Kristine Lilly: The Soccer Club Vs. High School Team Controversy

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Do private HS players have a choice? I thought you had to play not only soccer but multiple sports?

Varies by school. But if you've been "recruited" for a sport then you better be playing that sport. That's why some (not all) boys DA clubs will grant private school waivers for the fall. But they won't give them for other sports. DA wants your kid for ten months whenever possible

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Friend from Europe (now a college coach): "Problem with American soccer, and why you'll never be able to catch up, is you have too many distractions holding kids back. They play too many sports...they have only so many hours a week, and if you aren't dedicating it only to soccer then you are falling behind." Yes, he realizes Holland has not many other sports to draw attention away, but feels that doesn't minimize his point.

He's right.

Brother, on board of a town team (as they transitioned into a bigger club team): "You cannot possibly ask a kid to choose which sport they want to pursue until they have plenty of time to pursue them. You are asking kids to make life decisions way too young. Kids need to be well-rounded, and cross-training can actually help them develop physically. In the long run, it's a benefit."

He's right, too.

Great post. The problem with so much of youth sports right now is that the parents get too invested in purchasing labels (ie DAP, ECNL etc) and don't really think through what is really involved with participating at the levels where those labels exist. You read it here all the time how soccer is supposed to be secondary to education and how the goal should be to just go out and enjoy playing for the sake of playing. Essentially the mindset of the recreationally motivated soccer player as espoused in the second passage. The problem, however, is no one seems to recognize that all of the upper level programs like DAP and ECNL are really designed to build soccer players who see soccer as their number priority (essentially embodied by the first passage) which creates a huge disconnect in expectations. The truth is 99% of the club soccer population has neither the desire nor the talent to become a high level soccer player but that doesn't stop the so called soccer industrial complex from wildly fostering that dream to sell roster spots.

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playing with the club you are guaranteed at least a bare minimum of talent (or why else would they pay fees) and training.

lmfao

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Great post. The problem with so much of youth sports right now is that the parents get too invested in purchasing labels (ie DAP, ECNL etc) and don't really think through what is really involved with participating at the levels where those labels exist. You read it here all the time how soccer is supposed to be secondary to education and how the goal should be to just go out and enjoy playing for the sake of playing. Essentially the mindset of the recreationally motivated soccer player as espoused in the second passage. The problem, however, is no one seems to recognize that all of the upper level programs like DAP and ECNL are really designed to build soccer players who see soccer as their number priority (essentially embodied by the first passage) which creates a huge disconnect in expectations. The truth is 99% of the club soccer population has neither the desire nor the talent to become a high level soccer player but that doesn't stop the so called soccer industrial complex from wildly fostering that dream to sell roster spots.

Agree that DAP and ECNL may be designed for that, but there is not really enough demand at the highest level all the kids being churned out by all those teams (which are necessary to cut down on the travel). So the teams have no choice to fill the programs with lots of kids/families who endgame is different than what others' expectations might be. Not saying the kids can't play in college, but there's likely less money than many people expect (particularly for boys) and it's a career path for very few (particularly for girls). And while I see the "industrial soccer complex" fueling some false hopes, the coaches I encountered along this path played it pretty straight once you called them on the junk they might be telling the kids. The parents were the bigger problem- not being realistic about little Mia's talents and then passing along their own lies about the "full ride" Mia got.

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It boils down to just one question: Where does USA want to take its soccer? To be a world contender you can' t invest your time playing all different sports and then bunch up and beat Germany on a given Sunday. Time is long gone that what Kristine Lily and peers did was good enough to bring home trophies. They were super athletes that played multiple sports and they were able to beat the rest of the world based on their strength and athleticism. Back then in a lot countries, soccer was men's sports and they didn't invest any time to develop it among wome's. I remember some countries saying" US women's play soccer like men." Think about that expression. So what KL and others did worked in that scenario and nowadays the reality is different. Not here but everywhere else.
You can see for instance Brazil, France, England , etc. much stronger and they are catching up if not passing US women's soccer. You can't have the best of both worlds. Specialization has to happen and earlier better. Not different than what happened to US women's gymnastic team. We wouldn't beat Russia and China if we didn't replicate and improve what the other countries do.

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First US women played like men, because most played on teams with them.

That advantage no longer exists. Only a handful of female players regularly practice and play on men or boys teams.

Multiple sports, cross training, is still important. Just because a player focuses on soccer, doesn't mean they shouldn't participate in other sports. Basketball, tennis, lacrosse, track, swimming and surfing all improve fitness, strength and balance and help create a more well rounded soccer athlete.

Any time a club or coach says to follow their program, only play for them, and avoid other sports, be very wary.

[Unregistered]

It boils down to just one question: Where does USA want to take its soccer? To be a world contender you can' t invest your time playing all different sports and then bunch up and beat Germany on a given Sunday. Time is long gone that what Kristine Lily and peers did was good enough to bring home trophies. They were super athletes that played multiple sports and they were able to beat the rest of the world based on their strength and athleticism. Back then in a lot countries, soccer was men's sports and they didn't invest any time to develop it among wome's. I remember some countries saying" US women's play soccer like men." Think about that expression. So what KL and others did worked in that scenario and nowadays the reality is different. Not here but everywhere else.
You can see for instance Brazil, France, England , etc. much stronger and they are catching up if not passing US women's soccer. You can't have the best of both worlds. Specialization has to happen and earlier better. Not different than what happened to US women's gymnastic team. We wouldn't beat Russia and China if we didn't replicate and improve what the other countries do.

Can't disagree with any of that... If the question is - Is your daughter the next Kristine Lilly? And there's the rub.

There are parents out there moving beyond the idea their child can't play multiple sports to can't play high school soccer or I risk Little Mia's scholarship chances (all of that is bunk, including these parents understanding of athletic scholarships). Of course, Club soccer is happy to do little to nothing to dissuade their delusion.

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Can't disagree with any of that... If the question is - Is your daughter the next Kristine Lilly? And there's the rub.

There are parents out there moving beyond the idea their child can't play multiple sports to can't play high school soccer or I risk Little Mia's scholarship chances (all of that is bunk, including these parents understanding of athletic scholarships). Of course, Club soccer is happy to do little to nothing to dissuade their delusion.

I think if ECNl wasn't around first then more parents would buy into that myth. But ECNL has proven it can work. You can't really use boys DA as an example because boys didn't have the option of ECNL. There are also far fewer roster spots in men's soccer in general, and many top spots are taken by foreigners. Plenty of rosters posts in women's soccer and GDA can't possibly fill them all. GDA may become the spot for top D1 players, but ECNL will still offer good soccer for those not at the very top of the pyramid and are fine with that

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Here's where boys DA is a perfect example- it's the 2nd league, and you play DA if you want a good shot at playing D1. So if your child will be faced with a decision about where to play, the question you to need to ask is if you are and Mia are going to be OK when her peers are playing in the 1st league and garnering more looks from the top schools? There are lots of good reasons to play HS and ECNL instead, but Mia will be left saying (or at least thinking): "I could have played with them/I'm just as good as they are/how can Morgan be talking to X when I'm only talking to Y" etc.

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Here's where boys DA is a perfect example- it's the 2nd league, and you play DA if you want a good shot at playing D1. So if your child will be faced with a decision about where to play, the question you to need to ask is if you are and Mia are going to be OK when her peers are playing in the 1st league and garnering more looks from the top schools? There are lots of good reasons to play HS and ECNL instead, but Mia will be left saying (or at least thinking): "I could have played with them/I'm just as good as they are/how can Morgan be talking to X when I'm only talking to Y" etc.

This is beyond tired logic. The league where a kid plays their games has no significant impact on where they end up in college. It is the amount of talent that they have and the amount of training that they have had that dictates it all. The impact that the DA will have has nothing to do with exposure at all and everything to do with the significant difference in the amount and quality of training over the other leagues. When you put a group of the highest caliber players from an area all together and put them in a total immersion type training environment it is going to significantly enhance their ability to play soccer. The college coaches will all know that any player trained in such an environment will be of a much higher quality than one not trained in such an environment and will pursue them accordingly. The exposure angle that keeps getting pushed is functionally unnecessary.

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This is beyond tired logic. The league where a kid plays their games has no significant impact on where they end up in college. It is the amount of talent that they have and the amount of training that they have had that dictates it all. The impact that the DA will have has nothing to do with exposure at all and everything to do with the significant difference in the amount and quality of training over the other leagues. When you put a group of the highest caliber players from an area all together and put them in a total immersion type training environment it is going to significantly enhance their ability to play soccer. The college coaches will all know that any player trained in such an environment will be of a much higher quality than one not trained in such an environment and will pursue them accordingly. The exposure angle that keeps getting pushed is functionally unnecessary.

I don't get it. You're saying the better players at DA and DA immersion training environment will produce the highest quality players and that college coaches know this and will pursue them accordingly. So how will this not impact where they end up in college?

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I don't get it. You're saying the better players at DA and DA immersion training environment will produce the highest quality players and that college coaches know this and will pursue them accordingly. So how will this not impact where they end up in college?

Point was that the old ECNL hype about exposure wasn't as important as the amount of talent and the amount of training. Once parents realize that if their kid is good and puts the necessary work day in and day out into getting better they start figuring out that they don't have spend a small fortune travelling all over the country in order for them to play college soccer. The problem with the ECNL was the leveling was wrong because it grouped widely varying talents based more on willingness to pay the freight than actual talent so it became as watered down as any other league out there only with a higher travel budget. The promise of GDAP is that the two year age groupings and training intensity combined with the reduced travel costs will attract a higher caliber player and that will solve the watering down issue and therefore make belonging to GDAP just like belonging to the ODP regional team was years ago. It defined a player's level and made exposure literally unnecessary.

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Point was that the old ECNL hype about exposure wasn't as important as the amount of talent and the amount of training. Once parents realize that if their kid is good and puts the necessary work day in and day out into getting better they start figuring out that they don't have spend a small fortune travelling all over the country in order for them to play college soccer. The problem with the ECNL was the leveling was wrong because it grouped widely varying talents based more on willingness to pay the freight than actual talent so it became as watered down as any other league out there only with a higher travel budget. The promise of GDAP is that the two year age groupings and training intensity combined with the reduced travel costs will attract a higher caliber player and that will solve the watering down issue and therefore make belonging to GDAP just like belonging to the ODP regional team was years ago. It defined a player's level and made exposure literally unnecessary.

While I agree with most of what you wrote, the only point to correct is the myth that ECNL costs more. This has been disproven, with ECNL and other regional level team parents quoting expenses.

I have had kids in all 3 of the top leagues over the years, and all expenses were similar, especially when we travelled to Disney with a late invite paying full freight. One year our ECNL expenses were pretty reasonable because we booked lodging and travel as soon as the full schedule was released.

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While I agree with most of what you wrote, the only point to correct is the myth that ECNL costs more. This has been disproven, with ECNL and other regional level team parents quoting expenses.

I have had kids in all 3 of the top leagues over the years, and all expenses were similar, especially when we travelled to Disney with a late invite paying full freight. One year our ECNL expenses were pretty reasonable because we booked lodging and travel as soon as the full schedule was released.

I booked early once and ended up eating a ticket because a work trip got sprung on me two months before the trip and I had to buy a ticket for my wife to go instead. The only way I found to save money was to not go on the stupid trip. What I found out was that out of the 15-20 families typically flying to these showcases that only 2-3 got any significant recruiting impact from any one of them and after all was said and done the vast majority of the kids ended up putting together college situations for themselves through alternative (and less costly) avenues. The whole recruiting spiel most clubs give everyone is a lie. You don't need to do any of it to get recruited. The reason they have you travel is for club prestige and to fulfill league obligations. That's it.

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Ok, I'm on board with the whole notion that all the travel and expense is unnecessary. Especially agree with the point about traveling to showcases where maybe 2-3 kids get looks, especially when almost every single kid stays in New England for school anyways (maybe Syracuse too). Yes, a very special player goes to Duke or UCLA occasionally. And you guys can argue about whether ODP Regional plus NPL was just as good as ECNL, but that argument is now moot- GDAP will be top dog. Not saying you can't get to the top by other means, but that will now be the top training/competition/exposure venue for girls (just as DA is for boys). A bit less pressure to join perhaps (as compared with boys), as there are more spots and $ for the girls, but girls and their parents will still have to decide if they're Ok being in the second tier.