Will Boys ECNL deplete the DA?

[Unregistered]

Gotta disagree. While that exact player might not play, another with similar physical weaknesses in comparison to today's typical athletic player, couple with outstanding game sense and vision could. Or should more often.

There was a walk on to the Maryland men's team that was a practice player with the women's a few years ago, can't recall his name, that is a recent example of the earlier post.

Here we go. Yet another thread destined to become all about the slow but supposedly technically superior athlete getting screwed. Haven't we had enough of this guy's fictions. Tomorrow we'll have a thread about his 9 yo son who is really a soccer phenom with the ball but nobody pays attention to him because he looks like he might be 5-6 yo.

[Unregistered]

Here we go. Yet another thread destined to become all about the slow but supposedly technically superior athlete getting screwed. Haven't we had enough of this guy's fictions. Tomorrow we'll have a thread about his 9 yo son who is really a soccer phenom with the ball but nobody pays attention to him because he looks like he might be 5-6 yo.

What guy? Who and what are you talking about?

[Unregistered]

Here we go. Yet another thread destined to become all about the slow but supposedly technically superior athlete getting screwed. Haven't we had enough of this guy's fictions. Tomorrow we'll have a thread about his 9 yo son who is really a soccer phenom with the ball but nobody pays attention to him because he looks like he might be 5-6 yo.

Cue the nastiness and the "clueless parent with talentless child" rant. Go away Paul, you aren't adding value.

[Unregistered]

Cue the nastiness and the "clueless parent with talentless child" rant. Go away Paul, you aren't adding value.

Shut up Fred, go back to ranting about politics in the FCB thread. Your antics are not funny.

[Unregistered]

Aspirationally, DA should be for those US Soccer really wants in the pool for potential national team talent and international exposure or professional careers. Not just about college. That is theoretically why the financial burden should be on the program, not the families. Price is no HS team (whether you are doing it because your ISL team is amazing or because you want some social connection to the real world and your school), no outside sports, tons of travel, etc. It should not be widely offered or granted.

Aspirationally, ECNL is for top level players who are not DA material whether by choice or by elimination, but who still want to play in college (and maybe not just "any" D1 - maybe to gain advantage to more selective schools). Don't need DA to be recruited to a top academic program with strong soccer, boys or girls. ECNL girls was successful primarily because of combination of selective club associations (all games competitive) + showcases lumping top girls clubs together + 3-4 productive scouting trips per year. No need to try to make individual games or to follow various NPL teams around with spotty levels of competition. Maybe no DA players will want to move to ECNL, but maybe some will, and all top NPL players will want ECNL. Also not widely offered (only 2 clubs in mass for boys, 3 for girls).

Aspirationally, NPL is for next level players trying to work toward potential college recruitment, but will not be as strong of a platform for recruiting even if for no other reason than logistics. So top NPL players will want ECNL if they can get it.

[Unregistered]

Aspirationally, DA should be for those US Soccer really wants in the pool for potential national team talent and international exposure or professional careers. Not just about college. That is theoretically why the financial burden should be on the program, not the families. Price is no HS team (whether you are doing it because your ISL team is amazing or because you want some social connection to the real world and your school), no outside sports, tons of travel, etc. It should not be widely offered or granted.

Aspirationally, ECNL is for top level players who are not DA material whether by choice or by elimination, but who still want to play in college (and maybe not just "any" D1 - maybe to gain advantage to more selective schools). Don't need DA to be recruited to a top academic program with strong soccer, boys or girls. ECNL girls was successful primarily because of combination of selective club associations (all games competitive) + showcases lumping top girls clubs together + 3-4 productive scouting trips per year. No need to try to make individual games or to follow various NPL teams around with spotty levels of competition. Maybe no DA players will want to move to ECNL, but maybe some will, and all top NPL players will want ECNL. Also not widely offered (only 2 clubs in mass for boys, 3 for girls).

Aspirationally, NPL is for next level players trying to work toward potential college recruitment, but will not be as strong of a platform for recruiting even if for no other reason than logistics. So top NPL players will want ECNL if they can get it.

Totally agree with the theory. The reality is DA is too big, partly because of geographic necessity, partly (now) because of USSF's desire to dominate youth soccer for the sake of 5% of the players. The result is a watered down mess moving forward until some other new "solution" is announced 3-4 years from now.

[Unregistered]

Politics at its best that is why soccer here in the States sucks. If I was running to USSF I'll give US Club Soccer an ultimatum. Fall in line or get out. US Club Soccer is a USSF sanctioned entity yet they seek to compete with USSF. There need to be structure in youth soccer or else development in this country will continue to suffer. I love the way European club soccer are structured. State, town, geographic restrictions forces local talents to stay local at the youth ages or until a transfer fee is met. There are pride in development so if players leave the clubs are compensated for developing the players. It is a win-win situation for all involved. Obviously this mean the end of the current pay-to-play system.

[Unregistered]

Politics at its best that is why soccer here in the States sucks. If I was running to USSF I'll give US Club Soccer an ultimatum. Fall in line or get out. US Club Soccer is a USSF sanctioned entity yet they seek to compete with USSF. There need to be structure in youth soccer or else development in this country will continue to suffer. I love the way European club soccer are structured. State, town, geographic restrictions forces local talents to stay local at the youth ages or until a transfer fee is met. There are pride in development so if players leave the clubs are compensated for developing the players. It is a win-win situation for all involved. Obviously this mean the end of the current pay-to-play system.

Compare the two systems is interesting but they are so fundamentally different is it really useful?

European system is arranged to identify and financially exploit true freakish soccer talent.

Soccer here is a pay to play activity of the upper and middle classes.

[Unregistered]

Totally agree with the theory. The reality is DA is too big, partly because of geographic necessity, partly (now) because of USSF's desire to dominate youth soccer for the sake of 5% of the players. The result is a watered down mess moving forward until some other new "solution" is announced 3-4 years from now.

Agree with this. But solving the DA is not simple- it's a big country, we don't have enough quality at the MLS DA level to keep competition local, and there are legal and commercial issues keeping us from adopting the European model.

Disagree with the prior ECNL analysis. Girls ENCL was successful because it was the top league, while boys ECNL will be fighting to be second with NPL. We don't need a third alternative for boys or girls, but the adults are squabbling so they are coming regardless. Around here, except for a few Revs kids, boys go to school mostly in New England and almost entirely in the Northeast. There is absolutely no reason to travel to a showcase in Ohio or wherever when all the local coaches can see you at the local tournaments that already exist. And there's no reason to travel to Maryland for regular-season league games- as useless as the old Region 1 league. Bet you'd have a hard time finding many families who did the Region 1 league more than one season. So I can see some DA dropping down to boys ECNL so they can play HS, but doubt non-delusional NPL kids will be heading to boys ECNL in droves as is suggested.

[Unregistered]

Agree with this. But solving the DA is not simple- it's a big country, we don't have enough quality at the MLS DA level to keep competition local, and there are legal and commercial issues keeping us from adopting the European model.

Disagree with the prior ECNL analysis. Girls ENCL was successful because it was the top league, while boys ECNL will be fighting to be second with NPL. We don't need a third alternative for boys or girls, but the adults are squabbling so they are coming regardless. Around here, except for a few Revs kids, boys go to school mostly in New England and almost entirely in the Northeast. There is absolutely no reason to travel to a showcase in Ohio or wherever when all the local coaches can see you at the local tournaments that already exist. And there's no reason to travel to Maryland for regular-season league games- as useless as the old Region 1 league. Bet you'd have a hard time finding many families who did the Region 1 league more than one season. So I can see some DA dropping down to boys ECNL so they can play HS, but doubt non-delusional NPL kids will be heading to boys ECNL in droves as is suggested.

Soccer is a business and the player's families are the customers. This will continue as the market sorts out what people will buy and what they will not buy.

Some need to experience a season or year of that needless travel for themselves before they reject it and some think it is fine. These leagues have life as long as there are enough willing to pay up and give it a try.

There are lots of unnecessary products out there that sell like hot cakes.

[Unregistered]

The Revs would pay good money to keep themselves insulated from humiliation by pay to play DA clubs.

They don't even pay "good money" for coaching that allows them to actually defeat pay to play DA clubs.

[Unregistered]

Soccer is a business and the player's families are the customers. This will continue as the market sorts out what people will buy and what they will not buy.

Some need to experience a season or year of that needless travel for themselves before they reject it and some think it is fine. These leagues have life as long as there are enough willing to pay up and give it a try.

There are lots of unnecessary products out there that sell like hot cakes.

Yep, it's only 2 teams locally, so they'll get some kids, and then the market will sort it out. probably a good move by Stars, since this could be a chance to establish themselves somewhat as a boys club. From a soccer perspective, seems like a mistake by the Bolts. Presumably they'll have to tell DA kids there are no waivers?- if you want to play HS, then play boys ECNL. Good for the kids- more choices; maybe a negative for the Bolts DA teams as they lose some kids to boys ECNL, and waiver kids will choose other DA programs. Who knows- maybe they figure they're better off with all kids fully committed to DA. From a business perspective, since it's not clear where any of this is going to shake out, I guess you grab as many different slots as you can.

[Unregistered]

Agree with this. But solving the DA is not simple- it's a big country, we don't have enough quality at the MLS DA level to keep competition local, and there are legal and commercial issues keeping us from adopting the European model.

Disagree with the prior ECNL analysis. Girls ENCL was successful because it was the top league, while boys ECNL will be fighting to be second with NPL. We don't need a third alternative for boys or girls, but the adults are squabbling so they are coming regardless. Around here, except for a few Revs kids, boys go to school mostly in New England and almost entirely in the Northeast. There is absolutely no reason to travel to a showcase in Ohio or wherever when all the local coaches can see you at the local tournaments that already exist. And there's no reason to travel to Maryland for regular-season league games- as useless as the old Region 1 league. Bet you'd have a hard time finding many families who did the Region 1 league more than one season. So I can see some DA dropping down to boys ECNL so they can play HS, but doubt non-delusional NPL kids will be heading to boys ECNL in droves as is suggested.

The draw of the ECNL platform will draw some kids from DA and NPL. NPL drops down to #3. NPL is fragmented with so many different subleagues, all of which have a few top teams and then not good at all teams. ECNL is straightforward, has a track record of college placements etc.

As far as the travel goes that I agree with. I know there's been talk of ECNL moving to have at least one more even being regional instead of national. It's crazy to have coaches from the east coast go to the west coast, to watch players from the east coast, who want to go to school on the east coast!

[Unregistered]

The draw of the ECNL platform will draw some kids from DA and NPL. NPL drops down to #3. NPL is fragmented with so many different subleagues, all of which have a few top teams and then not good at all teams. ECNL is straightforward, has a track record of college placements etc.

As far as the travel goes that I agree with. I know there's been talk of ECNL moving to have at least one more even being regional instead of national. It's crazy to have coaches from the east coast go to the west coast, to watch players from the east coast, who want to go to school on the east coast!

A more competitive market can tip more power to the customers. I do know of at least one instance where the parents united and refused to attend a national event that the club wanted the team to attend. Maybe there can be more of this.

[Unregistered]

Yep, it's only 2 teams locally, so they'll get some kids, and then the market will sort it out. probably a good move by Stars, since this could be a chance to establish themselves somewhat as a boys club. From a soccer perspective, seems like a mistake by the Bolts. Presumably they'll have to tell DA kids there are no waivers?- if you want to play HS, then play boys ECNL. Good for the kids- more choices; maybe a negative for the Bolts DA teams as they lose some kids to boys ECNL, and waiver kids will choose other DA programs. Who knows- maybe they figure they're better off with all kids fully committed to DA. From a business perspective, since it's not clear where any of this is going to shake out, I guess you grab as many different slots as you can.

I know this feeling isn't necessarily new ... but do any of you here feel as if (as parents/players) we get jerked around so much lately with all this? Granted (admittedly), I have 3 kids (17 down to 13) so that's a relatively short amount of time to be assessing the landscape so to say... But geez, we had the whole age group re-shuffle last year, the DA with no high school, to ECNL, to NPL, to now Boys ECNL and Girls DA (adding to already watered down leagues), to NEP to adding NPL, to moving down to NEC, etc. etc... I'm mixing girls/boys issues as well as time frame mixing... I'm not really complaining (I swear), it's more of just an observation that I never get the sense that anyone has any clue what is going and every year things are tossed in the air and we all scramble and reshuffle, etc. Kind of annoying? Or am I the only one? :)