enforcing the rules

[Unregistered]

So I am curious as to what folks see across the area with regards to referees enforcing the rules of the game properly, especially at the younger ages (10-12). It just seems often that the refs take the old "kids will be kids" approach too often in the games I watch but I saw a refreshing change this past weekend. In the U11 game before my son played, a player was clearly extending his arms and pushing down players from behind repeatedly. The referee told him he couldnt do that and the kid first game him the "who me" look. Kid did it again and ref called the foul and told him he would be carded if he did it again because he was hurting kids on the other team. Of course he did it again and got a yellow card. Then he did it again and the ref went over to the coach and told him to get him off the field for a while because he was going to get ejected. I write this only because I see this sort of play regularly and the refs seems to keep their whistles in their pockets at the younger ages, so kids sometimes get hurt and I dont think they gain respect for the rules. Do others see this at the young ages or have I just seen a lot of games with refs that either dont know the rules or are reluctant to make the calls. Please note this is not attempt to bash refs but rather to understand how the games are generally called for the younger kids. Thanks

[Unregistered]

So I am curious as to what folks see across the area with regards to referees enforcing the rules of the game properly, especially at the younger ages (10-12). It just seems often that the refs take the old "kids will be kids" approach too often in the games I watch but I saw a refreshing change this past weekend. In the U11 game before my son played, a player was clearly extending his arms and pushing down players from behind repeatedly. The referee told him he couldnt do that and the kid first game him the "who me" look. Kid did it again and ref called the foul and told him he would be carded if he did it again because he was hurting kids on the other team. Of course he did it again and got a yellow card. Then he did it again and the ref went over to the coach and told him to get him off the field for a while because he was going to get ejected. I write this only because I see this sort of play regularly and the refs seems to keep their whistles in their pockets at the younger ages, so kids sometimes get hurt and I dont think they gain respect for the rules. Do others see this at the young ages or have I just seen a lot of games with refs that either dont know the rules or are reluctant to make the calls. Please note this is not attempt to bash refs but rather to understand how the games are generally called for the younger kids. Thanks

Folks, we need to let this go.
These personal posts about referees at u-little are useless; they serve no purpose other than letting some helicopter vent.
There are few enough referees to begin with. If we keep up with the constant bashing on sidelines and forums, we will chase any existing or potential refs into extinction.
The younger ages are training grounds for player and referee alike: mistakes will be made and that is the intent, like it or not.
I have been coaching for 25 years and rarely seen the type of behavior described above at youth level.
At high school and older age club ball, there are matches where play degenerates into melees, but that is a different subject.
But unless we nurture the new refs, treat the old ones with respect and just plain accept the mistakes, there will be no experienced refs to manage the older ages. Games will be self-refereed.
This is not conjecture, but a prophesy that will ultimately come to fruition. Mark my words.

[Unregistered]

Folks, we need to let this go.
These personal posts about referees at u-little are useless; they serve no purpose other than letting some helicopter vent.
There are few enough referees to begin with. If we keep up with the constant bashing on sidelines and forums, we will chase any existing or potential refs into extinction.
The younger ages are training grounds for player and referee alike: mistakes will be made and that is the intent, like it or not.
I have been coaching for 25 years and rarely seen the type of behavior described above at youth level.
At high school and older age club ball, there are matches where play degenerates into melees, but that is a different subject.
But unless we nurture the new refs, treat the old ones with respect and just plain accept the mistakes, there will be no experienced refs to manage the older ages. Games will be self-refereed.
This is not conjecture, but a prophesy that will ultimately come to fruition. Mark my words.

Completely agree that the reffing topic and refs themselves have been sufficiently bashed. But I took the post to be complimentary for a change - someone actually enforcing the rules. Last year a parent on one of my kids' teams was calmly and respectfully asking a ref about a rule because he (and all of us) thought a game was getting out of control. All we wanted was our kids to learn the rules since the were ELEVEN at the time. Instead the entire ref team threatened to toss the parent off the field. The kids saw it all and what they learned was to never ask a question rather than learn the rules.

Two of my kids ref. I know how hard it is. Luckily mine are pretty thick skinned and haven't had too much craziness. When I can I make a point of complimenting young refs who do a good job. We'll never get experienced adult refs everyone is calling for it kids keep dropping out of the system

[Unregistered]

So I am curious as to what folks see across the area with regards to referees enforcing the rules of the game properly, especially at the younger ages (10-12). It just seems often that the refs take the old "kids will be kids" approach too often in the games I watch but I saw a refreshing change this past weekend. In the U11 game before my son played, a player was clearly extending his arms and pushing down players from behind repeatedly. The referee told him he couldnt do that and the kid first game him the "who me" look. Kid did it again and ref called the foul and told him he would be carded if he did it again because he was hurting kids on the other team. Of course he did it again and got a yellow card. Then he did it again and the ref went over to the coach and told him to get him off the field for a while because he was going to get ejected. I write this only because I see this sort of play regularly and the refs seems to keep their whistles in their pockets at the younger ages, so kids sometimes get hurt and I dont think they gain respect for the rules. Do others see this at the young ages or have I just seen a lot of games with refs that either dont know the rules or are reluctant to make the calls. Please note this is not attempt to bash refs but rather to understand how the games are generally called for the younger kids. Thanks

From my experience I honestly haven't seen much intentional harming at that age. I have seen a few penalties called but for unintentional tripping, etc... But I agree, if it is blatent and continuous the ref needs to call it. Kids need to learn to follow rules. We cannot keep coddling them and letting them run the show.

[Unregistered]

It's a fine line, however. I agree with the overall point, but if you have a ref who calls every infraction, there is no flow to the game and it's just 50 minutes of restarts. I've seen it, and it was awful.

Was she right in every call? Probably. But, at some point, the inadvertent tripping and pushing has to be given some leeway or the kids don't learn anything at all.

[Unregistered]

There's a ton of crowing from the sidelines from helicopter parents. Not all contact is illegal.

That being said, extending the arm is illegal. A simple escalation of warnings is warranted and the way things were handled seems textbook.

I'm for enforcing the rules as long as it's done uniformly and consistently. Sometimes you need to keep the whistle in your pocket for the good of the game as well.

[Unregistered]

There's a ton of crowing from the sidelines from helicopter parents. Not all contact is illegal.

That being said, extending the arm is illegal. A simple escalation of warnings is warranted and the way things were handled seems textbook.

I'm for enforcing the rules as long as it's done uniformly and consistently. Sometimes you need to keep the whistle in your pocket for the good of the game as well.

What I've seen - probably all of us - is if a ref makes it clear early on that they will be making calls then players get it and play within the rules. Let it get a little too rough for too long and it becomes more difficult to reign it back in.

I do wish more refs would explain the calls to the younger kids. Often times they just blow the whistle and only a few experienced adults know the reason why.

[Unregistered]

What I've seen - probably all of us - is if a ref makes it clear early on that they will be making calls then players get it and play within the rules. Let it get a little too rough for too long and it becomes more difficult to reign it back in.

I do wish more refs would explain the calls to the younger kids. Often times they just blow the whistle and only a few experienced adults know the reason why.

I see very little of this type of thing in games I have called. Some younger players develop a habit of extending their arms as a protection measure. You let it go for a while - talk to the player - and then call it if it remains necessary. Rarely at the younger ages is it malicious.

- Cujo

[Unregistered]

My daughter has a horrible habit of using her arms too much. She's tall for her age, so it looks even worse. I tell her you can use your arms, but once there's "daylight" it's up too much (instruction from my friend who is an NCAA ref). You can establish your own space and work within normal movements. Some refs don't get that. But...she takes it overboard and gets called a lot. Her coach takes the attitude, though, to "do what you can, and once the ref calls you that are establishing what they will allow. Then, you reel it in to how they are going to call the game".

[Unregistered]

Completely agree that the reffing topic and refs themselves have been sufficiently bashed. But I took the post to be complimentary for a change - someone actually enforcing the rules. Last year a parent on one of my kids' teams was calmly and respectfully asking a ref about a rule because he (and all of us) thought a game was getting out of control. All we wanted was our kids to learn the rules since the were ELEVEN at the time. Instead the entire ref team threatened to toss the parent off the field. The kids saw it all and what they learned was to never ask a question rather than learn the rules.

Two of my kids ref. I know how hard it is. Luckily mine are pretty thick skinned and haven't had too much craziness. When I can I make a point of complimenting young refs who do a good job. We'll never get experienced adult refs everyone is calling for it kids keep dropping out of the system

Spot on.

The initial post was fair.

I agree with the points relating to respecting referees at the field, any age, and the attrition impact because parents don't. But what the 2nd post gets wrong, as is often the case on TS, is that respecting refs at the field and discussing away from the field how their participation in the game can improve aren't mutually exclusive.

[Unregistered]

It's a fine line, however. I agree with the overall point, but if you have a ref who calls every infraction, there is no flow to the game and it's just 50 minutes of restarts. I've seen it, and it was awful.

Was she right in every call? Probably. But, at some point, the inadvertent tripping and pushing has to be given some leeway or the kids don't learn anything at all.

No, keep calling it and issue cards as necessary. The coaches and kids will get tired of all of the restarts and adapt. I've seen too many youth sports where the coaching philosophy is "push the envelope with physicality because the refs will never call them all." If my kid complains to me about too many stoppages of play, I simply say "Then don't commit infractions, and don't sit around and do nothing if you have a player on your team who can't control themselves."

[Unregistered]

No, keep calling it and issue cards as necessary. The coaches and kids will get tired of all of the restarts and adapt. I've seen too many youth sports where the coaching philosophy is "push the envelope with physicality because the refs will never call them all." If my kid complains to me about too many stoppages of play, I simply say "Then don't commit infractions, and don't sit around and do nothing if you have a player on your team who can't control themselves."

No way at U11 should a 50 minute game have over 100 infractions called. I saw more infractions called that game than in the other 5 games played in over the weekend COMBINED.

What did they learn from that?

[Unregistered]

No way at U11 should a 50 minute game have over 100 infractions called. I saw more infractions called that game than in the other 5 games played in over the weekend COMBINED.

What did they learn from that?

I should clarify my post. While all were most likely technically files by the strict letter of the law, a vast majority of them were inadvertent. Two kids tripping over each other, a bigger kid knocking a smaller kid over (not necessarily a foul, just physics), etc. By whistling every piece of contact, that doesn't teach the kids anything. Soccer is a contact sport, and needs to be played that way.

[Unregistered]

I should clarify my post. While all were most likely technically files by the strict letter of the law, a vast majority of them were inadvertent. Two kids tripping over each other, a bigger kid knocking a smaller kid over (not necessarily a foul, just physics), etc. By whistling every piece of contact, that doesn't teach the kids anything. Soccer is a contact sport, and needs to be played that way.

Now you're describing a situation where the ref maybe doesn't understand the LOTG very well. The LOTG are not set up to even out issues of basic physics. If there are 100 legitimate calls to be made, make them. If the coaches are too incompetent and the players too dumb or too stubborn to adapt, that's not the ref's issue. But if the ref is making calls in order to make the game a non-contact sport, that's a problem.

[Unregistered]

enforcing the rules

As a youth coach on travel teams and as a parent of a teen ref, the first post was very good. Teen refs are required to take a 8 hour classroom training session, but very little "on the field" training. Field training events are evolving as we speak, but still not there yet. Blowing the whistle in a large group of people and making a call is not easy for some new refs. It has to be learned and one needs confidence and authority, which comes with experience.

Regarding calling fouls at U10 and U12, I believe overall more fouls are not called, than called. Some games, not even one foul is called. The kids are smart enough to know a quiet ref when they see one and they will certainly take advantage of that. At that point, the game of soccer is no longer beautiful and then player safety is at risk. For a ref who calls all the fouls, good for him or her. Its not the refs job to teach the rules of soccer to the players, that is the coach's role. And its not the ref's job to educate parents either. Its refreshing to see a yellow card issued when its appropriate. Too often hard fouls, such as tackling/pushing from behind without playing the ball are not penalized enough. The players will eventually learn what they can't do, may be even in game adjustments.