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Is Region 1 ODP ID camp fixed?

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    #16
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    Can a elite ecnl player be overlooked for five days and not put into ID pool once? Is it possible? Discuss
    It's been fixed for years. It should come as no surprise.

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      #17
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      It's been fixed for years. It should come as no surprise.
      How so?

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        How so?
        They know full well who is moving on before it even begins. There may be a few spots up for grabs. Also there is heavy preference for players from the more southern states in R1. Colleges may like North East girls because they can handle, and usually shine, in bad weather games, but when it comes to the NT pool, if it's close the upper hand goes to the kids in better weather states. It seems to have been that way for years. And yes, there is a huge difference in weather between New England and Jersey/PA/MD. Affiliations with the talent evaluators are a huge indication of who hsa the advantage as well.

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          #19
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          It is not "fixed" but it is not an open competition for every spot. There are so many variables that go into getting selected. It seems the trick is to make the pool at an early age. The older you are, the harder it is to make the pool. You would really need to stand out to bump a player who has already been IDed. Just as it is hard to bump an incumbent from an established team.
          Bubble players in ODP or in Club will always get the nod over unknown talent. Think of it as paying it forward for time served and the 'devil you know over don't philosophy' much harder to make the switch with one regional camp look as well.

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            #20
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Yes, they can be overlooked. The coach is looking to fill positions. Some of these positions have been filled (deservedly) by the same girls for years and bumping them out is all but impossible unless their talent peaks. If this happens, or girls drop out or have club commitments the week of camp, some new people can slide in.

            At the older age groups, only the first 18 girls really get any real reward. The others selected for the pool are just great Facebook updates for their parents and a line in their Top Drawer bio.
            Given that the top 18 spots are the only reward and at older ages harder to get, they should do a better job of providing top-notch training for those who do not (or have no chance of) make the pool. There needs to be some draw, other than making the pool. Otherwise, there is no benefit in going, unless getting to do nothing but scrimmage is seen as a value add.

            Also, if they know ahead of time that there are specific positions they are looking to fill for a given pool, they should let the kids know that before they get there. For example, if they are only looking for a center-back and a striker and your kid has never played either position, he/she is at a disadvantage. If the kids knew ahead of time what positions were available, they might have a shot, by prepping to vie for those positions.

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              #21
              I assume we are discussing the 2003 girls. Out of the 18 girls selected, 4 play for Mass ECNL clubs (I thought another 3 deserved selection). The other 12 spots went mainly to PA, NY and NJ girls.
              There were probably 40-50 ECNL quality players present and I could see how one or two could fall between the cracks, particularly if they were in a "stacked" position group. I thought the Mass girls played well and there wasn't much of a difference between some of the girls who made it and those who didn't...really splitting hairs in some cases.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                Given that the top 18 spots are the only reward and at older ages harder to get, they should do a better job of providing top-notch training for those who do not (or have no chance of) make the pool. There needs to be some draw, other than making the pool. Otherwise, there is no benefit in going, unless getting to do nothing but scrimmage is seen as a value add.

                Also, if they know ahead of time that there are specific positions they are looking to fill for a given pool, they should let the kids know that before they get there. For example, if they are only looking for a center-back and a striker and your kid has never played either position, he/she is at a disadvantage. If the kids knew ahead of time what positions were available, they might have a shot, by prepping to vie for those positions.
                All of you are all being delusional here because you can't accept how high the bar is really set. They are not looking for finished products, they are looking for potential. What ID camp is about is finding players with the potential to reach where the full NT has set that bar not who are the "best" at this point in time because the "best" aren't typically even close to that bar at this point. Could be a lot of issues that knock a player out but projected size, speed and/or their ball skills are good places to start. The reality is lot's of kids have decent ball skills at this point but few project to be world class athletes so usually its the projected athleticism more so than their soccer training that fails them. That genetics, not league affiliation. Moan all you like about how unfair life is but it is ridiculous to put labels like ECNL on players as though that is some indication of a player's quality in this race. All that says is that a player was already identified and recruited by a club and the truth be told is it also usually means the word "potential" is missing with them because of the need to win in the here and now in a league like that.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  All of you are all being delusional here because you can't accept how high the bar is really set. They are not looking for finished products, they are looking for potential. What ID camp is about is finding players with the potential to reach where the full NT has set that bar not who are the "best" at this point in time because the "best" aren't typically even close to that bar at this point. Could be a lot of issues that knock a player out but projected size, speed and/or their ball skills are good places to start. The reality is lot's of kids have decent ball skills at this point but few project to be world class athletes so usually its the projected athleticism more so than their soccer training that fails them. That genetics, not league affiliation. Moan all you like about how unfair life is but it is ridiculous to put labels like ECNL on players as though that is some indication of a player's quality in this race. All that says is that a player was already identified and recruited by a club and the truth be told is it also usually means the word "potential" is missing with them because of the need to win in the here and now in a league like that.
                  Welcome back, BTNT. Finally, finally, you told us the league doesn't matter. Now if only anyone had argued that your post would make sense. Still great to see how much you care and how much you want to lend a helping hand.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    All of you are all being delusional here because you can't accept how high the bar is really set. They are not looking for finished products, they are looking for potential. What ID camp is about is finding players with the potential to reach where the full NT has set that bar not who are the "best" at this point in time because the "best" aren't typically even close to that bar at this point. Could be a lot of issues that knock a player out but projected size, speed and/or their ball skills are good places to start. The reality is lot's of kids have decent ball skills at this point but few project to be world class athletes so usually its the projected athleticism more so than their soccer training that fails them. That genetics, not league affiliation. Moan all you like about how unfair life is but it is ridiculous to put labels like ECNL on players as though that is some indication of a player's quality in this race. All that says is that a player was already identified and recruited by a club and the truth be told is it also usually means the word "potential" is missing with them because of the need to win in the here and now in a league like that.
                    Did the ODP coaches get this memo?

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Seriously? Potential? This sounds good in theory, but often does not reflect who is selected.

                      My biggest pet peeve is the idea coaches can pick fast strong athletes and "teach" them soccer. Very rarely can they successfully make up for the youth hours and years spent with a ball at their foot.

                      Which is why the style and level of play for both men and women is still low. Too great an emphasis on speed and strength over skill and vision.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        All of you are all being delusional here because you can't accept how high the bar is really set. They are not looking for finished products, they are looking for potential. What ID camp is about is finding players with the potential to reach where the full NT has set that bar not who are the "best" at this point in time because the "best" aren't typically even close to that bar at this point. Could be a lot of issues that knock a player out but projected size, speed and/or their ball skills are good places to start. The reality is lot's of kids have decent ball skills at this point but few project to be world class athletes so usually its the projected athleticism more so than their soccer training that fails them. That genetics, not league affiliation. Moan all you like about how unfair life is but it is ridiculous to put labels like ECNL on players as though that is some indication of a player's quality in this race. All that says is that a player was already identified and recruited by a club and the truth be told is it also usually means the word "potential" is missing with them because of the need to win in the here and now in a league like that.
                        Who is being delusional? If you believe the 50% of ODP coaches that are terrible play any role in getting kids to the NT, you are nuts. If the folks involved with ODP want to have it remain viable they need to offer something more than the prospect of making the pool. Because as people get hip to how ODP really works, they will stop participating. Once parents realize their kid has no chance of making the pool, they tend to bail. If the program offered more than the ephemeral hope of making the pool, then parents might continue to have their kids participate.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          Who is being delusional? If you believe the 50% of ODP coaches that are terrible play any role in getting kids to the NT, you are nuts. If the folks involved with ODP want to have it remain viable they need to offer something more than the prospect of making the pool. Because as people get hip to how ODP really works, they will stop participating. Once parents realize their kid has no chance of making the pool, they tend to bail. If the program offered more than the ephemeral hope of making the pool, then parents might continue to have their kids participate.
                          What "more" do you want ODP to do?

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            What "more" do you want ODP to do?
                            I want ODP to pick my daughter. I spend a lot of money to get her on an ECNL team,private lessons,strength and condition training.
                            She needs ODP on her college resume so she can play at a good D3 school.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              Who is being delusional? If you believe the 50% of ODP coaches that are terrible play any role in getting kids to the NT, you are nuts. If the folks involved with ODP want to have it remain viable they need to offer something more than the prospect of making the pool. Because as people get hip to how ODP really works, they will stop participating. Once parents realize their kid has no chance of making the pool, they tend to bail. If the program offered more than the ephemeral hope of making the pool, then parents might continue to have their kids participate.
                              If you think that 95% of who those ODP coaches you are dissing select actually are national level talents it is you who are being delusional. That's why so few of them actually make it into national team camps and even fewer of them stick for any length of time. That's also the real reason players pull out of ODP, the program tells them in no uncertain terms what their ceiling is and so once players reach it, there really is no reason to continue. That ceiling isn't just whether or not a player makes the regional pool, it's also whether they advance out of it. It's only the truly delusional that keep going once their kid has reached their personal ceiling.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                Seriously? Potential? This sounds good in theory, but often does not reflect who is selected.

                                My biggest pet peeve is the idea coaches can pick fast strong athletes and "teach" them soccer. Very rarely can they successfully make up for the youth hours and years spent with a ball at their foot.

                                Which is why the style and level of play for both men and women is still low. Too great an emphasis on speed and strength over skill and vision.
                                Not sure I can agree with this as a blanket statement, for all kids at this age. The kid in question probably is not very fast or overly athletic, but may have decent foot and field skills. I'd tend to pick the faster more athletic type. G

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