Girls ISL 2015

[Unregistered]

Nothing illegal about actually getting what your calculations say you are supposed to get. The dirty secret about the ISL's is they pick and choose who's need they will fund.

this is preposterous. you know, people who run established elite schools actually do things on paper and electronic records. they actually keep track of their decisions and the basis on which those decisions were made. this isn't a canoe club. no established school would ever risk its reputation by fudging the numbers on which its decisions are based. if a family wants to lie on their 1040 that's their prerogative but the school (and more importantly a bureaucrat within the administration) is not going to stick a neck out to funnel money to someone who doesn't merit it. you people don't realize the barriers to doing what you are suggesting. you fall for any conspiracy theory that explains why someone else is getting more than you.

[Unregistered]

Whose rules? ISL is not governed by federal financial aid laws. As I understand it ISL admissions practices are very need-aware.

The opposite, need-blind, means a school admits candidates purely based on desirability and regardless of ability to pay. After admission, Institutional funds are used to meet the financial need of each candidate. Harvard and Princeton are examples of schools with need-blind admissions. They have the endowment to do it, and tuition is not their main source of revenue. The ISL is NOT need blind, and most are very tuition dependent. They are brand-aware, and sports performance enhances the brand which keeps the line of full-paying families full.

Too funny. Not being need-blind doesn't mean giving away money to people who don't need it. Works the other way, stupid. Maybe you're calculating based on not counting the trust funds, lol.

[Unregistered]

this is preposterous. you know, people who run established elite schools actually do things on paper and electronic records. they actually keep track of their decisions and the basis on which those decisions were made. this isn't a canoe club. no established school would ever risk its reputation by fudging the numbers on which its decisions are based. if a family wants to lie on their 1040 that's their prerogative but the school (and more importantly a bureaucrat within the administration) is not going to stick a neck out to funnel money to someone who doesn't merit it. you people don't realize the barriers to doing what you are suggesting. you fall for any conspiracy theory that explains why someone else is getting more than you.

Absolutely correct, but keep in mind that is there is literally nothing that BTNT won't say or lie about to make himself feel good and better than everyone else.

[Unregistered]

Whose rules? ISL is not governed by federal financial aid laws. As I understand it ISL admissions practices are very need-aware.

The opposite, need-blind, means a school admits candidates purely based on desirability and regardless of ability to pay. After admission, Institutional funds are used to meet the financial need of each candidate. Harvard and Princeton are examples of schools with need-blind admissions. They have the endowment to do it, and tuition is not their main source of revenue. The ISL is NOT need blind, and most are very tuition dependent. They are brand-aware, and sports performance enhances the brand which keeps the line of full-paying families full.

Many words. Little knowledge.

The answer is: The ISL's rules. If you want to be in the ISL you play by the ISL's rules. If you don't, then you can give athletes all the money you like and have fun playing non-league scrimmages into the foreseeable future because no other league will take you either. Maybe you could play teams in Las Vegas or something. Anyone ever heard of Lawrence Academy? See if any ISL school would like to be the next LA. My guess is no.

[Unregistered]

Absolutely correct, but keep in mind that is there is literally nothing that BTNT won't say or lie about to make himself feel good and better than everyone else.

i don't know about btnt but i know a lot about elite prep schools and the athletics programs therein. the stuff i have seen on this board is so misguided to the point of being laughable. i don't know what people think they have to gain by preening here. if any of the suggestions were even close to the truth, the beneficiaries would never let out a peep. discovery would be calamitous for themselves and the wayward institution.

for those looking for an explanation for why others seem to be getting more than they: 1) they probably aren't and 2) maybe you need to be a little smarter about how you fill out those FA forms and get them in on time.

hint: it's actually both 1 and 2.

[Unregistered]

Many words. Little knowledge.

The answer is: The ISL's rules. If you want to be in the ISL you play by the ISL's rules. If you don't, then you can give athletes all the money you like and have fun playing non-league scrimmages into the foreseeable future because no other league will take you either. Maybe you could play teams in Las Vegas or something. Anyone ever heard of Lawrence Academy? See if any ISL school would like to be the next LA. My guess is no.

I didn't say that any ISL school gives money to those who don't need it. Totally agree that girls from Weston or Wellesley are not getting any deals because of athletic skill. If you can afford it, you pay regardless of how good your D is. But there is a (grateful) girl from a not-so wealthy family that is attending an ISL school at a price her family can afford, because of her athletic prowess. Her contribution to the school community was considered in the admissions process, and then her family's expected contribution was determined in the financial aid process.

[Unregistered]

I think that people are conflating two different concepts here.

Suppose you're the director of admissions at an ISL school. Further suppose that, using whatever criteria you'd like to use to identify the students that you'd like to admit, you've identified the students whom you'd like to admit. (Just to simply things, assume that your yield will be 100 percent, so that if you admit them, they will come.) But there's one problem: When you calculate the amount of financial aid that each would receive, based on his or her need, the total cost exceeds your budget.

You're going to have to modify your pool of admittees to account for this, which means that to the extent that a prospective student requires financial aid, you'll need to consider that when deciding whether to admit that student. That's what it means not to be need-blind. That's not "against the rules." It's just a fact of life when your endowment is not large enough to permit need-blind admissions. You have to pick and choose where to allocate your budget in order to permit you to put together as good a class as you can, and a prospective student's athletic ability may be one of the factors you consider when making that decision.

Now, let's suppose that there's a prospective student that you really, really want, but he or she only qualifies for $X of aid based on need. You offer that student more than is justified by his or her financial situation because of his or her athletic ability. THAT is what's against the ISL's rules. (Which is not to say that it never happens.)

[Unregistered]

I didn't say that any ISL school gives money to those who don't need it. Totally agree that girls from Weston or Wellesley are not getting any deals because of athletic skill. If you can afford it, you pay regardless of how good your D is. But there is a (grateful) girl from a not-so wealthy family that is attending an ISL school at a price her family can afford, because of her athletic prowess. Her contribution to the school community was considered in the admissions process, and then her family's expected contribution was determined in the financial aid process.

that sounds absolutely correct. except for the part where you suggest she is able to afford the school due to her athletic prowess.

you correctly describe the two parallel processes taking place each year: 1) admissions and 2) financial aid. your d's athletic talent may have been taken into account for the former but it had virtually no impact on the latter. to put a finer point on it, many schools do not even give sports that much weight in the admission process unless it is a truly singular talent as with music or other non-academic endeavors. congrats to your daughter for getting in and thanks to the school's endowment and FA policy for helping you afford it.

[Unregistered]

I think that people are conflating two different concepts here.

Suppose you're the director of admissions at an ISL school. Further suppose that, using whatever criteria you'd like to use to identify the students that you'd like to admit, you've identified the students whom you'd like to admit. (Just to simply things, assume that your yield will be 100 percent, so that if you admit them, they will come.) But there's one problem: When you calculate the amount of financial aid that each would receive, based on his or her need, the total cost exceeds your budget.

You're going to have to modify your pool of admittees to account for this, which means that to the extent that a prospective student requires financial aid, you'll need to consider that when deciding whether to admit that student. That's what it means not to be need-blind. That's not "against the rules." It's just a fact of life when your endowment is not large enough to permit need-blind admissions. You have to pick and choose where to allocate your budget in order to permit you to put together as good a class as you can, and a prospective student's athletic ability may be one of the factors you consider when making that decision.

Now, let's suppose that there's a prospective student that you really, really want, but he or she only qualifies for $X of aid based on need. You offer that student more than is justified by his or her financial situation because of his or her athletic ability. THAT is what's against the ISL's rules. (Which is not to say that it never happens.)

Great Example. Thank you. ISL schools are need-aware, they have to be. ISL nor colleges will ever offer more aid than a family's need (if they play by the rules). In sports like soccer and lacrosse, many of the best players, do not have need, and therefore do not get any financial assistance. But they do get in

[Unregistered]

Whose rules? ISL is not governed by federal financial aid laws. As I understand it ISL admissions practices are very need-aware.

The opposite, need-blind, means a school admits candidates purely based on desirability and regardless of ability to pay. After admission, Institutional funds are used to meet the financial need of each candidate. Harvard and Princeton are examples of schools with need-blind admissions. They have the endowment to do it, and tuition is not their main source of revenue. The ISL is NOT need blind, and most are very tuition dependent. They are brand-aware, and sports performance enhances the brand which keeps the line of full-paying families full.

Bingo. No rules get broken and no lying need be done. The same calculations actually do apply to everyone so there is nothing even remotely illegal going on. The difference with the ISL's (and most other preps) and college financial aid that most don't seem to grasp is that most prep schools don't have large enough endowments to cover every applicant's financial need so they must pick and choose whose they will fund. That discretionary power allows them to steer financial need money to whomever they feel is most deserving of it. Sometimes that student is a highly coveted athlete. Sometimes that student is a highly coveted musician. Sometimes that student is a highly coveted mind. And sometimes that student is a legacy who's grand parents donate millions. That is just the way the prep school world works.

[Unregistered]

I think that people are conflating two different concepts here.

Suppose you're the director of admissions at an ISL school. Further suppose that, using whatever criteria you'd like to use to identify the students that you'd like to admit, you've identified the students whom you'd like to admit. (Just to simply things, assume that your yield will be 100 percent, so that if you admit them, they will come.) But there's one problem: When you calculate the amount of financial aid that each would receive, based on his or her need, the total cost exceeds your budget.

You're going to have to modify your pool of admittees to account for this, which means that to the extent that a prospective student requires financial aid, you'll need to consider that when deciding whether to admit that student. That's what it means not to be need-blind. That's not "against the rules." It's just a fact of life when your endowment is not large enough to permit need-blind admissions. You have to pick and choose where to allocate your budget in order to permit you to put together as good a class as you can, and a prospective student's athletic ability may be one of the factors you consider when making that decision.

Now, let's suppose that there's a prospective student that you really, really want, but he or she only qualifies for $X of aid based on need. You offer that student more than is justified by his or her financial situation because of his or her athletic ability. THAT is what's against the ISL's rules. (Which is not to say that it never happens.)

Appreciate the effort but you do not quite have it. The school determines each year what proportion of FA need is going to be covered. Actually, it is less of a decision than a calculation based on the endowment spend ratio. So each year, the school learns what percentage of calculated financial need can be met. Some schools are well enough endowed (or have spending policy generous enough) to offer aid to 100% of need. Others are not. Those that cannot offer 100% make a pro-rata split across the student body and that is how you get your award package. You might ask why some very low income kids are still on 100% scholarship when others have taken a pro-rata hit. The answer lies in how far these students families were below the artificial floor the school's FA policy has chosen. It is one of the many ways in which the education establishment gets to feel all warm and fuzzy (AKA "progressive"). Unfortunately, there is no "athlete bonus" in any of this. It's really just Excel-driven. The process is much more formal and automated than what is imagined here.

[Unregistered]

Nothing illegal about actually getting what your calculations say you are supposed to get. The dirty secret about the ISL's is they pick and choose who's need they will fund.

That's neither dirty nor a secret. As you said, the funding still has to be done within the outer limits of the guidelines. And, like colleges (vast majority) that aren't need-blind, desirability of the applicant (for whatever reasons) and extent of ability to pay sometimes do factor into admissions decisions.

[Unregistered]

One thing that some parents might not be aware of that the SSS allows a couple of criteria that the FAFSA doesn't. The SSS takes into account all tuitions where as the FAFSA only takes into account college tuitions. The SSS gives an allowance for family vacations and extreme medical expenses which aren't factored into the FAFSA. The SSS also lets families include the cost of their club sport expenditures into the mix.

[Unregistered]

Appreciate the effort but you do not quite have it. The school determines each year what proportion of FA need is going to be covered. Actually, it is less of a decision than a calculation based on the endowment spend ratio. So each year, the school learns what percentage of calculated financial need can be met. Some schools are well enough endowed (or have spending policy generous enough) to offer aid to 100% of need. Others are not. Those that cannot offer 100% make a pro-rata split across the student body and that is how you get your award package. You might ask why some very low income kids are still on 100% scholarship when others have taken a pro-rata hit. The answer lies in how far these students families were below the artificial floor the school's FA policy has chosen. It is one of the many ways in which the education establishment gets to feel all warm and fuzzy (AKA "progressive"). Unfortunately, there is no "athlete bonus" in any of this. It's really just Excel-driven. The process is much more formal and automated than what is imagined here.

All that I know is that my child graduated from an ISL last year and when we were selecting their school 6 years ago we got a wide range of packages from the 5 schools they got admitted to. The difference between the top and bottom ones were close to $20,000. When I inquired at the different schools I was given virtually the same family need number by each of them and was told by several that it just "wasn't soccer's year".

[Unregistered]

Bingo. No rules get broken and no lying need be done. The same calculations actually do apply to everyone so there is nothing even remotely illegal going on. The difference with the ISL's (and most other preps) and college financial aid that most don't seem to grasp is that most prep schools don't have large enough endowments to cover every applicant's financial need so they must pick and choose whose they will fund. That discretionary power allows them to steer financial need money to whomever they feel is most deserving of it. Sometimes that student is a highly coveted athlete. Sometimes that student is a highly coveted musician. Sometimes that student is a highly coveted mind. And sometimes that student is a legacy who's grand parents donate millions. That is just the way the prep school world works.

pick and choose whose need they will fund? that's completely ignorant. this only works in the opposite way from which you think. it is in the case that a school is explicitly NOT need-blind. in those cases it may pick a student who can pay full freight over one who cannot. that is the only feedback loop from FA into admissions and it only applies to schools that are not need-blind. it is a way for the school to give LESS money - not a way to siphon money to students they "like" better.

there are very very rare instances of schools breaking all of their internal policies for truly exceptional cases. the son or daughter of a famous dissident who is also a concert-level pianist. a child who operated with us special forces in afghanistan whose family has since been relocated by the state department. these crazy scenarios do come up every year. those students can receive extraordinary support outside of all of the formulas. doing so violates no rule of any kind and does not make the school ineligible to participate in its athletic conference.