College D3: Just need some town soccer and you'll be fine

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[QUOTE=Unregistered;1332637]

beautifully stated.

can we all agree to this prose?

I certainly can!

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...The only thing that I am saying is that I don't think that the D1 soccer in the IVY leagues is anywhere close to the top in the country.

No, that's clearly not the only thing you've been saying, BTNT--since no one has ever disagreed with that obvious thought.

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Ok. So all of these supremely talented soccer players turn down D1 offers to go to overpriced D3 schools. Sure, sure they do.

Please do not operate any heavy machinery tonight.

What is next...Nescac is more exclusive than the Ivies?

For those fortunate few players with excellent academic credentials it is sometimes a decision among mid-Ivies and Amherst/Williams type D3s. We are likely only talking abut a handful of players a year in such a position.

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For those fortunate few players with excellent academic credentials it is sometimes a decision among mid-Ivies and Amherst/Williams type D3s. We are likely only talking abut a handful of players a year in such a position.

Would you rather be a bench warmer at Cornell or be a difference maker at Johns Hopkins or Wash U? Would it make a difference if you wanted to become a doctor?

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Would you rather be a bench warmer at Cornell or be a difference maker at Johns Hopkins or Wash U? Would it make a difference if you wanted to become a doctor?

How is a bench warmer at Cornell going to be a difference maker at Wash U? Did you mean the other way around?

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Would you rather be a bench warmer at Cornell or be a difference maker at Johns Hopkins or Wash U? Would it make a difference if you wanted to become a doctor?

Well known fact that bench warmers tend to become dentists or proctologists. :)








/jk

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Ok. So all of these supremely talented soccer players turn down D1 offers to go to overpriced D3 schools. Sure, sure they do.

Please do not operate any heavy machinery tonight.

What is next...Nescac is more exclusive than the Ivies?

What is next...Nescac is more exclusive than the Ivies?
Would you rather be a bench warmer at Cornell or be a difference maker at Johns Hopkins or Wash U? Would it make a difference if you wanted to become a doctor?

How is a bench warmer at Cornell going to be a difference maker at Wash U? Did you mean the other way around?

First, I will agree, in part, with the first comment. I would not have my son turn down a D1 athletic scholarship to play soccer at Duke, UCLA, Stanford, Georgetown, Notre Dame or any of these other top soccer and top academic programs. However, such scholarships are uncommon. You would be more successful hustling for academic scholarships or community monies. At the same time, I would not have my son turn down an academic scholarship at a top soccer and top academic D3 school. His first priority is to attend the best academic school that will offer the education and future that he hopes to have.

The next comments seem to address the IVYs. There are NO athletic scholarships given at the IVYs. Also, as previously stated the soccer at the IVYs is NOT the top tier soccer in the country. Not even in the top 38. Providence college is above the IVYs in D1 soccer. The IVY league, as a group, had an overall losing record against all teams and do not play a very challenging schedule when considering top 38 ranked schools. That being said, if my son were accepted at a Division 1 school, including the IVY (despite the lower soccer level), NESCAC, or UAA school that challenged him in the classroom and on the field, I would be proud to see it happen.

NESCAC admissions according to all statistics are considered highly selective......similar to the IVYs. Are they exclusive?? As in 'we only let in legacy kids'? Both groups are selective on who they admit to their schools. Do you really think that it is easy to get into schools like Bowdoin, Middlebury, Tufts, Williams, Wesleyan, Amherst, Bates, Colby, Trinity, or Hamilton?

Would the bench warmer at Cornell make a difference at Johns Hopkins or Wash U? I realize we are now incorporating the UAA, another top academic and top soccer league in Division III. One part of this answer is that my son would not want to be a bench warmer at any school whether it be D1, 2, or 3.
I don't think the bench warmer at Cornell would make a difference at Johns Hopkins, Wash U, Carnegie Mellon, Brandeis, Amherst, Williams etc etc. I would tell that kid to go where they think the education would be best for their future ambitions...........God forbid that be a priority.

There are many variables to play into what school a kid selects. While sports may be one, it is far from being the only one.

Lastly, who is BTNT??? It is not me.

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There are more than 4600 colleges and universities in the United States. This makes the top 50 essentially the top 1%. How much difference do you think really exists in the output of these top 50? Thirty of these fifty are where they are based on the amount of grants and research that the school has and not necessarily the output of student. This does not necessarily equate to quality teaching nor does it automatically get your son or daughter a job or a graduate school spot at the end of 4 years. Having visited both IVY and NESCAC schools I am impressed with the difference in time in which classes and labs are taught/directed by the actualy professor vs. the graduate student, the latter of which is not present in the NESCAC schools with the exception of Wesleyan. However, at Wesleyan the classes are still taught by the professors.
Show me the output data i.e. what happens to the graduates and prove yourself correct.....or just continue with the snappy retorts that you have provided so far, none of which could possible by the output of a quality IVY league education. If you yourself are an IVY league grad, then I should thank you for helping prove my point.

As for the soccer, there are actually at least four levels of college soccer: NCAA 1, 2, 3; NAIA
Division three is one of the levels. I should certainly hope that Notre Dame and Maryland can beat the NCAA III champion, however this does not in anyway prove that the IVY league soccer is of any high quality, certainly not at the highest level that the top 38 Division I teams are at. Face, kids don't go to IVY league schools to play at the highest level of soccer in the country, they go their for the 'education'. You should not be ashamed to admit that. Now, if we were talking about Lacrosse, then you can get both at the IVY league schools.....but not soccer.

I can't wait to hear another snappy IVY league retort.

So based on the Forbes list, you agree tha the IVY is better academically, but just not for you?

Funny, how you use the Forbes rankings when you thought it supported your argument.

But when it is pointed out that the IVIES are ranked consistently higher on the same list you reference, you change the criteria. All of the data in the world would not change your mind. You are a zealot, you cannot bear the thought that JR. is not among the elite of the elite. That is your issue, not mine.

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So based on the Forbes list, you agree tha the IVY is better academically, but just not for you?

Funny, how you use the Forbes rankings when you thought it supported your argument.

But when it is pointed out that the IVIES are ranked consistently higher on the same list you reference, you change the criteria. All of the data in the world would not change your mind. You are a zealot, you cannot bear the thought that JR. is not among the elite of the elite. That is your issue, not mine.

not sure how you come to this conclusion. I stated that there are 8 NESCAC and 8 IVYs within the top 50 schools in the country, among which I don't see much difference. I would be very happy if my son went to any of these schools provided he can study what he wants. Some differences include who teaches the class and perhaps class size. For the NESCAC schools professors teach and the class sizes are small. There is greater variability in class size at the larger IVY and it is not uncommon for a grad student to teach the class.

As for the soccer......I am glad that you have stopped arguing this point and have accepted that IVY league soccer is mediocre.

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not sure how you come to this conclusion. I stated that there are 8 NESCAC and 8 IVYs within the top 50 schools in the country, among which I don't see much difference. I would be very happy if my son went to any of these schools provided he can study what he wants. Some differences include who teaches the class and perhaps class size. For the NESCAC schools professors teach and the class sizes are small. There is greater variability in class size at the larger IVY and it is not uncommon for a grad student to teach the class.

As for the soccer......I am glad that you have stopped arguing this point and have accepted that IVY league soccer is mediocre.

Use your own Forbes list as a reference. Ivies as a whole are ranked higher.

As for the soccer, if the IVIES are mediocre, how poorly do you rank NESCAC?

Are you actually delusional enought to thing that the NESCAC is top notch?

You must be an ECNL guy, you get to make proclamations without ever having to back them up.

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Use your own Forbes list as a reference. Ivies as a whole are ranked higher.

As for the soccer, if the IVIES are mediocre, how poorly do you rank NESCAC?

Are you actually delusional enought to thing that the NESCAC is top notch?

You must be an ECNL guy, you get to make proclamations without ever having to back them up.

First, I have alluded to my 'son' many times so I am not a looney parent of a girl playing on the Stars, Scorps, NEFC, or GPS.

Second, I said that it was my feeling that if you are in the top 50 schools out of more then 4600 in this country then I feel you are on the top tier of education. I might qualify this statement by alluding to the ranking methods which include grants and research. These variables contribute more significantly to about 30 of the those top 50, the majority of which include the IVYs i.e. the IVYs might get more consideration due to grants and research instead of the actual education. Nevertheless, it is my feeling (right or wrong) that the top 50 are the top 50. Within this top 50 are 8 NESCAC schools and the 8 IVYs. It is my opinion (right or wrong) that this would support a high quality education in the NESCACs and similar to that in the IVYs.......again.....my opinion.

Soccer is secondary but still quite important part of college life for different reasons, all of which interact. Clearly, I can't say it enough times for you.....IVY league soccer is NOT top notch. Maybe not even second tier in the country regarding Division I. NESCAC soccer is very good and competitive. Williams and Amherst are particularly good. The UAA might have better teams than NESCAC.

As for the student, it is best to pick the right academic environment and combine it with the best soccer he/she can obtain....in our case....'he'.

If your kid is going to college to play soccer then you are potentially tossing quite a bit of money away without stressing the academics. If they are wanting to play at the top level of Division I soccer and, who knows, may want to play pro.....then don't go to the IVYs.

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One can certainly argue that the college experience might be richer with a D3 program due to more flexibility and a less arduous off season.

But let's not pretend D3 is equal to or better than D1 from a soccer perspective as others have tried to claim. It is simply not the case. Be happy with your choice and realize there are pros and cons with every decision.

But let's not also pretend that being in a school with a D1 label automatically makes the soccer program better than D2 or D3. Schools are not sorted into divisions by some neutral NCAA talent evaluator. Schools choose their own athletic affiliations for a variety of reasons - I would read the NCAA's "philosophy" for each division if you want to know the distinguishing characteristics.

Let's also realize that the school's decision to participate in a given division may have nothing to do with soccer (men's or women's). A school may elect to go D1 because of an outstanding basketball or baseball program, in which case soccer goes along for the ride regardless of the quality of the team. Some schools may also choose D1 as a means of marketing the school to students.

On the flip side, there are many D3 schools that play D3 simply because they have chosen to opt out of the whole scholarship race, or to save money by competing locally, or (as laid out by the NCAA D3 philosophy) to make academics the primary focus of the student athlete.

As a result, there are plenty of marginal D1 soccer programs and plenty of very talented D2 and D3 programs. There are also plenty of talented soccer players to fill out the D2 and D3 ranks who either: (a) have no desire to make a career out of soccer (even if they have the talent); or (b) fully realize that they are not in that fraction of a percent of college soccer players with the talent to make the jump to the next level. These players, being considerably smarter than many TS posters, know that their future is dependent on the quality of their academic education and choose their schooling appropriately, while also trying to feed their desire to stay in competition.

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Soccer is secondary but still quite important part of college life for different reasons, all of which interact. Clearly, I can't say it enough times for you.....IVY league soccer is NOT top notch. Maybe not even second tier in the country regarding Division I. NESCAC soccer is very good and competitive. Williams and Amherst are particularly good. The UAA might have better teams than NESCAC.

Do you believe that NESCAC soccer is superior to IVY soccer?

Simple question.

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But let's not also pretend that being in a school with a D1 label automatically makes the soccer program better than D2 or D3. Schools are not sorted into divisions by some neutral NCAA talent evaluator. Schools choose their own athletic affiliations for a variety of reasons - I would read the NCAA's "philosophy" for each division if you want to know the distinguishing characteristics.

Let's also realize that the school's decision to participate in a given division may have nothing to do with soccer (men's or women's). A school may elect to go D1 because of an outstanding basketball or baseball program, in which case soccer goes along for the ride regardless of the quality of the team. Some schools may also choose D1 as a means of marketing the school to students.

On the flip side, there are many D3 schools that play D3 simply because they have chosen to opt out of the whole scholarship race, or to save money by competing locally, or (as laid out by the NCAA D3 philosophy) to make academics the primary focus of the student athlete.

As a result, there are plenty of marginal D1 soccer programs and plenty of very talented D2 and D3 programs. There are also plenty of talented soccer players to fill out the D2 and D3 ranks who either: (a) have no desire to make a career out of soccer (even if they have the talent); or (b) fully realize that they are not in that fraction of a percent of college soccer players with the talent to make the jump to the next level. These players, being considerably smarter than many TS posters, know that their future is dependent on the quality of their academic education and choose their schooling appropriately, while also trying to feed their desire to stay in competition.

Wow.......NESCACitis in full swing.

Get treatment now!

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First, I have alluded to my 'son' many times so I am not a looney parent of a girl playing on the Stars, Scorps, NEFC, or GPS.

Second, I said that it was my feeling that if you are in the top 50 schools out of more then 4600 in this country then I feel you are on the top tier of education. I might qualify this statement by alluding to the ranking methods which include grants and research. These variables contribute more significantly to about 30 of the those top 50, the majority of which include the IVYs i.e. the IVYs might get more consideration due to grants and research instead of the actual education. Nevertheless, it is my feeling (right or wrong) that the top 50 are the top 50. Within this top 50 are 8 NESCAC schools and the 8 IVYs. It is my opinion (right or wrong) that this would support a high quality education in the NESCACs and similar to that in the IVYs.......again.....my opinion.

Soccer is secondary but still quite important part of college life for different reasons, all of which interact. Clearly, I can't say it enough times for you.....IVY league soccer is NOT top notch. Maybe not even second tier in the country regarding Division I. NESCAC soccer is very good and competitive. Williams and Amherst are particularly good. The UAA might have better teams than NESCAC.

As for the student, it is best to pick the right academic environment and combine it with the best soccer he/she can obtain....in our case....'he'.

If your kid is going to college to play soccer then you are potentially tossing quite a bit of money away without stressing the academics. If they are wanting to play at the top level of Division I soccer and, who knows, may want to play pro.....then don't go to the IVYs.

Williams, a NESCAC school, is ranked #1. So the ranking methodology must not be punitive. Nice try.

NESCAC soccer is "very good" and IVY soccer is not "Top Notch"