Where to go for information

[Unregistered]

Love the symmetry in 28, 29 and 30.

You make that claim constantly about hedonism. Do you have any specifics or is that something you'll just keep saying for the next 5 years because you like the sound it makes in your head? What people have said to you is "we'll make our decisions, thank you," which is far different than a hedonist response. That is just so warped.

[Unregistered]

Love the symmetry in 28, 29 and 30.

You make that claim constantly about hedonism. Do you have any specifics or is that something you'll just keep saying for the next 5 years because you like the sound it makes in your head? What people have said to you is "we'll make our decisions, thank you," which is far different than a hedonist response. That is just so warped.

and the obsession continues

[Unregistered]

he·don·ism

/ˈhēdəˌnizəm,ˈhedənˌizəm/

noun

the pursuit of pleasure; sensual self-indulgence.
synonyms: self-indulgence, pleasure-seeking, self-gratification, lotus-eating, sybaritism,
intemperance, immoderation, extravagance, luxury, high living
antonyms: self-restraint

•the ethical theory that pleasure (in the sense of the satisfaction of desires) is the highest good and proper aim of human life.

[Unregistered]

ob·ses·sion
əbˈseSHən/
noun
the state of being obsessed with someone or something.
"she cared for him with a devotion bordering on obsession"
an idea or thought that continually preoccupies or intrudes on a person's mind.
plural noun: obsessions
"he was in the grip of an obsession he was powerless to resist"

[Unregistered]

ob·ses·sion
əbˈseSHən/
noun
the state of being obsessed with someone or something.
"she cared for him with a devotion bordering on obsession"
an idea or thought that continually preoccupies or intrudes on a person's mind.
plural noun: obsessions
"he was in the grip of an obsession he was powerless to resist"

That is Perspective to a tee!

[Unregistered]

That is Perspective to a tee!

And BTDT!!!

[Unregistered]

ok you whackjobs...settle down..i know your preference is to feel that every single post is some agenda hidden, conspiracy focused post, but they are not. Are many of them, yes based upon what I read. But do realize there are people who originally came to this site hoping to legitimately find helpful information on club soccer. My son has played club soccer for two years now, and about six months ago I too was looking to find some additional information on-line and googled a few things and this site came up. So I quickly learned you won't often find helpful information here because everyone assumes you are one of these people being mentioned all the time, but occasionally the blind squirrel does find an acorn. But I do enjoy the entertainment value in small doses. So if you actually can help someone on here now and then when a legitimate post is put out, kindly do so and share your experiences. If the person ends up being exposed as a fake with an agenda, go ahead and let them have it full force with all your negativity.

[Unregistered]

ok you whackjobs...settle down..i know your preference is to feel that every single post is some agenda hidden, conspiracy focused post, but they are not. Are many of them, yes based upon what I read. But do realize there are people who originally came to this site hoping to legitimately find helpful information on club soccer. My son has played club soccer for two years now, and about six months ago I too was looking to find some additional information on-line and googled a few things and this site came up. So I quickly learned you won't often find helpful information here because everyone assumes you are one of these people being mentioned all the time, but occasionally the blind squirrel does find an acorn. But I do enjoy the entertainment value in small doses. So if you actually can help someone on here now and then when a legitimate post is put out, kindly do so and share your experiences. If the person ends up being exposed as a fake with an agenda, go ahead and let them have it full force with all your negativity.

Thanks. Well said. TS can be a really useful tool if not for some of the "tools" that get on here and start their crap - like the posts just prior to yours. I try to just ignore all of that crap and either answer where I feel like I might be able to help or ask questions when I think I might get help. You're right, some of it is actually a bit entertaining, but honestly just gets old.

[Unregistered]

Thanks. Well said. TS can be a really useful tool if not for some of the "tools" that get on here and start their crap - like the posts just prior to yours. I try to just ignore all of that crap and either answer where I feel like I might be able to help or ask questions when I think I might get help. You're right, some of it is actually a bit entertaining, but honestly just gets old.

You meant 2 posts prior, correct? Or was that an intentional omission?

[Unregistered]

I have felt your pain and have said "no" to many opportunities because of it. There are a few here however who are fortunate that they have never had to say "no" to their children. Unfortunately they their hedonistic message seem to dominate this site these days.

--BTDT

Don't know who provided the definition of 'hedonism' but I think most of us already knew the definition.

What's strange is the employment of the word in this context.

Let's say for the sake of argument that a family is overreaching by supporting or even pushing their kid into club soccer. Let's assume that they are "spending too much" (whatever that really means). How does that imply hedonism and how in the world does that tell us whether those parents ever say to their kid? Seems quite presumptuous. Perhaps they are having their kid play to teach them discipline, or how to reach for maxing out on ability, or whatever. The more common attack would be that the parents overestimate their kids and are ignoring data that should be leading them to take it down a notch. Very odd logic yet again.

In our case, we have said NO to our children quite often. Not that it is anyone's business but we have been far from extravagant. We spent less on club soccer than most. We sent our kids to public school. We live in a very modest home so that our money would be available for college. We didn't buy our kids a bunch of extravagant stuff for Xmas. We haven't bought any of our kids a car or provided them with a car at college. Our kids are disciplined, appreciative, and hard workers.

Club soccer was not always fun. We didn't want to go to every tournament. We didn't enjoy long drives to ODP. We had some coaches that weren't great. We had periods when things weren't going great. Club soccer is a very mixed bag. But my kid would not have played college soccer without it (or something equivalent in time, money, and effort). And while I am very aware this is not true for everyone, college soccer was additive to his overall college experience. He is a better person for it, and will be more prepared for adulthood because of it. And he was willing to dedicate himself and put in the long hours of work to make it all happen in his favor in the end. Supporting him in that seemed far from hedonistic. Rather, it seemed like the least we could do as parents.

[Unregistered]

^^^
very nice post

[Unregistered]

Don't know who provided the definition of 'hedonism' but I think most of us already knew the definition.

What's strange is the employment of the word in this context.

Let's say for the sake of argument that a family is overreaching by supporting or even pushing their kid into club soccer. Let's assume that they are "spending too much" (whatever that really means). How does that imply hedonism and how in the world does that tell us whether those parents ever say to their kid? Seems quite presumptuous. Perhaps they are having their kid play to teach them discipline, or how to reach for maxing out on ability, or whatever. The more common attack would be that the parents overestimate their kids and are ignoring data that should be leading them to take it down a notch. Very odd logic yet again.

In our case, we have said NO to our children quite often. Not that it is anyone's business but we have been far from extravagant. We spent less on club soccer than most. We sent our kids to public school. We live in a very modest home so that our money would be available for college. We didn't buy our kids a bunch of extravagant stuff for Xmas. We haven't bought any of our kids a car or provided them with a car at college. Our kids are disciplined, appreciative, and hard workers.

Club soccer was not always fun. We didn't want to go to every tournament. We didn't enjoy long drives to ODP. We had some coaches that weren't great. We had periods when things weren't going great. Club soccer is a very mixed bag. But my kid would not have played college soccer without it (or something equivalent in time, money, and effort). And while I am very aware this is not true for everyone, college soccer was additive to his overall college experience. He is a better person for it, and will be more prepared for adulthood because of it. And he was willing to dedicate himself and put in the long hours of work to make it all happen in his favor in the end. Supporting him in that seemed far from hedonistic. Rather, it seemed like the least we could do as parents.

You clearly are talking about the past tense and so your views might be a little bit disconnected from the current realities. It is probably safe to assume that costs have exploded since your days and that has had a material impact on how different people now value their involvement with club soccer. That cost escalation has seemed to polarize opinion more so than in the past.

I would guess that most of us feel that we support our children but the obvious question always comes down to the cost of doing that. That is why the debate always comes back to the end goal. You clearly saw soccer as a means to an end for your children as many of us do. The issue always seems to be that some elements here really object to taking the next logical step and justifying the means they used by the perceived value of the end goal they received. I think that is where the idea of hedonism comes in because those elements simply do not want to accept that there are economic realities that force others to put limits on their support or question their end goal.

[Unregistered]

You meant 2 posts prior, correct? Or was that an intentional omission?

Yes, a few of prior posts. I just understand why two or three people have to go on these ridiculous rants that have nothing to do with the thread. They feel the need to pick apart a word or phrase and go on and on and back and forth jabbing at each other. It's just stupid and in no way helps to answer the question of the original poster.

[Unregistered]

Yes, a few of prior posts. I just understand why two or three people have to go on these ridiculous rants that have nothing to do with the thread. They feel the need to pick apart a word or phrase and go on and on and back and forth jabbing at each other. It's just stupid and in no way helps to answer the question of the original poster.

The OP's post was bogus, clearly so. Threads that start like that are always doomed to turn out like others of the same ilk.

[Unregistered]

You clearly are talking about the past tense and so your views might be a little bit disconnected from the current realities. It is probably safe to assume that costs have exploded since your days and that has had a material impact on how different people now value their involvement with club soccer. That cost escalation has seemed to polarize opinion more so than in the past.

I would guess that most of us feel that we support our children but the obvious question always comes down to the cost of doing that. That is why the debate always comes back to the end goal. You clearly saw soccer as a means to an end for your children as many of us do. The issue always seems to be that some elements here really object to taking the next logical step and justifying the means they used by the perceived value of the end goal they received. I think that is where the idea of hedonism comes in because those elements simply do not want to accept that there are economic realities that force others to put limits on their support or question their end goal.

First of all, I'm pretty sure you had the exact same 'concerns' 7-8 years ago.

That aside, it's not clear who you are talking about. YOU bring the conversation back to the end goal. That's your concern, your argument...and usually you make the argument without respect to what others can afford. In other words, you criticize participation even when the costs can be handled if the end goal doesn't seem to weigh out properly in your eyes. The end goal was not a major factor in our decisions. Our kid did not know he was going to be viable until his senior year, and even then he wasn't sure what would happen once he arrived on campus freshman year. And we wouldn't have viewed ourselves as wasting our money if had not ended up playing in college. I won't dispute that the costs are greater now, and perhaps today there would be limit where we would decide to opt out. But again, it's not clear who you are talking about...the families who pay whatever they pay to have their kids on B, C, and D teams, or the kids on higher costs A teams where the travel demands may jack up the costs considerably. Most youth club families are protected from those higher costs by simply never making those teams. The kids who do make those most elite teams (DAP, ECNL, NEFC Elite, etc) are sort of by definition the most serious, tend to be the most informed, and perhaps do have clearer end goals...and perhaps some don't have end goals that measure up for you in terms of the ROI you are so obsessed with. Each family has to make that decision. If they simply can't afford it at all then that makes their decision. If they can, but YOU still object, well, then, what should they do? I think your better bet is to attack parental overestimation of their kids and those parents all of us have seen who are convinced their kid is a special talent, and will keep moving their kid from club to club until the magic they are sure they deserve happens for them. That's not hedonism as much as parental blindness. Otherwise, families have all sorts of things they consider in deciding what to support with their children, including balance in the family, and what the dynamics will be like years down the road when the family splurged on one kid who ends up at Harvard but then chooses to have a tight belt with another who they only allow to go to Bridgewater. Might make family gatherings 25 and 30 years down the road a little awkward. Our own value system leads us to treat our kids pretty evenly relative to their abilities, and within the context of what our resources allow, we aren't going to shortchange one kid relative to what another one gets.