In what other sports is winning not important?

[Unregistered]

Devils advocate, not everyone wants a long term progression in soccer. The problem is that like minded individuals are not always together because of the duplicity in youth sports. Just becasue they wanted to win does not make them wrong. Maybe the real issue is they should be playing teams that share that and you should be playing teams who share your philosophy.


My daughters HS team coach used to often say after losses - well we played the better soccer. I have always felt that HS soccer is all about winning. If the Club coach says that, Im fine with it. Just my interpretation, does not mean I was right.

The loss doesn't bother me a bit. I understand a development philosophy and that is a long term philosophy, but players are better for it. Win first is a short term philosophy. No one is going to remember that win at 11yo, but play in a system with that win-first philosophy for long enough period, and your players will be far behind in all areas of the game, when winning matters (High School, State Championships, National Cups)

[Unregistered]

Competition? What are they competing for? To play well? To be developed?

Ever hear about a kid that played a game because they wanted development instead of to win the game? Me neither.

You're not a Tantric Priest, are you?

Geez, I have been doing it all wrong.

So, my next practice plan will include: how to hold a shirt without the ref seeing it; how to elbow the player running next to you; how to step on opponents' feet to pin them to the ground when a corner kick is taken; how to talk trash quietly enough to goad opponents into fouls; how to scissors in slide tackle; how to scrape your cleats down the back of an opponents leg when he's in possession; how to land an unseen punch in the wall at free kick time; how to step on an opponent's leg when getting up off the ground (of course, after scissoring him); and (the perennial favorite) how to dive convincingly.

Because winning IS everything.

-a coach

[Unregistered]

Happened this weekend at my son's game against Bayside. Bayside used every possession opportunity to boot it forward to the same player, who scored all the goals and who happened to be the biggest player on the field. No attempt to possess the ball, build from the back, work through the midfield, etc. Just boot it to the big fast kid playing forward... didn't matter if it was a defender or keeper, same game plan on evey possession.

At the start of the 2nd half, the coach had the same kid take a shot from the half on the first touch and scored. Worked on a 9v9 field. Won't work next year in 11v11. Those parents are paying thousands to win games now in the most direct way possible, no better than most middle and high school soccer. Not to mention that most kids on that team never touched the ball, dribbled, or did much of anything other than to kick it long. I'll take my kid's team and coach over that crap soccer every time. Sure they lost, but everyone on the team had opportunities to dribble, pass/receive, defend and attack.

Sorry, but Bayside lost any credibility in developing players with me. Crap soccer, but the parents loved it...

Win on Sunday, sell on Monday.
Bayside will have more at tryouts, right or wrong, than you will.

[Unregistered]

Geez, I have been doing it all wrong.

So, my next practice plan will include: how to hold a shirt without the ref seeing it; how to elbow the player running next to you; how to step on opponents' feet to pin them to the ground when a corner kick is taken; how to talk trash quietly enough to goad opponents into fouls; how to scissors in slide tackle; how to scrape your cleats down the back of an opponents leg when he's in possession; how to land an unseen punch in the wall at free kick time; how to step on an opponent's leg when getting up off the ground (of course, after scissoring him); and (the perennial favorite) how to dive convincingly.

Because winning IS everything.

-a coach

Pinch the inside thigh, epecially when cold.
And we see all of the above every Saturday, so maybe you should be covering at training

[Unregistered]

The loss doesn't bother me a bit. I understand a development philosophy and that is a long term philosophy, but players are better for it. Win first is a short term philosophy. No one is going to remember that win at 11yo, but play in a system with that win-first philosophy for long enough period, and your players will be far behind in all areas of the game, when winning matters (High School, State Championships, National Cups)

Why? Why are you saying winning and development are mutually exclusive? I'm talking about clean winning that comes from development of kids. Not the knee jerk key-board commando interpretation that a win can only come from cheating or neglecting training.

[Unregistered]

Let me give you the keys to success where coaching is concerned.

1. Develop your kids because their skills will help their team win.
2. Teach the kids to properly judge how much time they will have with the ball and give them a strong Soccer IQ. The kids must know how to play every position, how those positions work together in concert and why that position is important to overall game strategy.
3. Make sure the kids have a strong bond with their team mates.
4. Be sure the kids understand that their team mates are relying on them to train hard and do their best in the games. Don't disappoint your team mates by slacking off or playing sloppy.
5. On game day, help your kids win. Allow them to use their judgment on how they play. If they don't think they have time to make a good pass, then allow them to boot the ball. Allow the keeper to boot the ball also. HOWEVER IT IS IMPORTANT that you point out when they are wrong. Remind them that they had time to make a good pass. The Keeper had an opportunity to roll the ball out and didn't see it because the Keeper didn't properly evaluate the field. KEEP INSISTING THAT THEY DO THINGS RIGHT WHEN THEY HAVE TIME.
6. As much as possible, with older kids, have them play different positions. Whenever you get a lead. If you're slaughtering the other team, insist on only "beautiful" soccer. As your team gets stronger, those opportunities come up more often.
7. Never allow the kids to cheat. Never allow kids to be bad apples. Get rid of the kids that do that stuff.
8. Parents will be happy when your team wins. The team will solidify and grow. You will likely be able to recruit great players since your team is winning.
9. Because your team is winning, your kids will be more receptive to training. Soccer is fun! Winning feels good! They want to be great soccer players, so they try harder to develop skills and work on skills at home. They get more out of each practice because they want to learn.
10. Tell your team you are proud of them. Encourage your team to "test themselves" by playing harder teams. Playing up. They feel like they are best, then they need new challenges! Let's be the best! We'll work harder than any other team to stay #1.

[Unregistered]

Let me give you the keys to success where coaching is concerned.

1. Develop your kids because their skills will help their team win.
2. Teach the kids to properly judge how much time they will have with the ball and give them a strong Soccer IQ. The kids must know how to play every position, how those positions work together in concert and why that position is important to overall game strategy.
3. Make sure the kids have a strong bond with their team mates.
4. Be sure the kids understand that their team mates are relying on them to train hard and do their best in the games. Don't disappoint your team mates by slacking off or playing sloppy.
5. On game day, help your kids win. Allow them to use their judgment on how they play. If they don't think they have time to make a good pass, then allow them to boot the ball. Allow the keeper to boot the ball also. HOWEVER IT IS IMPORTANT that you point out when they are wrong. Remind them that they had time to make a good pass. The Keeper had an opportunity to roll the ball out and didn't see it because the Keeper didn't properly evaluate the field. KEEP INSISTING THAT THEY DO THINGS RIGHT WHEN THEY HAVE TIME.
6. As much as possible, with older kids, have them play different positions. Whenever you get a lead. If you're slaughtering the other team, insist on only "beautiful" soccer. As your team gets stronger, those opportunities come up more often.
7. Never allow the kids to cheat. Never allow kids to be bad apples. Get rid of the kids that do that stuff.
8. Parents will be happy when your team wins. The team will solidify and grow. You will likely be able to recruit great players since your team is winning.
9. Because your team is winning, your kids will be more receptive to training. Soccer is fun! Winning feels good! They want to be great soccer players, so they try harder to develop skills and work on skills at home. They get more out of each practice because they want to learn.
10. Tell your team you are proud of them. Encourage your team to "test themselves" by playing harder teams. Playing up. They feel like they are best, then they need new challenges! Let's be the best! We'll work harder than any other team to stay #1.

I.e., don't be a bad coach. I was (hopefully obviously) being sarcastic when I laid out some of the (innumerable) ways to cheat.

As a player, this drives me mad, and as a coach, I won't teach it: http://www.footballitaliano.co.uk/p6...-furbizia.html

I was trying to use it to shed light on the "winning vs development" issue, but I don't think I was clear. I was hoping that (almost) everybody here would agree that coaches should prioritize player development (in the skills/soccer-IQ sense) over furbizia, and then they would draw the obvious inference to the following two issues:

The first issue is whether to prioritize winning for the TEAM in the short-term (e.g., direct play, rostering quicker-maturing rather than high-soccer-IQ kids) vs the long-term (playing out of the back, retaining the ball). I believe in the long term view for the team.

The second issue is whether to prioritize the development of every INDIVIDUAL player in the medium-to-long-term, over the short-term winning for the TEAM.

It is my goal to make sure that, by the end of the season, each individual player has developed as much as is humanly possible during the course of that season.

-a coach

[Unregistered]

Coach, question for you....

Can you speak to how you try to develop the individual with a group goal in mind? i.e. kids start at different levels, develop at different paces, and have different goals in mind. The most successful coaches we've come across take the time to drill it down to the player. Some get "yelled" at for things others don't...because they know them and expect different from them.

Thoughts?

[Unregistered]

Let me give you the keys to success where coaching is concerned.

1. Develop your kids because their skills will help their team win.
2. Teach the kids to properly judge how much time they will have with the ball and give them a strong Soccer IQ. The kids must know how to play every position, how those positions work together in concert and why that position is important to overall game strategy.
3. Make sure the kids have a strong bond with their team mates.
4. Be sure the kids understand that their team mates are relying on them to train hard and do their best in the games. Don't disappoint your team mates by slacking off or playing sloppy.
5. On game day, help your kids win. Allow them to use their judgment on how they play. If they don't think they have time to make a good pass, then allow them to boot the ball. Allow the keeper to boot the ball also. HOWEVER IT IS IMPORTANT that you point out when they are wrong. Remind them that they had time to make a good pass. The Keeper had an opportunity to roll the ball out and didn't see it because the Keeper didn't properly evaluate the field. KEEP INSISTING THAT THEY DO THINGS RIGHT WHEN THEY HAVE TIME.
6. As much as possible, with older kids, have them play different positions. Whenever you get a lead. If you're slaughtering the other team, insist on only "beautiful" soccer. As your team gets stronger, those opportunities come up more often.
7. Never allow the kids to cheat. Never allow kids to be bad apples. Get rid of the kids that do that stuff.
8. Parents will be happy when your team wins. The team will solidify and grow. You will likely be able to recruit great players since your team is winning.
9. Because your team is winning, your kids will be more receptive to training. Soccer is fun! Winning feels good! They want to be great soccer players, so they try harder to develop skills and work on skills at home. They get more out of each practice because they want to learn.
10. Tell your team you are proud of them. Encourage your team to "test themselves" by playing harder teams. Playing up. They feel like they are best, then they need new challenges! Let's be the best! We'll work harder than any other team to stay #1.

Let us not forget the most important facet, of which we are reminded on an almost daily basis by our esteemed college football and basketball institutions-bribery works best.

You are all such panty-waisted, Pollyannas who still believe in the innocence of sport.
The Dark side has already won.

[Unregistered]

Coach, question for you....

Can you speak to how you try to develop the individual with a group goal in mind? i.e. kids start at different levels, develop at different paces, and have different goals in mind. The most successful coaches we've come across take the time to drill it down to the player. Some get "yelled" at for things others don't...because they know them and expect different from them.

Thoughts?

No different than teaching kids in school who are at different levels in the same class... the slant method of providing more challenges to those who are ready and focussing on the basics/fundementals for those who aren't. Training can be tailored to be more or less challenging. Weak foot only, 2-touch only, playing as a neutral in drills/scrimmages, etc.

Good coaches will have his/her players write down short and long term goals for the season and the year, ask for details as to how they will achieve them, and then hold them accountable throughout the year. Good coaches give homework to their players as a couple of practices per week isn't enough and player development doesn't stop when they leave practice.

[Unregistered]

Why? Why are you saying winning and development are mutually exclusive? I'm talking about clean winning that comes from development of kids. Not the knee jerk key-board commando interpretation that a win can only come from cheating or neglecting training.

If you read my post, you should have understood the coach of the other team put winning over development given his on-field tactics. Players always attempted to boot the ball forward whether or not they had time and space to make another decision. There was never an attempt to build out the back or use the midfield to connect the back line with the front line. I can tell you the number of touches most players received was minimal compared to the big/fast forward and there was no decision making to speak of beyond lump ot forward to the same player.

That doesn't help develop all the players on the field. It is not skilled soccer, it is not intelligent soccer, and if players can't try and play smarter at U11/12 9v9 in low level play, there is no way they will ever do it at 11v11 at higher levels of competition and faster speed of play.

[Unregistered]

If you read my post, you should have understood the coach of the other team put winning over development given his on-field tactics. Players always attempted to boot the ball forward whether or not they had time and space to make another decision. There was never an attempt to build out the back or use the midfield to connect the back line with the front line. I can tell you the number of touches most players received was minimal compared to the big/fast forward and there was no decision making to speak of beyond lump ot forward to the same player.

That doesn't help develop all the players on the field. It is not skilled soccer, it is not intelligent soccer, and if players can't try and play smarter at U11/12 9v9 in low level play, there is no way they will ever do it at 11v11 at higher levels of competition and faster speed of play.

Half the problem with club soccer is kids don't know how to healthily compete and so you now see them gliding through practices and games at 3/4 speed failing to even attempt to exert any dominance over their opponent. That's not what sport is supposed to be about, what they are doing is nothing more than just a choreographed drill. That's the ramification of the stupidity the rec coaches across America like the OP have brought us to. And then they want to complain about things like coaches not having enough licenses so they teach their kids properly or other stupid "development" buzz words. The reality is 99% of the kids playing soccer will never be very good at it and all these clowns are doing is dumbing down sports so their kid doesn't get beat. Sad actually.

[Unregistered]

No different than teaching kids in school who are at different levels in the same class... the slant method of providing more challenges to those who are ready and focussing on the basics/fundementals for those who aren't. Training can be tailored to be more or less challenging. Weak foot only, 2-touch only, playing as a neutral in drills/scrimmages, etc.

Good coaches will have his/her players write down short and long term goals for the season and the year, ask for details as to how they will achieve them, and then hold them accountable throughout the year. Good coaches give homework to their players as a couple of practices per week isn't enough and player development doesn't stop when they leave practice.

I was giving the other side of the argument, so I'm not sure who was being asked this, but I'd like to ratify what's being said here and add to it. Part of being a good coach is recognizing where your players are deficient and speaking to them about it, and how they can correct it ,and then following up in practice. For example, I have a kid on my team who has amazing foot skills compared to the other players...can juggle better, etc. However, this kid tends to hang on to the ball too long and then have to fight off defenders when it would have made more sense to pass the ball. I talk to this player all of the time that their foot skills are a gift, and to use that gift to steal the ball, but at the same time, use those skills to make good first touches quickly and get rid of the ball before they are under pressure. I have another kid on my team who has a terrible first touch, but that player is very fast. I've worked with that player about trying to dump the ball to open space when receiving the ball and then run to the ball first to gain more time to get the ball under control. And meanwhile, I continue to run drills that emphasize trapping and passing.

You can also break into focus groups.

The key here is to figure out who needs what, and fix it. Most players come to the game with relative strengths and weaknesses. I tend to focus on the weaknesses most of all for the each individual because it helps the team as a group.

[Unregistered]

Half the problem with club soccer is kids don't know how to healthily compete and so you now see them gliding through practices and games at 3/4 speed failing to even attempt to exert any dominance over their opponent. That's not what sport is supposed to be about, what they are doing is nothing more than just a choreographed drill. That's the ramification of the stupidity the rec coaches across America like the OP have brought us to. And then they want to complain about things like coaches not having enough licenses so they teach their kids properly or other stupid "development" buzz words. The reality is 99% of the kids playing soccer will never be very good at it and all these clowns are doing is dumbing down sports so their kid doesn't get beat. Sad actually.

I'm the OP, and I'm here to tell you the situation is just the opposite. First, I have license and certifications. Second, you will never see my kids gliding through a game at 3/4 speed. They want to win, and know they need to hustle to get it done. When I want to see kids running at 3/4 speed, I look for the teams that never win. The kids are so demoralized they don't see the purpose of putting in the effort. They are just trying to survive the drudgery...they don't expect a happy outcome so they don't work for it. Truth!

[Unregistered]

I am not Donald Trump.....but.....

Winning is the only thing that any kid should have on his/her mind. In addition, they should act and play as though they are the only one to get the team the victory......

Doesn't this sound so bass-ackwards you want to scream and don't I sound like some Trump-like supremacist?? Well maybe....but with regard to developing skills for the individual this is the attitude that the child must have at least until the age of 14 or 15. I have seen now in three different team sports that those kids who develop the most, become the best, and ultimately get recruited to colleges and the pros have this feeling, this attitude, and exhibit this behavior.

They, in their path, develop and realize that they are part of a team, or some very wise and worthwhile coach adds to their soccer game by making them start to play part of a team.

As for the coaches and parents.....well....winning isn't everything especially if you are going to let individuals believe and play like I suggest. Full support for the game whether they win or lose, whether the kid scores or doesn't, whether the kid defends well or not, is what gets the kid out there the next day and the next game.