Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Promotion Relegation TTL

Collapse
X
  •  
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Promotion Relegation TTL

    Having a hard time deciding where to place a couple teams this year and wondering how everyone else does it.

    I'm looking for comparable teams, appropriate competition. One team had been premier but were bottom of the table. I have another that was top of D2 - but that team is propped up by a few very, very strong players.

    If I understand OYSA's email I have til the 5th to decide which means I can't decide after a couple tournaments those teams are doing in August.

    Your input is appreciated.

    Thanks!

    #2
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    Having a hard time deciding where to place a couple teams this year and wondering how everyone else does it.

    I'm looking for comparable teams, appropriate competition. One team had been premier but were bottom of the table. I have another that was top of D2 - but that team is propped up by a few very, very strong players.

    If I understand OYSA's email I have til the 5th to decide which means I can't decide after a couple tournaments those teams are doing in August.

    Your input is appreciated.

    Thanks!
    Is the "top of D2" team, with a few very strong players, your A team?

    If so, the best thing you could do for these kids is offer refund their money, and recommend another club for them, one that has D1 or premier teams in the age group. If they want to stay with your club, let them--some kids like to be kings of a small hill, others have personal commitments or conflicts which limit their club choices to whoever is in the neighborhood.

    And if this is your B or C team--why are these kids there? If the answer is "because there is no room on the A team"--you have 19 strong kids and 16 roster spots, for instance--that's a harder problem to solve, but the correct answer might be "find them another club". At minimum, make sure they are getting practice opportunities (and even getting to guest play) with your A team, if they are good enough to hang with those players.

    The best thing might be for them to stick around--and perhaps discuss with the parents. Some parents may prefer a more competitive schedule. Others may want to go win that Founders Cup.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      Is the "top of D2" team, with a few very strong players, your A team?

      If so, the best thing you could do for these kids is offer refund their money, and recommend another club for them, one that has D1 or premier teams in the age group. If they want to stay with your club, let them--some kids like to be kings of a small hill, others have personal commitments or conflicts which limit their club choices to whoever is in the neighborhood.

      And if this is your B or C team--why are these kids there? If the answer is "because there is no room on the A team"--you have 19 strong kids and 16 roster spots, for instance--that's a harder problem to solve, but the correct answer might be "find them another club". At minimum, make sure they are getting practice opportunities (and even getting to guest play) with your A team, if they are good enough to hang with those players.

      The best thing might be for them to stick around--and perhaps discuss with the parents. Some parents may prefer a more competitive schedule. Others may want to go win that Founders Cup.
      Your response says a lot about you and more about what you don't know. Get out of Portland, get out of the metro area.

      Some places their is only one club, with one team, with volunteer coaches, who "develop" whomever they get who would never pay, or couldn't afford to pay more than their split of league fees.

      My advice:

      If you're at the top, easily, move up a notch. If you're at the bottom, go down. Email coaches you have competed against in the past, ask them where they are going, what their opinion of your team is (if they remember) and go from there.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        Having a hard time deciding where to place a couple teams this year and wondering how everyone else does it.

        I'm looking for comparable teams, appropriate competition. One team had been premier but were bottom of the table. I have another that was top of D2 - but that team is propped up by a few very, very strong players.

        If I understand OYSA's email I have til the 5th to decide which means I can't decide after a couple tournaments those teams are doing in August.

        Your input is appreciated.

        Thanks!
        The premier team should drop down. Might hurt some egos but if they can't compete it might help them to play at their level to find the improvement they need to go back up.

        The D2 team. Try to schedule a friendly with a D1 team in your area and/or check with the other teams in your flight from Spring and Fall.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          Email coaches you have competed against in the past, ask them where they are going, what their opinion of your team is (if they remember) and go from there.
          NO! HORRIBLE IDEA! Talking Soccer is a much better resource than your fellow coaches.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Your response says a lot about you and more about what you don't know. Get out of Portland, get out of the metro area.

            Some places their is only one club, with one team, with volunteer coaches, who "develop" whomever they get who would never pay, or couldn't afford to pay more than their split of league fees.

            My advice:

            If you're at the top, easily, move up a notch. If you're at the bottom, go down. Email coaches you have competed against in the past, ask them where they are going, what their opinion of your team is (if they remember) and go from there.
            I covered that case. Some kids outgrow the neighborhood club. It happens. If he/she wants to stay and play there, that's fine--but sometimes the best thing for a kid is to move on.

            Clubs are there to serve the players and their families, not the other way around.

            Comment


              #7
              Says the guy who has no clue that in most of Oregon there is one club per town (meaning “moving on” involves a 2-3 hour (or more) round trip commute. You should get out of Portland more, buddy. Oregon is a big state.

              Comment


                #8
                Like I said, get out of the city.

                Or maybe you are just new and don't know. There is a lot more to Oregon than the metro area and a whole lot of players/parents that going to pay thousands of dollars to play in TTL.

                How many clubs do you know in Madras? How about Lebanon? Or Amity. Or Dallas. A kid may have 1 club to choose from within an hours drive. That they can both get to practice and afford to play on.

                So you have teams with a mix of talent and as a "team" they look for the right environment to "compete" in.

                Your other statement, that tells me you are new, uninformed and lack perspective is this notion "the club" is there to serve. Bro, do you even know...that many clubs are just the parents themselves? Yes, their are actual clubs that weren't created to make money, but to provide a soccer playing experience for kids.

                To the OP. Email the coaches. Maybe you'll get a straight answer. And good luck!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  Says the guy who has no clue that in most of Oregon there is one club per town (meaning “moving on” involves a 2-3 hour (or more) round trip commute. You should get out of Portland more, buddy. Oregon is a big state.
                  There is an Oregon outside of Portland? Who knew?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    There is an Oregon outside of Portland? Who knew?
                    Maybe a joke, maybe true, but there are a lot of people.... a lot of people that have this mentality. Through ignorance or elitism. And that is just one thing wrong with American Soccer.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      Like I said, get out of the city.

                      Or maybe you are just new and don't know. There is a lot more to Oregon than the metro area and a whole lot of players/parents that going to pay thousands of dollars to play in TTL.

                      How many clubs do you know in Madras? How about Lebanon? Or Amity. Or Dallas. A kid may have 1 club to choose from within an hours drive. That they can both get to practice and afford to play on.

                      So you have teams with a mix of talent and as a "team" they look for the right environment to "compete" in.

                      Your other statement, that tells me you are new, uninformed and lack perspective is this notion "the club" is there to serve. Bro, do you even know...that many clubs are just the parents themselves? Yes, their are actual clubs that weren't created to make money, but to provide a soccer playing experience for kids.

                      To the OP. Email the coaches. Maybe you'll get a straight answer. And good luck!

                      I'm well aware of parts of Oregon beyond the PDX metro area/Willamette valley, thank you very much. Outside of a few specific clubs in a few specific cities (Bend, Medford, Klamath Falls), generally the clubs elsewhere are NOT playing in OYSA state leagues however--since the original question concerned OYSA seeding, an assumption was made that the club in question was somewhere close by.

                      Obviously, if you are playing in Pendleton, the choices are very limited, and a 2-3 hour drive to play soccer is not reasonable for most families. (Some families will do this--in many other sports, elite-level training is often only found in a few select major cities).

                      OTOH, if you live anywhere between Vancouver and Salem, chances are you have multiple clubs within reasonable driving distance. (Both Amity and Dallas have Salem within a half-hour drive; and two premier-level clubs located therein). Not all families can drive even this distance--some don't have cars, others have two working parents who can't shuttle junior to soccer practice and back. Other factors besides distance may impact a family's club choice--money being a big one.

                      I generally assume that most youth soccer clubs aren't around to make money--and that includes both small rec clubs that are entirely volunteer-run, to some of the largest legacy clubs that have long been active in their communities and don't merely exist to enrich some fat-cat director.

                      That said, I will stand by my original remark: depending on the circumstances, some times the best thing a club can do for a player is to encourage him to move on. "Depending on the circumstances" covers a lot of ground, and in many cases staying put is the best or only reasonable choice. But if you're a coach at a club like LYS or Thelo or Aloha United or Pacific, and you have a player on your roster who is better than everyone else, this is a conversation that might be worth having.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        I'm well aware of parts of Oregon beyond the PDX metro area/Willamette valley, thank you very much. Outside of a few specific clubs in a few specific cities (Bend, Medford, Klamath Falls), generally the clubs elsewhere are NOT playing in OYSA state leagues however--since the original question concerned OYSA seeding, an assumption was made that the club in question was somewhere close by.

                        Obviously, if you are playing in Pendleton, the choices are very limited, and a 2-3 hour drive to play soccer is not reasonable for most families. (Some families will do this--in many other sports, elite-level training is often only found in a few select major cities).

                        OTOH, if you live anywhere between Vancouver and Salem, chances are you have multiple clubs within reasonable driving distance. (Both Amity and Dallas have Salem within a half-hour drive; and two premier-level clubs located therein). Not all families can drive even this distance--some don't have cars, others have two working parents who can't shuttle junior to soccer practice and back. Other factors besides distance may impact a family's club choice--money being a big one.

                        I generally assume that most youth soccer clubs aren't around to make money--and that includes both small rec clubs that are entirely volunteer-run, to some of the largest legacy clubs that have long been active in their communities and don't merely exist to enrich some fat-cat director.

                        That said, I will stand by my original remark: depending on the circumstances, some times the best thing a club can do for a player is to encourage him to move on. "Depending on the circumstances" covers a lot of ground, and in many cases staying put is the best or only reasonable choice. But if you're a coach at a club like LYS or Thelo or Aloha United or Pacific, and you have a player on your roster who is better than everyone else, this is a conversation that might be worth having.
                        OK, I think you "clarified" and back tracked a bit.

                        So assume the OP is in Lebanon and there really are no other clubs. Or 4H in Salem and CFC is too expensive. Help the op out, how should s(he) go about evaluating his team to ensure they end up in the right division. Also, it's a little late to refer a player somewhere else.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          OK, I think you "clarified" and back tracked a bit.

                          So assume the OP is in Lebanon and there really are no other clubs. Or 4H in Salem and CFC is too expensive. Help the op out, how should s(he) go about evaluating his team to ensure they end up in the right division. Also, it's a little late to refer a player somewhere else.
                          Well...

                          1) If they played in OYSA last year, and their roster was mostly stable, they know how they did. That's a starting point.
                          2) If you can get to a tournament, even if its a smaller local one, it gives you an opportunity to evaluate.
                          3) Barring that, set up friendlies with other clubs. Many clubs will cooperate with that, especially if they have the same problem.
                          4) In general, I'd be tempted to play lower in fall league and higher in spring league, especially if you are interested in competing in Presidents Cup. Every year, some team signs up for OYSA premier and gets clobbered, but cannot do Presidents Cup because it's closed to premier teams.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            Having a hard time deciding where to place a couple teams this year and wondering how everyone else does it.

                            I'm looking for comparable teams, appropriate competition. One team had been premier but were bottom of the table. I have another that was top of D2 - but that team is propped up by a few very, very strong players.

                            If I understand OYSA's email I have til the 5th to decide which means I can't decide after a couple tournaments those teams are doing in August.

                            Your input is appreciated.

                            Thanks!
                            My opinion on this is that if you're at the top or bottom of a division you should move (unless of course you're at the top of premier or bottom of D2). Teams really should feel good about placing mid-pack, that shows they're in the right spot and win some/lose some. If you're winning every game in D2 it might feel good to win, but it's really doing nothing for the development of players.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              Having a hard time deciding where to place a couple teams this year and wondering how everyone else does it.

                              I'm looking for comparable teams, appropriate competition. One team had been premier but were bottom of the table. I have another that was top of D2 - but that team is propped up by a few very, very strong players.

                              If I understand OYSA's email I have til the 5th to decide which means I can't decide after a couple tournaments those teams are doing in August.

                              Your input is appreciated.

                              Thanks!
                              It's a tough call. You didn't mention age groups and that's an important consideration. A new year as 14s is tough for many as puberty kicks in. High school ages likely to stay at the same level unless finished last year in the bottom of the league.

                              Are you saying that yo teams didn't do any May/June/July tournaments?
                              Teams do a few summer tournaments so the coaches have time to assess their teams' strengths and vulnerabilities as well as get an early look at last year's competition. Then they have a better idea of where their teams should place for league play. There is a downside to this plan because some players might be unavailable for a tournament so guest players are brought on making it difficult to determine how well your team will do against those teams in league.

                              Consider looking for friendlies before the 5th.

                              You need these games not only for assessment but also so your parents see how the team looks in comparison. Long ago, OYSA had a U11 / U12 (2)-weekend league qualifier tournament called the CQTs and PQTs. (U11 teams would have to play in Fall 12 leagues. There wasn't a U11 Fall League.) The lowest teams were bumped out after the first weekend's results and became D3 teams. The remaining teams advanced to the next weekend and continued playing 20-minute games to determine which teams would play Classic D1 and D2, while the top 4 U11s were put into 12 Premier League. The top Premier teams (4? or 6? out of 12 teams) after Fall League earned slots for the following year. The lowest teams in D2-Premier (except 11s who played in the next year's CQT/PQT) were relegated down to the next league division. Sometimes I think it needs to be done this way again.

                              Comment

                              Previously entered content was automatically saved. Restore or Discard.
                              Auto-Saved
                              x
                              Insert: Thumbnail Small Medium Large Fullsize Remove  
                              x
                              Working...
                              X