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Guide to the NESCACs (or I gotta fever for more NESCAC)

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    #16
    Here are the NESCAC Soccer rankings based on the last 4 year conference finishes:

    Williams 1.7 average place finished
    Amherst 2.0
    Middlebury 3.7
    Tufts 4.0
    Bowdoin 4.7
    Trinity 6.0
    Wesleyan 7.0
    Colby 7.5
    Bates 8.2
    Conn Col 9.0

    Just like the academic excellence varies top to bottom, the quality of soccer is very diverse as well. As our daughter is in the recruiting cycle and is a D3 kid, we have seen a fair amount of D3 games the last 2 years, including most of the NESCACs. Amherst and Williams typically have 2-3 kids that are real players--talent worthy of D1. These teams are outstanding with speed and size and the 15th kid on these rosters is still a very solid player. Saw Middlebury as well and maybe caught them on a bad day but really saw a dropoff from that team's talent versus the top 2. We saw Tufts last year and were very impressed with the talent and style of play. Our sense is the bottom half of the NESCAC, from a soccer perspective, is comprised of rosters of kids who are very solid soccer players but lets say to make those teams, you don't need ODP and top level club soccer experience. In fact, the bottom 4 on the list above are teams that in some cases are just basically a continuation of high school soccer. Not a rip on the institutions' academic credentials just from a soccer perspective, the quality of play is not that good.

    Comment


      #17
      The following information is provided by the deans and directors of admission at NESCAC colleges to help prospective student athletes understand some of the factors involved in admission decisions at our institutions.


      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Goals

      All NESCAC member colleges enroll students who will enhance and enjoy the intellectual, social, and extracurricular communities our campuses provide. We seek students who are interested in the wide range of rigorous intellectual experiences offered, and value the role that extra-curricular activities, such as music, debate, theater, political action, and athletics, play on campus. In addition, NESCAC member colleges are committed to racial, ethnic, socio-economic, and geographical diversity.




      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Differences in Evaluation
      Despite our common goals in creating a campus community, the ways by which NESCAC colleges recruit, admit, and enroll students vary both by institution and over time. Each NESCAC member college maintains its own set of practices to select a class. Differences are reflected in how applications are read, which application materials are weighed most heavily, and even what information is used in the selection process.




      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Standardized Tests

      NESCAC member colleges vary in terms of which standardized tests, if any, are required of applicants, and how the results are evaluated. It is important to understand and fulfill the specific requirements of each NESCAC school to which you apply.




      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Institutional Priorities

      In any given year, NESCAC member colleges will have institution-specific goals for the incoming class, goals such as increasing the number of majors in a particular discipline, adding diversity, or creating gender balance.




      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Financial Aid Considerations

      Some NESCAC colleges are completely ‘need-blind’ in their admission practices, making all decisions without regard to the amount of financial assistance a student may require. Others are ‘need-sensitive’ in the selection process, factoring student aid needs into some of their decisions. Some NESCAC colleges award financial aid strictly on the basis of financial need and pledge to meet each student’s demonstrated financial need. Others award a variety of merit-based scholarships based on their evaluation of a student’s academic accomplishment and potential. No NESCAC college, as a NCAA Division III member, offers athletic scholarships of any kind.



      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      The Coach’s Role


      While admission decisions are made exclusively by the admission committee, the coach’s assessment of the athletic ability and potential contribution of each candidate is considered. Be aware that coaches at different colleges may evaluate the same student-athlete’s ability differently. Positional considerations may also lead to different assessments of an applicant’s value to a team.



      It is important to remember that this is a college admission process with an athletic component, not an athletic recruiting process that comes with the opportunity to attend college. NESCAC coaches actively identify and recruit student-athletes and act as advocates for them; but no coach at any NESCAC college has the authority to offer, promise, or otherwise guarantee a spot in the incoming class to any recruited student-athlete.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        Here are the NESCAC Soccer rankings based on the last 4 year conference finishes:

        Williams 1.7 average place finished
        Amherst 2.0
        Middlebury 3.7
        Tufts 4.0
        Bowdoin 4.7
        Trinity 6.0
        Wesleyan 7.0
        Colby 7.5
        Bates 8.2
        Conn Col 9.0

        Just like the academic excellence varies top to bottom, the quality of soccer is very diverse as well. As our daughter is in the recruiting cycle and is a D3 kid, we have seen a fair amount of D3 games the last 2 years, including most of the NESCACs. Amherst and Williams typically have 2-3 kids that are real players--talent worthy of D1. These teams are outstanding with speed and size and the 15th kid on these rosters is still a very solid player. Saw Middlebury as well and maybe caught them on a bad day but really saw a dropoff from that team's talent versus the top 2. We saw Tufts last year and were very impressed with the talent and style of play. Our sense is the bottom half of the NESCAC, from a soccer perspective, is comprised of rosters of kids who are very solid soccer players but lets say to make those teams, you don't need ODP and top level club soccer experience. In fact, the bottom 4 on the list above are teams that in some cases are just basically a continuation of high school soccer. Not a rip on the institutions' academic credentials just from a soccer perspective, the quality of play is not that good.

        Nicely done. Thanks for posting.

        Tufts was only .500 in the NESCAC, did they under perform? Sounds like you would have expected them to do better. Similarly, Middlebury was the NESCAC finalist (beating Amherst in the semis) and did they just get lucky?

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          Nicely done. Thanks for posting.

          Tufts was only .500 in the NESCAC, did they under perform? Sounds like you would have expected them to do better. Similarly, Middlebury was the NESCAC finalist (beating Amherst in the semis) and did they just get lucky?
          My daughter plays for Williams, and Middlebury was the toughest team we faced (twice) before losing to TCNJ in the NCAAs, and the only reason I think TCNJ was better than Middlebury was because of TCNJ's goalie, who was phenomenal.

          Comment


            #20
            A very informative original post. I'd offer a couple of thoughts in response:

            1. I think that the biggest LAC competitor to Williams/Amherst is Swarthmore. It's presently ranked #3 by US News and has (I believe) been ranked #1 in the past. It is well-resourced, located in a Philadelphia suburb similar to Newton or Brookline, and has the deserved reputation of being more intellectual (and therefore less jock-oriented) than Williams or Amherst.

            2. If one is considering university alternatives to small LACs like Washington U or Emory, I'd include MIT. It's a school at the very top of the academic pecking order. For all that a Williams or Amherst degree means, an MIT degree says even more about the raw brain power of the graduate. Yes, the school is not for everyone, but I'd put it in the mix if I had a kid looking for a D3 sports/school experience.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by dd2 View Post
              A very informative original post. I'd offer a couple of thoughts in response:

              1. I think that the biggest LAC competitor to Williams/Amherst is Swarthmore. It's presently ranked #3 by US News and has (I believe) been ranked #1 in the past. It is well-resourced, located in a Philadelphia suburb similar to Newton or Brookline, and has the deserved reputation of being more intellectual (and therefore less jock-oriented) than Williams or Amherst.

              2. If one is considering university alternatives to small LACs like Washington U or Emory, I'd include MIT. It's a school at the very top of the academic pecking order. For all that a Williams or Amherst degree means, an MIT degree says even more about the raw brain power of the graduate. Yes, the school is not for everyone, but I'd put it in the mix if I had a kid looking for a D3 sports/school experience.
              OP here. Should have included an MIT reference in original post. I wasn't thinking so much in terms of athletics but in that case you are correct. I personally view MIT as more of a specialty school that competes on an equal footing with Harvard, Yale, and Stanford. In general I don't think of MIT as a big overlap for the NESCACs, although this may be more true if factoring in athletics. I didn't highlight Wellesley more for similar reasons and all-girls status.

              I realize Swarthmore has had a stranglehold on the #3 slot for it seems forever. At the risk of overgeneralizing, I view Swarthmore trending towards a somewhat different type of kid than the Williams/Amherst pool. So rankings-wise, it is with them, but I see its comparables as more the Wesleyans and Chicagos. I actually think the closest comparables and biggest threats to Amherst and Williams are "in-house" -- Bowdoin and Middlebury (and Dartmouth), although it's hard to imagine either of the top 2 actually being dislodged.

              Comment


                #22
                Since when is MIT considered a LAC?

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  Since when is MIT considered a LAC?
                  That's partly why I didn't feature MIT originally, but I think dd2 is thinking of it because of D3 athletics, and since this is a soccer forum, soccer players looking at the D3 level might take a look.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    US News rankings of LACs will be updated in a few weeks but currently, 4 NESCACs in the top 10, 8 in the top 25, lowest school (Conn College) is #42.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      Here are the NESCAC Soccer rankings based on the last 4 year conference finishes:

                      Williams 1.7 average place finished
                      Amherst 2.0
                      Middlebury 3.7
                      Tufts 4.0
                      Bowdoin 4.7
                      Trinity 6.0
                      Wesleyan 7.0
                      Colby 7.5
                      Bates 8.2
                      Conn Col 9.0

                      Just like the academic excellence varies top to bottom, the quality of soccer is very diverse as well. As our daughter is in the recruiting cycle and is a D3 kid, we have seen a fair amount of D3 games the last 2 years, including most of the NESCACs. Amherst and Williams typically have 2-3 kids that are real players--talent worthy of D1. These teams are outstanding with speed and size and the 15th kid on these rosters is still a very solid player. Saw Middlebury as well and maybe caught them on a bad day but really saw a dropoff from that team's talent versus the top 2. We saw Tufts last year and were very impressed with the talent and style of play. Our sense is the bottom half of the NESCAC, from a soccer perspective, is comprised of rosters of kids who are very solid soccer players but lets say to make those teams, you don't need ODP and top level club soccer experience. In fact, the bottom 4 on the list above are teams that in some cases are just basically a continuation of high school soccer. Not a rip on the institutions' academic credentials just from a soccer perspective, the quality of play is not that good.
                      Thanks for the data. So based on this and a later poster who said Middlebury is the real deal, can someone generally classify/characterize the type of players who make these teams? As the poster who put the data out there said, the Big 2 have D1-level players---is that so?

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        Thanks for the data. So based on this and a later poster who said Middlebury is the real deal, can someone generally classify/characterize the type of players who make these teams? As the poster who put the data out there said, the Big 2 have D1-level players---is that so?
                        "D1-level layers" covers quite a broad specturm. A LOT of players on these top NESCAC teams could easily play at a D1 school. Don't assume that it was a lack of soccer skill that made them choose a LAC. Conversely, there are plenty of D1 players who would not see the field at a D3 school.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Just look at a few recent examples.

                          On3's daughter was the captain of the Stars team that won ~5 SC titles in a row. She is a former regional player and was a standout at L-S HS. She is beginning Amherst this fall.

                          Similarly, although not as well publicized on this board are kids from Rovers, etc. A lot of these kids were starters for their club teams while bench players on the same team ended up going to D1 schools.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            Just look at a few recent examples.

                            On3's daughter was the captain of the Stars team that won ~5 SC titles in a row. She is a former regional player and was a standout at L-S HS. She is beginning Amherst this fall.

                            Similarly, although not as well publicized on this board are kids from Rovers, etc. A lot of these kids were starters for their club teams while bench players on the same team ended up going to D1 schools.
                            And she's tiny and flops a lot. Never would physically make it at a serious D1 and wasn't recruited at those levels for that reason. Unlikely she'll play much at Amherst. Good skills but not strong enough to handle the middle.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              And she's tiny and flops a lot. Never would physically make it at a serious D1 and wasn't recruited at those levels for that reason. Unlikely she'll play much at Amherst. Good skills but not strong enough to handle the middle.
                              This is so unnecessary. It's wrong to be taking shots at kids in general. But it's really wrong to pick on the ones you know who are known through some identity on this forum. Most of the rest of us aren't having our kids evaluated and picked apart on a soccer board (mostly by people who have no idea what they are talking about and no evaluative credentials). What, you've got some grudge and can't deal with this young woman going to one of the finest schools in the country?

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                This is so unnecessary. It's wrong to be taking shots at kids in general. But it's really wrong to pick on the ones you know who are known through some identity on this forum. Most of the rest of us aren't having our kids evaluated and picked apart on a soccer board (mostly by people who have no idea what they are talking about and no evaluative credentials). What, you've got some grudge and can't deal with this young woman going to one of the finest schools in the country?
                                You make no sense. Nobody attacked the finest school in the country. Someone suggested that top potential D1 players are going NESCAC. The person responded that it wasn't true. I agree that a top D1 recruit rarely goes NESCAC. The person was trying to provide some more background about why. Seems fair.

                                Comment

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