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    #16
    this will follow her if she stays at the same club. is she a starter? If not, bail now and take her somewhere else where she will be valued and keep her confidence. There is nothing worse than realizing your coach doesn't have faith in you. It's a spiral affect and soon the other kids on the team will also not have faith in her and her confidence will be shot and she will regress, don't let the coach do this to your kid.

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      OP here. Thank you all for your comments. I'll try to answer what I can.

      I asked the coach what can we do about this and he said only time and experience
      will fix the problem. Core of the team has been together 4+ years.
      My D is part of the new girls who came in due to birth year. Team is still adjusting.

      The coach seems like a good guy, but I have meet enough d-bags to be cautious.
      He didn't ask her to leave, but I was playing out worst case scenarios for plan b, c, d.
      Developmental player was in the context that she was a bubble player and he
      allowed her to join the team as a special project and taking a chance.
      This is what really shocked me. I had no idea that this is what he thought of her.
      "What if?" comes to mind, since there were 2 other clubs who really wanted her
      to try out.

      Honestly, I thought the goals and assists she made were a good measure of her
      progress. She was a sub in the beginning, but now plays most of the minutes in every game. See the confusion? Makes a lot of goals and assists, technical with both
      feet, plays lots of minutes, but not good enough to make the cut or even make the team.
      I feel guilty b/c I feel like I led my D astray. I should have asked more questions or talked
      to parents more. Positive thing is that my D says she is over it and just wants to play
      and to score hat tricks until end of the season. Kids. :) Thanks all.
      It sounds to me like he is trying to fit her into the rotation and if she is gaining in PT then I'd be patient. Just have her keep working.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        OP here. Thank you all for your comments. I'll try to answer what I can.

        I asked the coach what can we do about this and he said only time and experience
        will fix the problem. Core of the team has been together 4+ years.
        My D is part of the new girls who came in due to birth year. Team is still adjusting.

        The coach seems like a good guy, but I have meet enough d-bags to be cautious.
        He didn't ask her to leave, but I was playing out worst case scenarios for plan b, c, d.
        Developmental player was in the context that she was a bubble player and he
        allowed her to join the team as a special project and taking a chance.
        This is what really shocked me. I had no idea that this is what he thought of her.
        "What if?" comes to mind, since there were 2 other clubs who really wanted her
        to try out.

        Honestly, I thought the goals and assists she made were a good measure of her
        progress. She was a sub in the beginning, but now plays most of the minutes in every game. See the confusion? Makes a lot of goals and assists, technical with both
        feet, plays lots of minutes, but not good enough to make the cut or even make the team.
        I feel guilty b/c I feel like I led my D astray. I should have asked more questions or talked
        to parents more. Positive thing is that my D says she is over it and just wants to play
        and to score hat tricks until end of the season. Kids. :) Thanks all.
        First off, it seems like you are an honest poster and looking out for your daughter. I understand the need to be wary, without being a helicopter parent. Sometimes you do not want to get involved but the politics force your hand.

        As to your soccer point, I noticed you are focused on goals and assists. You can play poorly - especially if you're a forward - and still score a goal. Why do you call a forward who has 12 opportunities and converts 1 ? Not so good. if the midfield and defense dominate a game and the forward scores 1 goal, I would think they may have had a bad game although all mom and dad will think about is the 1 goal.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          OP here. Thank you all for your comments. I'll try to answer what I can.

          I asked the coach what can we do about this and he said only time and experience
          will fix the problem. Core of the team has been together 4+ years.
          My D is part of the new girls who came in due to birth year. Team is still adjusting.

          The coach seems like a good guy, but I have meet enough d-bags to be cautious.
          He didn't ask her to leave, but I was playing out worst case scenarios for plan b, c, d.
          Developmental player was in the context that she was a bubble player and he
          allowed her to join the team as a special project and taking a chance.
          This is what really shocked me. I had no idea that this is what he thought of her.
          "What if?" comes to mind, since there were 2 other clubs who really wanted her
          to try out.

          Honestly, I thought the goals and assists she made were a good measure of her
          progress. She was a sub in the beginning, but now plays most of the minutes in every game. See the confusion? Makes a lot of goals and assists, technical with both
          feet, plays lots of minutes, but not good enough to make the cut or even make the team.
          I feel guilty b/c I feel like I led my D astray. I should have asked more questions or talked
          to parents more. Positive thing is that my D says she is over it and just wants to play
          and to score hat tricks until end of the season. Kids. :) Thanks all.
          Honestly your post makes very little sense. If she is starting most game, playing a lot of minutes, scoring goals and racking up assists, there is no way a coach would cut her from the team or even have her on the bubble. Bubble players don't start and play most games and definitely aren't scoring 1/3 of the goals.

          It sounds like he knows he will have to play politics when the ECNL roster comes out and she may be left with the short stick. She sounds like she is definitely good enough to be on the ECNL roster and he knows that or she wouldn't be getting the starts and minutes she is. You can always tell what a coach thinks about a player by how much the kid plays or starts. I always tell my kids, if you are starting and playing all game, the coach likes you no matter how much he yells at you. Add in that she is a major goal scorer and her ability is not in doubt. Its the off the field issues you need to worry about and those are hard to figure out ( parents, politics. money etc)

          Good luck and as long as she is an impact player, I would stay with the club. IF she is that good, when it comes time to move, she will have opportunities.

          Comment


            #20
            ^^^^ this. Also, what are her long term soccer goals? Does she want to play ECNL? Play in college? What are her other club options and what level(s) are they? Are they consistent with her goals? Which has the best training?

            Tossing GDA aside for the moment, ECNL for the time being is the top league and the most competitive. While not universally true the training tends to be high quality. Find the place that will help her reach her potential

            Comment


              #21
              Probably politics

              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              Honestly your post makes very little sense. If she is starting most game, playing a lot of minutes, scoring goals and racking up assists, there is no way a coach would cut her from the team or even have her on the bubble. Bubble players don't start and play most games and definitely aren't scoring 1/3 of the goals.

              It sounds like he knows he will have to play politics when the ECNL roster comes out and she may be left with the short stick. She sounds like she is definitely good enough to be on the ECNL roster and he knows that or she wouldn't be getting the starts and minutes she is. You can always tell what a coach thinks about a player by how much the kid plays or starts. I always tell my kids, if you are starting and playing all game, the coach likes you no matter how much he yells at you. Add in that she is a major goal scorer and her ability is not in doubt. Its the off the field issues you need to worry about and those are hard to figure out ( parents, politics. money etc)

              Good luck and as long as she is an impact player, I would stay with the club. IF she is that good, when it comes time to move, she will have opportunities.
              I agree with the above post. This situation doesn't make much sense to me either though even for thoughtful parents it can be difficult to realistically assess your own child's ability. However playing time is a good measure of a coach's judgment and that seems solid. I think it's likely to be politics given the information here. Coach knows he will have a civil war if one of his longer-term players misses out on selection and your daughter makes it. It's a consideration that does get made even though it shouldn't. He may not want to confront the issue right now, but he isn't saying your daughter will never make it. If this rings true and you feel he may never wish to confront it then it might be an idea to look around next year. No need to fall out this year and time can sometimes change these situations unpredictably in your favor.

              One point I would challenge in a couple of other posts. At that age I'll take the kid who makes 12 opportunities (or can get into a position to score 12 times) and misses 11 over the kid who makes 3 and converts 2. It's way easier to coach better finishing over time than it is to coach better positional/spatial instincts around goal. Your kid is going to be fine.

              Comment


                #22
                Is she playing?? Is she having fun??

                Those are the 2 key questions you need to answer truthfully.

                Tomorrow (God forbid) she can blow out a knee or meet a boy or even lose interest all together and move on to another sport and then all your worrying was for naught.

                For the time being enjoy watching her play. So many people on here think that their kid's future is on the line based on what happens at 12/13/14 years old. As long as they're not doing drugs or getting knocked up, be happy. They don't need all the anxiety and drama you are projecting to rub off on them. Let them be a kid.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  I agree with the above post. This situation doesn't make much sense to me either though even for thoughtful parents it can be difficult to realistically assess your own child's ability. However playing time is a good measure of a coach's judgment and that seems solid. I think it's likely to be politics given the information here. Coach knows he will have a civil war if one of his longer-term players misses out on selection and your daughter makes it. It's a consideration that does get made even though it shouldn't. He may not want to confront the issue right now, but he isn't saying your daughter will never make it. If this rings true and you feel he may never wish to confront it then it might be an idea to look around next year. No need to fall out this year and time can sometimes change these situations unpredictably in your favor.

                  One point I would challenge in a couple of other posts. At that age I'll take the kid who makes 12 opportunities (or can get into a position to score 12 times) and misses 11 over the kid who makes 3 and converts 2. It's way easier to coach better finishing over time than it is to coach better positional/spatial instincts around goal. Your kid is going to be fine.
                  This is in my opinion the HUGE problem with youth soccer. Loyalty to players due to seniority. Soccer in the US is not a meritocracy, rather it is a political process driven by pay-to-play and loyalty to "repeat customers" and this combined with daddy coaches, conflicted board members, relationships between player families and coaches/DOCs create an environment that can only be described as "political" and it is disgusting. Sport is supposed to be a meritocracy, free from politics.

                  In this particular case, the OP is stuck. If they pick up and move they will be the new kid on the block somewhere else and have to start out at the bottom of the pecking order all over again. I would say to stick around and build from the position you are at presently - somewhere in the middle of the pecking order it sounds like - unless you can find a new, high level team, where the bulk of the roster will be new kids and no established pecking order established yet.

                  You know your kid is respected as a player, due to the playing time, but the politics show up in team selection in my experience.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    This is in my opinion the HUGE problem with youth soccer. Loyalty to players due to seniority. Soccer in the US is not a meritocracy, rather it is a political process driven by pay-to-play and loyalty to "repeat customers" and this combined with daddy coaches, conflicted board members, relationships between player families and coaches/DOCs create an environment that can only be described as "political" and it is disgusting. Sport is supposed to be a meritocracy, free from politics.

                    In this particular case, the OP is stuck. If they pick up and move they will be the new kid on the block somewhere else and have to start out at the bottom of the pecking order all over again. I would say to stick around and build from the position you are at presently - somewhere in the middle of the pecking order it sounds like - unless you can find a new, high level team, where the bulk of the roster will be new kids and no established pecking order established yet.

                    You know your kid is respected as a player, due to the playing time, but the politics show up in team selection in my experience.
                    Very true and at ECNL clubs the politics can get particularly ugly when it comes to selection time. How often it happens at the OPs club may be tough to find out but he should try and find that piece of the puzzle. The good news it sounds like his player is working hard, playing well and her success should be apparent to all - except of course to the parents of the true bubble players who are worried about tryouts. They never see things clearly.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      I agree with the above post. This situation doesn't make much sense to me either though even for thoughtful parents it can be difficult to realistically assess your own child's ability. However playing time is a good measure of a coach's judgment and that seems solid. I think it's likely to be politics given the information here. Coach knows he will have a civil war if one of his longer-term players misses out on selection and your daughter makes it. It's a consideration that does get made even though it shouldn't. He may not want to confront the issue right now, but he isn't saying your daughter will never make it. If this rings true and you feel he may never wish to confront it then it might be an idea to look around next year. No need to fall out this year and time can sometimes change these situations unpredictably in your favor.

                      One point I would challenge in a couple of other posts. At that age I'll take the kid who makes 12 opportunities (or can get into a position to score 12 times) and misses 11 over the kid who makes 3 and converts 2. It's way easier to coach better finishing over time than it is to coach better positional/spatial instincts around goal. Your kid is going to be fine.
                      No, that wasn't my point. If the kid is creating the opportunities by herself, you are probably correct. But the poster was talking as if the game is played without a midfield and a defense. Many times the midfield and defense allows the forwards many opportunities. A good midfield is recovering the ball and providing the ball in space to the attacking forwards. A good attacking forward should be converting on more than 1 in 12 of these. however, if the midfield is poor and the forward has to create her own chances, maybe 1 in 12 is good. It depends on the team. My point was that "1 goal a game" does not necessarily mean that she/he is a good player.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        I hear you but...

                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        No, that wasn't my point. ... But the poster was talking as if the game is played without a midfield and a defense. Many times the midfield and defense allows the forwards many opportunities. A good midfield is recovering the ball and providing the ball in space to the attacking forwards. A good attacking forward should be converting on more than 1 in 12 of these. however, if the midfield is poor and the forward has to create her own chances, maybe 1 in 12 is good. It depends on the team. My point was that "1 goal a game" does not necessarily mean that she/he is a good player.
                        I understand your point, and you're right, scoring a goal now and again doesn't prove anything, it does indeed depend on the team, but I still disagree on the broader point of who you would rather have on your roster at that age in a realistic scenario. I have this conversation at tryouts every year when a junior coach sees a player miss chance after chance and wants to reject them without asking how it is they managed to be in the right place for so many more chances than other players.

                        Of course you are right. If two players are handed 12 identical chances that they did nothing to create and one scores one and another scores six, the kid with six goals is a better player. I would pick them too. But that scenario is largely fake. Where the striker is, what runs they make, how they move the defender, how they time their movement, their feel for where the ball will arrive and when, how aggressive they are in getting past challenges, all contribute to how many actual chances that striker gets. More in many ways than the ability of their team-mates. And if they are really getting 12 chances in a game they would be working all of this out in a way that their team-mates can plainly see and work with. That stuff is hard. (And I know you aren't really disagreeing with me on this, but it's a pet peeve)

                        So while I love a player at this age who can craft 3 chances and score twice and that player can absolutely become elite with that kind of ratio, I really really love a player who can craft 12 (even if they only score once) because it's likely to be easier in the end to get the 12-chance player to convert more often than it is to get the 3-chance player to create more. There are just so many more moving parts you need to help them with.

                        I'm not really arguing which one is better - and I was careful to say "at this age" - but which one it would be easier to develop into a truly elite player. They could both make it... but I'm lazy I guess!

                        Comment


                          #27
                          I will never win the political battle with these parents who have been with the club for 4+
                          years. But playtime is the key measurement. If she gets benched or doesn't play as much,
                          then I will know what is up. Simple, but powerful answer to a complex problem.
                          Some faith restored in TS. Sorta. :) Thanks.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            One way for her to improve tactically is to watch high level soccer (Premiere League or La Liga) with you to point out things that high level players do . My daughter watched with me specifically goalkeepers and she learned a lot from those experiences. She also saw lots of mistakes that were made and was shown what not to do as well. Perfect example is Carlos Bravo. He is a walking mistake waiting to happen.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              First year playing at a top premier club, pre-ECNL age. She scored about 1/3 of all goals, including quite a few game winners, from summer tournaments to current fall league.
                              We thought everything was going well. Btw, she isn't a huge brute girl. Other girls
                              are bigger and stronger than her. Also, I am not an ahole dad. I keep out of the way
                              and keep my head down.

                              Then, there was a special event that only about half of the best players could go attend,
                              but she was not invited. This is basically a pre-invitation to ECNL.
                              Not a very good night for her. :(

                              I talked to the coach and asked him what she needed to work on to get better.
                              He acknowledge that she helped the team win by making many goals. She has superb
                              technical skills with both feet, best on the team, great passing and finisher. But she was weak tactically and soccer IQ. Without these skills, she would not make an ECNL team.
                              He said that he knew these weaknesses coming in and he brought her in as a developmental player.

                              I was floored, like a kick in the nuts. I had no idea that she was a developmental player.
                              He didn't tell me this coming in or mention the weaknesses. He has a good reputation
                              as a coach of top level teams. He doesn't want her to leave, but did I miss the memo about being a developmental player with weaknesses with difficultly of making the ECNL team?

                              How could he know the trajectory at so young age?
                              My wife thinks it is political bs going on with other kids parents.
                              I think he is asking her to leave and giving us some time to make a transition to another club.

                              Is it that hard to get help with her tactical skills? How can she develop better soccer IQ?
                              After 5 months of seeing her play and practice, I would think that he could have
                              a sit down with her and talk about how to help her, without this drama.
                              Maybe I am expecting too much. Is he doing us a favor now? She was recruited by
                              other clubs, but switching isn't the issue. I want to find out what we can do help her.
                              I am really confused by this situation.
                              Did you ever think they were stringing you along to keep getting your $$$?

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                I will never win the political battle with these parents who have been with the club for 4+
                                years. But playtime is the key measurement. If she gets benched or doesn't play as much,
                                then I will know what is up. Simple, but powerful answer to a complex problem.
                                Some faith restored in TS. Sorta. :) Thanks.
                                Parents always believe they have all the answers. Players develop at different times. You don't know until you see it happening. Just don't put them under pressure.

                                Comment

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