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    Little League World Series

    Anybody else been watching these Little League World Series games? The game the other between PA and SC was one of the best baseball games I've seen. The attendance for that game was around 32,000 fans...which brings me to a question I have

    I'm sure these Little League teams have the entire community following them ( heard PA had majority of those 32,000 fans)...when a local soccer team wins states, regionals and even nationals why is there no huge following of fans except for the parents and or other club members?

    I keep hearing how youth soccer is so popular and youth baseball is dying , yet youth soccer can't even get 1,000 fans for their national championship games..

    #2
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    Anybody else been watching these Little League World Series games? The game the other between PA and SC was one of the best baseball games I've seen. The attendance for that game was around 32,000 fans...which brings me to a question I have

    I'm sure these Little League teams have the entire community following them ( heard PA had majority of those 32,000 fans)...when a local soccer team wins states, regionals and even nationals why is there no huge following of fans except for the parents and or other club members?

    I keep hearing how youth soccer is so popular and youth baseball is dying , yet youth soccer can't even get 1,000 fans for their national championship games..
    Because a state cup winning team in soccer has very few players that grew up together in the same neighborhood like Little Leage has....I might be wrong but I think you cannot live outside that township to play little league ball, can't say the same for top youth soccer teams

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      Anybody else been watching these Little League World Series games? The game the other between PA and SC was one of the best baseball games I've seen. The attendance for that game was around 32,000 fans...which brings me to a question I have

      I'm sure these Little League teams have the entire community following them ( heard PA had majority of those 32,000 fans)...when a local soccer team wins states, regionals and even nationals why is there no huge following of fans except for the parents and or other club members?

      I keep hearing how youth soccer is so popular and youth baseball is dying , yet youth soccer can't even get 1,000 fans for their national championship games..
      Okay, I'll bite. Some factors include the following:

      1) The Little League World Series is an international tournament with teams competing from all over the world. And you now have national patriotism in play at the championship level.

      2) The tournament has been in existence since the 1940s.

      3) The location of the championships are always at the same location and have been since the series creation (Williamsport, South Carolina) and thus have built up a generational following.

      4) The games have had national TV exposure since the 1960s. TV coverage expanded beyond just the championship game as far back as the 1980s. For the past decade many regionals and qualifying games can be also seen on TV (ESPN and ABC). This draws much more attention and awareness of the games.

      5) Baseball is a declining sport overall but was once the most popular sport in the US but certain events still resonate. The College World Series still hits high numbers and youth sports in general are growing in popularity (see the expansion of HS basketball and football games on TV these days).

      6) Due to factors previously mentioned, awareness of the Little League World Series is incredibly high while most people don't even know that US Youth Soccer has championship games.

      7) This year's attendance was boosted in part because one of the teams had a star female pitcher and benefited from the "curiosity factor". If a top boys soccer team had a female player as a major contributor you can bet there would be a lot of news coverage of it and their games would see a respectable increase in attendance.

      Softball, Flag Football, Lacrosse also have similar championship events without much national fanfare. Tackle football is this country's most popular sport and there are youth football "national championship" tournaments. Basketball AAU championships are yearly events. Still nothing rivals the LLWS in terms of popularity or tradition which is probably due to the length of this tournaments existence (and arising in the heyday of its sport).

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        Okay, I'll bite. Some factors include the following:

        1) The Little League World Series is an international tournament with teams competing from all over the world. And you now have national patriotism in play at the championship level.

        2) The tournament has been in existence since the 1940s.

        3) The location of the championships are always at the same location and have been since the series creation (Williamsport, South Carolina) and thus have built up a generational following.

        4) The games have had national TV exposure since the 1960s. TV coverage expanded beyond just the championship game as far back as the 1980s. For the past decade many regionals and qualifying games can be also seen on TV (ESPN and ABC). This draws much more attention and awareness of the games.

        5) Baseball is a declining sport overall but was once the most popular sport in the US but certain events still resonate. The College World Series still hits high numbers and youth sports in general are growing in popularity (see the expansion of HS basketball and football games on TV these days).

        6) Due to factors previously mentioned, awareness of the Little League World Series is incredibly high while most people don't even know that US Youth Soccer has championship games.

        7) This year's attendance was boosted in part because one of the teams had a star female pitcher and benefited from the "curiosity factor". If a top boys soccer team had a female player as a major contributor you can bet there would be a lot of news coverage of it and their games would see a respectable increase in attendance.

        Softball, Flag Football, Lacrosse also have similar championship events without much national fanfare. Tackle football is this country's most popular sport and there are youth football "national championship" tournaments. Basketball AAU championships are yearly events. Still nothing rivals the LLWS in terms of popularity or tradition which is probably due to the length of this tournaments existence (and arising in the heyday of its sport).
        Williamsport, Pennsylvania I believe you meant.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          Anybody else been watching these Little League World Series games? The game the other between PA and SC was one of the best baseball games I've seen. The attendance for that game was around 32,000 fans...which brings me to a question I have

          I'm sure these Little League teams have the entire community following them ( heard PA had majority of those 32,000 fans)...when a local soccer team wins states, regionals and even nationals why is there no huge following of fans except for the parents and or other club members?

          I keep hearing how youth soccer is so popular and youth baseball is dying , yet youth soccer can't even get 1,000 fans for their national championship games..
          It has taken 20 + years for LLWS to start drawing the fans. If you remember in the past only the championship game was on ABC WWS. Today with all the cable channels and the need to fill air time even the regional games get coverage. Soccer is still new to TV in the USA. The ad revenue stream is still be perfected. Give in another few years and you will see the difference.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            It has taken 20 + years for LLWS to start drawing the fans. If you remember in the past only the championship game was on ABC WWS. Today with all the cable channels and the need to fill air time even the regional games get coverage. Soccer is still new to TV in the USA. The ad revenue stream is still be perfected. Give in another few years and you will see the difference.
            Soccer is too boring on TV ... To the casual fan, soccer is moments of brilliance surrounded by long periods of tedium. For every match that is a beautiful spectacle, there are five that ponderous affairs with little attacking play, long balls booted back and forth punctuated by back passes, square passes and passes to the keeper. Soccer’s running clock begets mind numbing delay tactics and the play acting is offensive to even the most passionate fans.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              Soccer is too boring on TV ... To the casual fan, soccer is moments of brilliance surrounded by long periods of tedium. For every match that is a beautiful spectacle, there are five that ponderous affairs with little attacking play, long balls booted back and forth punctuated by back passes, square passes and passes to the keeper. Soccer’s running clock begets mind numbing delay tactics and the play acting is offensive to even the most passionate fans.
              Boring.......keep watching baseball.hahahahaha

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                Anybody else been watching these Little League World Series games? The game the other between PA and SC was one of the best baseball games I've seen. The attendance for that game was around 32,000 fans...which brings me to a question I have

                I'm sure these Little League teams have the entire community following them ( heard PA had majority of those 32,000 fans)...when a local soccer team wins states, regionals and even nationals why is there no huge following of fans except for the parents and or other club members?

                I keep hearing how youth soccer is so popular and youth baseball is dying , yet youth soccer can't even get 1,000 fans for their national championship games..
                - LLWS is an American tradition. The history buys it credibility & perceived importance
                - As mentioned earlier, the teams are "town" teams with geographic borders and all local kids. As we know, top soccer teams bring in players from afar and often replace local players with non-local kids as the team gets better.
                - LLWS is one age group that is deemed to be more important than other age groups. There is not dominant age group in soccer.
                - It is in a small town in remote PA. Same location every year. Lots of local fans show up. That big turn-out looks great on TV.
                - LLWS is very organized. There is one path to Williamsport. There aren't a bunch of other side-show tournaments. Everything is focused on Williamsport.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Just to add, Little League has suffered a lot of attrition to other baseball leagues recently (Cal Ripken, Pony, etc). A lot of local youth leagues in South Florida have switched to PONY league baseball. Originally Little League only went through age 12. Other leagues like Pony started at that age. Eventually the various leagues expanded their age divisions.

                  Pony is the fastest growing in part because its rules are superior in terms of age and skill progression, less age separation for players, allowing things like stealing and bunting, fields and base paths that grow with the child rather than remain constant, etc. It also better emulates Travel Baseball rules (and Travel Baseball being the only real growth area in the sport).

                  Little League has the advantage of being the largest because for a long time it was the only league. But the shortcomings in its ancient rules are driving a lot of leagues and parents to alternative programs.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    Anybody else been watching these Little League World Series games? The game the other between PA and SC was one of the best baseball games I've seen. The attendance for that game was around 32,000 fans...which brings me to a question I have

                    I'm sure these Little League teams have the entire community following them ( heard PA had majority of those 32,000 fans)...when a local soccer team wins states, regionals and even nationals why is there no huge following of fans except for the parents and or other club members?

                    I keep hearing how youth soccer is so popular and youth baseball is dying , yet youth soccer can't even get 1,000 fans for their national championship games..
                    Youth baseball is not dying declining but so are most youth sports. Many kids even under 12 are playing just one sport. Overall youth baseball and softball still has more kids participating than soccer does. Even though MLB does not draw the ratings it used to: still for a season they have 30 teams playing 162 games each just about all televised, many teams averaging 25K-30+ fans at the park for 81 home games. So yes soccer is more popular than it used to be and is growing, but not as popular as baseball yet.

                    Also the LLWS teams are all-star teams from their area and not a team that played in a traditional season.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      Youth baseball is not dying declining but so are most youth sports. Many kids even under 12 are playing just one sport. Overall youth baseball and softball still has more kids participating than soccer does. Even though MLB does not draw the ratings it used to: still for a season they have 30 teams playing 162 games each just about all televised, many teams averaging 25K-30+ fans at the park for 81 home games. So yes soccer is more popular than it used to be and is growing, but not as popular as baseball yet.

                      Also the LLWS teams are all-star teams from their area and not a team that played in a traditional season.
                      If you consider that baseball used to be, by far, the most popular sport in the US and has gone from a national sport to a much more regionalized sport . . . then yes it is dying. It's not on its deathbed yet and might still be revived but the total apathy baseball receives from a majority of children these days compared to previous generations is disturbing. Most of the growth has been due to inflation, raised prices, larger government finances stadiums and additional revenue streams rather than expanding popularity or the fan base. Many of the hard core fans are older because they were raised with baseball being important. As these people die off . . . well . . . that's when the real drop occurs. What we see now are the manifestations of regionalization and the disinterest by the younger population in terms of participation and viewership.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        If you consider that baseball used to be, by far, the most popular sport in the US and has gone from a national sport to a much more regionalized sport . . . then yes it is dying. It's not on its deathbed yet and might still be revived but the total apathy baseball receives from a majority of children these days compared to previous generations is disturbing. Most of the growth has been due to inflation, raised prices, larger government finances stadiums and additional revenue streams rather than expanding popularity or the fan base. Many of the hard core fans are older because they were raised with baseball being important. As these people die off . . . well . . . that's when the real drop occurs. What we see now are the manifestations of regionalization and the disinterest by the younger population in terms of participation and viewership.
                        I think dying is not accurate. When Baseball was the nation's most popular sport there were very little team sports competing with it. So to compare it to the environment that existed 50 years ago to today and all the changes that have occurred in between is not fair. In 1960 MLB pulled in about 20 million in attendance with the US pop. of 180m or equal to 11 percent of the population; today MLB gets 75 million in attendance with US pop. of 300m or equal to 25 percent of the population. So the growth in attendance is not just because there are more people. Baseball/Softball is second to basketball in youth sports. The size of the of pie has grown so much so there is plenty for all.
                        I can't say what will be the case 50 years in the future, but in the near future or next decade baseball standing is too strong to shift too much. I also think it would seem fair to expect soccer to continue to grow in the near future. However, those of us associated with soccer are sometimes too much in an echo chamber and don't realize that despite the growth in popularity it still is not on the radar with the average sports fan or the sport of choice for most kids.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          I think dying is not accurate. When Baseball was the nation's most popular sport there were very little team sports competing with it. So to compare it to the environment that existed 50 years ago to today and all the changes that have occurred in between is not fair. In 1960 MLB pulled in about 20 million in attendance with the US pop. of 180m or equal to 11 percent of the population; today MLB gets 75 million in attendance with US pop. of 300m or equal to 25 percent of the population. So the growth in attendance is not just because there are more people. Baseball/Softball is second to basketball in youth sports. The size of the of pie has grown so much so there is plenty for all.
                          I can't say what will be the case 50 years in the future, but in the near future or next decade baseball standing is too strong to shift too much. I also think it would seem fair to expect soccer to continue to grow in the near future. However, those of us associated with soccer are sometimes too much in an echo chamber and don't realize that despite the growth in popularity it still is not on the radar with the average sports fan or the sport of choice for most kids.
                          Attendance is still relatively strong but also buoyed by the fact there are a third more teams now than in the late 60s when attendance was about 13% of the population.

                          The problem is not that people don't watch baseball on TV or gamble on baseball. It's the fact that its popularity is highest in the oldest segments of the population. Travel baseball participation is way up but overall participation is way down. The number of children under 17 watching baseball games make up less than 5% of the overall audience.

                          This will snowball over time. With more kids without attachment to the sport becoming parents fewer kids will be exposed to the sport. Baseball is fine over the next decade but considering that baseball is most popular in people over the age of 55 . . . time is going to eventually catch up.

                          The sad part of the equation is MLB. What has MLB done in the past few decades to try and stem the clearly obvious slide of its product with younger generations? Owners and players alike seem preoccupied with issues of greed. Other sports seem to be doing a much better job of reaching out to youth. Baseball just seems to be stubbornly obstinate. Perhaps looking at the same numbers you have stated and convincing themselves that things are better than ever and only going to get better.

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