their another kind of disservice? One that derives from grossly understating what it takes to play college soccer? Let's start with the fact that the majority of good to very good players who play club soccer from roughly age 10 to 17 won't make it to play college soccer, and by definition that means being able to play at a college that the majority of those kids want to attend. And out of the minority left over that do make D3 rosters many of those never really play. A lot of club parents come through the ranks figuring that if their kids can't cut it for D1 then of course they will at least make the grade for D3. And this of course is not true at all. And so it is a major disservice to downplay what it takes to the extent that most end up believing something is a cinch instead of what really is a longshot. And if these same people listened to the guru advice on TS they would believe that that there are hardly any hurdles at all, and that playing a good to high level of club soccer is just unnecessary and a waste of money.

    My own point of view is that club soccer and things like DAP and ECNL and upper-tier non-DAP and non-ECNL aren't critical for the exposure value. I completely agree that in most cases going to some far-flung tournament with the idea of being found by some West Coast school you probably won't attend anyway is not the way to go about selecting a college. What I think does matter is having teammates to train with who are challenging in terms of skill and speed and play...challenging enough to push a kid to his or her maximum potential in terms of his or her own speed of play...and competition that does the same thing. Where that happens, and in what state, etc are not that important. The other thing the club structure does is give you a good gauge about where your kid is at and what levels are reasonable to expect both now and in the future. Forget for a moment whether a kid decides to play for DAP or ECNL. If a kid can't make one of those teams, then medium to high level D1 is probably out of the question. That of course doesn't mean that they have to play for that team just because they can make it, and for those kids, yes, there may be other reasonable paths to a similar or same outcome. The same goes for the better to upper-tier non-DAP and non-ECNL club teams. If you can't make those then there is a very good chance you aren't going to play for a top 50-75 D3 college. You will not play at that level just by playing in high school and showing up in good shape unless you are an extreme, freakish outlier athlete.

    Look at the Boys commitments lists for Mass for the past 4-5 years. Look at the D3 commits and look at where all of the kids played. 90% or more are from DAP clubs and the next 4-5 top non-DAP club teams in the state every year (Blazers, MPS, NEFC, Crusaders, Stars, etc). In the list that gets posted on TS and updated over the course of the year you'll be hard-pressed to find a kid listed who didn't play club.

    Now look at Wheaton's (the other Wheaton in Illinois) incoming frosh class of 7 recruits....3 from DAP (one of whom is a D1 transfer from perennial powerhouse Creighton), 1 who is a HS All-American and national player of the year, and the other 3 with very strong club and high school credentials. They are NOT your pedestrian high school players.

    http://athletics.wheaton.edu/news/20...528144257.aspx

    Anyone who listens to the guru advice here and takes it literally is going to find himself bitterly disappointed.

    #2
    D3 athletes are just wasting their time. The only reason most do it now is to appease mommy and daddy who spent thousands supporting their middle school sports dreams

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      D3 athletes are just wasting their time. The only reason most do it now is to appease mommy and daddy who spent thousands supporting their middle school sports dreams
      What a thoughtful response.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        D3 athletes are just wasting their time. The only reason most do it now is to appease mommy and daddy who spent thousands supporting their middle school sports dreams
        top D3 > middle D1

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          top D3 > middle D1
          Pure myth. Nonsense.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Pure myth. Nonsense.
            And yet 100% true. Even without the 11 month schedule. Because the talent differential is too high to be overcome by working out.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              And yet 100% true. Even without the 11 month schedule. Because the talent differential is too high to be overcome by working out.
              Ok. So all of these supremely talented soccer players turn down D1 offers to go to overpriced D3 schools. Sure, sure they do.

              Please do not operate any heavy machinery tonight.

              What is next...Nescac is more exclusive than the Ivies?

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                Ok. So all of these supremely talented soccer players turn down D1 offers to go to overpriced D3 schools. Sure, sure they do.

                Please do not operate any heavy machinery tonight.

                What is next...Nescac is more exclusive than the Ivies?
                Not unless you consider the Flying Spur heavy machinery. Why would I let my kid work full-time in college when it's not necessary? Better soccer, better school, better experience. What am I missing?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  There is a lot of talk on TS on what you DON'T need to play college soccer. You don't need ECNL. You don't really need a good club at all because it all comes down to talent and player desire anyway. And then when you get to D3 the advice we get from our resident guru sets an even lower bar. Some town soccer and some high school play will more than suffice. Anytime anyone questions or disagrees with our resident guru we are told we are doing a horrible disservice to all of the families coming through the ranks, and that almost anything that is counter to what he preaches is "nothing but marketing hype." Just put "nothing but marketing hype" into the TS search function and you will get literally hundreds of his posts. And of course in getting lectured we have to put aside what he actually did in reality, which involved strategically moving one kid around to at least a handful of different clubs, going to showcases, and pushing the recruitment envelope as hard as he could, and then linking the second kid to one of the top clubs in New England, doing ODP all the way to the top, personal fitness trainers, personal GK trainers, District Select, playing up, playing with boys teams, etc, etc.

                  But is their another kind of disservice? One that derives from grossly understating what it takes to play college soccer? Let's start with the fact that the majority of good to very good players who play club soccer from roughly age 10 to 17 won't make it to play college soccer, and by definition that means being able to play at a college that the majority of those kids want to attend. And out of the minority left over that do make D3 rosters many of those never really play. A lot of club parents come through the ranks figuring that if their kids can't cut it for D1 then of course they will at least make the grade for D3. And this of course is not true at all. And so it is a major disservice to downplay what it takes to the extent that most end up believing something is a cinch instead of what really is a longshot. And if these same people listened to the guru advice on TS they would believe that that there are hardly any hurdles at all, and that playing a good to high level of club soccer is just unnecessary and a waste of money.

                  My own point of view is that club soccer and things like DAP and ECNL and upper-tier non-DAP and non-ECNL aren't critical for the exposure value. I completely agree that in most cases going to some far-flung tournament with the idea of being found by some West Coast school you probably won't attend anyway is not the way to go about selecting a college. What I think does matter is having teammates to train with who are challenging in terms of skill and speed and play...challenging enough to push a kid to his or her maximum potential in terms of his or her own speed of play...and competition that does the same thing. Where that happens, and in what state, etc are not that important. The other thing the club structure does is give you a good gauge about where your kid is at and what levels are reasonable to expect both now and in the future. Forget for a moment whether a kid decides to play for DAP or ECNL. If a kid can't make one of those teams, then medium to high level D1 is probably out of the question. That of course doesn't mean that they have to play for that team just because they can make it, and for those kids, yes, there may be other reasonable paths to a similar or same outcome. The same goes for the better to upper-tier non-DAP and non-ECNL club teams. If you can't make those then there is a very good chance you aren't going to play for a top 50-75 D3 college. You will not play at that level just by playing in high school and showing up in good shape unless you are an extreme, freakish outlier athlete.

                  Look at the Boys commitments lists for Mass for the past 4-5 years. Look at the D3 commits and look at where all of the kids played. 90% or more are from DAP clubs and the next 4-5 top non-DAP club teams in the state every year (Blazers, MPS, NEFC, Crusaders, Stars, etc). In the list that gets posted on TS and updated over the course of the year you'll be hard-pressed to find a kid listed who didn't play club.

                  Now look at Wheaton's (the other Wheaton in Illinois) incoming frosh class of 7 recruits....3 from DAP (one of whom is a D1 transfer from perennial powerhouse Creighton), 1 who is a HS All-American and national player of the year, and the other 3 with very strong club and high school credentials. They are NOT your pedestrian high school players.

                  http://athletics.wheaton.edu/news/20...528144257.aspx

                  Anyone who listens to the guru advice here and takes it literally is going to find himself bitterly disappointed.
                  What a freaking clown. All hail the academic d3, where sports are just as relevant as the chess club. But hey if you want to spend a fortune pretending your kid is getting an education (seriously Wheaton??) after spending a fortune on youth sports well knock yourself our.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    There is a lot of talk on TS on what you DON'T need to play college soccer. You don't need ECNL. You don't really need a good club at all because it all comes down to talent and player desire anyway. And then when you get to D3 the advice we get from our resident guru sets an even lower bar. Some town soccer and some high school play will more than suffice. Anytime anyone questions or disagrees with our resident guru we are told we are doing a horrible disservice to all of the families coming through the ranks, and that almost anything that is counter to what he preaches is "nothing but marketing hype." Just put "nothing but marketing hype" into the TS search function and you will get literally hundreds of his posts. And of course in getting lectured we have to put aside what he actually did in reality, which involved strategically moving one kid around to at least a handful of different clubs, going to showcases, and pushing the recruitment envelope as hard as he could, and then linking the second kid to one of the top clubs in New England, doing ODP all the way to the top, personal fitness trainers, personal GK trainers, District Select, playing up, playing with boys teams, etc, etc.

                    But is their another kind of disservice? One that derives from grossly understating what it takes to play college soccer? Let's start with the fact that the majority of good to very good players who play club soccer from roughly age 10 to 17 won't make it to play college soccer, and by definition that means being able to play at a college that the majority of those kids want to attend. And out of the minority left over that do make D3 rosters many of those never really play. A lot of club parents come through the ranks figuring that if their kids can't cut it for D1 then of course they will at least make the grade for D3. And this of course is not true at all. And so it is a major disservice to downplay what it takes to the extent that most end up believing something is a cinch instead of what really is a longshot. And if these same people listened to the guru advice on TS they would believe that that there are hardly any hurdles at all, and that playing a good to high level of club soccer is just unnecessary and a waste of money.

                    My own point of view is that club soccer and things like DAP and ECNL and upper-tier non-DAP and non-ECNL aren't critical for the exposure value. I completely agree that in most cases going to some far-flung tournament with the idea of being found by some West Coast school you probably won't attend anyway is not the way to go about selecting a college. What I think does matter is having teammates to train with who are challenging in terms of skill and speed and play...challenging enough to push a kid to his or her maximum potential in terms of his or her own speed of play...and competition that does the same thing. Where that happens, and in what state, etc are not that important. The other thing the club structure does is give you a good gauge about where your kid is at and what levels are reasonable to expect both now and in the future. Forget for a moment whether a kid decides to play for DAP or ECNL. If a kid can't make one of those teams, then medium to high level D1 is probably out of the question. That of course doesn't mean that they have to play for that team just because they can make it, and for those kids, yes, there may be other reasonable paths to a similar or same outcome. The same goes for the better to upper-tier non-DAP and non-ECNL club teams. If you can't make those then there is a very good chance you aren't going to play for a top 50-75 D3 college. You will not play at that level just by playing in high school and showing up in good shape unless you are an extreme, freakish outlier athlete.

                    Look at the Boys commitments lists for Mass for the past 4-5 years. Look at the D3 commits and look at where all of the kids played. 90% or more are from DAP clubs and the next 4-5 top non-DAP club teams in the state every year (Blazers, MPS, NEFC, Crusaders, Stars, etc). In the list that gets posted on TS and updated over the course of the year you'll be hard-pressed to find a kid listed who didn't play club.

                    Now look at Wheaton's (the other Wheaton in Illinois) incoming frosh class of 7 recruits....3 from DAP (one of whom is a D1 transfer from perennial powerhouse Creighton), 1 who is a HS All-American and national player of the year, and the other 3 with very strong club and high school credentials. They are NOT your pedestrian high school players.

                    http://athletics.wheaton.edu/news/20...528144257.aspx

                    Anyone who listens to the guru advice here and takes it literally is going to find himself bitterly disappointed.
                    http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/a...DXS1qzr8q6.gif

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      There is a lot of talk on TS on what you DON'T need to play college soccer. You don't need ECNL. You don't really need a good club at all because it all comes down to talent and player desire anyway. And then when you get to D3 the advice we get from our resident guru sets an even lower bar. Some town soccer and some high school play will more than suffice. Anytime anyone questions or disagrees with our resident guru we are told we are doing a horrible disservice to all of the families coming through the ranks, and that almost anything that is counter to what he preaches is "nothing but marketing hype." Just put "nothing but marketing hype" into the TS search function and you will get literally hundreds of his posts. And of course in getting lectured we have to put aside what he actually did in reality, which involved strategically moving one kid around to at least a handful of different clubs, going to showcases, and pushing the recruitment envelope as hard as he could, and then linking the second kid to one of the top clubs in New England, doing ODP all the way to the top, personal fitness trainers, personal GK trainers, District Select, playing up, playing with boys teams, etc, etc.

                      But is their another kind of disservice? One that derives from grossly understating what it takes to play college soccer? Let's start with the fact that the majority of good to very good players who play club soccer from roughly age 10 to 17 won't make it to play college soccer, and by definition that means being able to play at a college that the majority of those kids want to attend. And out of the minority left over that do make D3 rosters many of those never really play. A lot of club parents come through the ranks figuring that if their kids can't cut it for D1 then of course they will at least make the grade for D3. And this of course is not true at all. And so it is a major disservice to downplay what it takes to the extent that most end up believing something is a cinch instead of what really is a longshot. And if these same people listened to the guru advice on TS they would believe that that there are hardly any hurdles at all, and that playing a good to high level of club soccer is just unnecessary and a waste of money.

                      My own point of view is that club soccer and things like DAP and ECNL and upper-tier non-DAP and non-ECNL aren't critical for the exposure value. I completely agree that in most cases going to some far-flung tournament with the idea of being found by some West Coast school you probably won't attend anyway is not the way to go about selecting a college. What I think does matter is having teammates to train with who are challenging in terms of skill and speed and play...challenging enough to push a kid to his or her maximum potential in terms of his or her own speed of play...and competition that does the same thing. Where that happens, and in what state, etc are not that important. The other thing the club structure does is give you a good gauge about where your kid is at and what levels are reasonable to expect both now and in the future. Forget for a moment whether a kid decides to play for DAP or ECNL. If a kid can't make one of those teams, then medium to high level D1 is probably out of the question. That of course doesn't mean that they have to play for that team just because they can make it, and for those kids, yes, there may be other reasonable paths to a similar or same outcome. The same goes for the better to upper-tier non-DAP and non-ECNL club teams. If you can't make those then there is a very good chance you aren't going to play for a top 50-75 D3 college. You will not play at that level just by playing in high school and showing up in good shape unless you are an extreme, freakish outlier athlete.

                      Look at the Boys commitments lists for Mass for the past 4-5 years. Look at the D3 commits and look at where all of the kids played. 90% or more are from DAP clubs and the next 4-5 top non-DAP club teams in the state every year (Blazers, MPS, NEFC, Crusaders, Stars, etc). In the list that gets posted on TS and updated over the course of the year you'll be hard-pressed to find a kid listed who didn't play club.

                      Now look at Wheaton's (the other Wheaton in Illinois) incoming frosh class of 7 recruits....3 from DAP (one of whom is a D1 transfer from perennial powerhouse Creighton), 1 who is a HS All-American and national player of the year, and the other 3 with very strong club and high school credentials. They are NOT your pedestrian high school players.

                      http://athletics.wheaton.edu/news/20...528144257.aspx

                      Anyone who listens to the guru advice here and takes it literally is going to find himself bitterly disappointed.

                      D3 athletes are just wasting their time. The only reason most do it now is to appease mommy and daddy who spent thousands supporting their middle school sports dreams

                      Wow. I am not sure where to take this. This last paragraph, by a poster not the OP, is extremely obnoxious, arrogant, and moronic. D3 athletes are 'wasting their time'. Wasting their time with what? Having a great time, competing, maintaining condition, being part of an immediate social group?

                      As for the larger comment, I assume that your general message is that, in today's world, the great majority (>90%) of college players (all divisions) play club soccer. The comment regarding how dominant the DAP or ECNL is over non DAP and non ECNL teams is not uniformly found. GPS and Blazer boys have each placed more than 5 from each year into division 1 schools. This comparable to the DAP teams, the Bolts of which have placed 6 in the 2014 class, but 4 are going to Northeastern which is were the Bolts DOC coaches. How different is this?

                      Finally, as to the quality of D3 schools, this is where I see soccer improving in this country. Although I don't think that the top DIII school will beat Maryland, I do believe that the top tier D3 schools will give middle to lower D1 schools a good game and win 50%.

                      Lastly, I ask........any opinion about the D2 schools??

                      Comment


                        #12
                        The next clown speaks. Who gives a rats ass what YOU think. You're just a self indulgent bore! D3 sports are for the pretenders who like to wear the uniform but not out the work in.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          It's tough to calculate the overlap across divisions when the only time they compete with each other is in spring friendly matches. My guess is that the top 50-75 D3 teams can compete well with the bottom 10-15% of D1 teams and that the top 10 D3 teams can compete well with the bottom 40% of D3. It doesn't really matter, though, as players tend to go where they get the combination of school and soccer that they perceive as best matching their goals and interests.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            The next clown speaks. Who gives a rats ass what YOU think. You're just a self indulgent bore! D3 sports are for the pretenders who like to wear the uniform but not out the work in.
                            You're letting the alcohol get the best of you.

                            So basically no one should play college soccer. If you go D1 even with a full ride and you view college soccer solely in terms of a payoff you can never make up the difference from the 100K spent on soccer plus the 200K on the ISL, and you can't get a real education because you have to focus on your "job" and take fake college courses. If you go D3 you are basically participating on the chess club and paying a ton of money to do so. Just a few months ago a famous NEFC poster was touting the NEFC list compared to Stars for placing so many in D3 where the "fit" was right and the players were playing more than the players from another club who went D1.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              The next clown speaks. Who gives a rats ass what YOU think. You're just a self indulgent bore! D3 sports are for the pretenders who like to wear the uniform but not out the work in.
                              http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n...image00100.jpg

                              Comment

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