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The putrid business of competitive youth soccer

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    #31
    Am I incorrect that soccer is the only sport that holds tryouts for the next season as soon as the current season is over? Seriously folks. They hold tryouts, then take 6-8 weeks off. Every other sport I know of takes 6-8 weeks off, then has tryouts for the new season, then rolls right into practicing. I may be wrong, but it sure looks to me like the concept is to high pressure you immediately so you can't think about it and take your kid (which equates to your money) somewhere else. Maybe I'm wrong.

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      Lets start with this: a huge number of kids are interested in soccer FOR FUN. A system needs to be in place to inexpensively accommodate FUN play in local leagues. This is appropriate for 85-90% of the kids that demonstrate an interest in soccer. Like any human activity, just cause your kid likes to run around after a round ball does not mean you should make soccer a huge part of your kid's childhood.

      The balance 10-15% should be playing in elite leagues with kids that are also elite/ talented players. Since everyone and their grandparents and possibly even their dead relatives think their kid is the best player they've ever seen, you need to have true talent evaluators weeding out the 10-15%. This may be hard in rural Illinois but it is entirely possible in places like SoFla, SoCal, Orlando, etc.

      This 10-15% should learn how to play and learn proper technique BEFORE heading into anything resembling serious, intense competition. That means LEARNING until about u11 or u12 with limited competition.

      What I have described while it is logical is the OPPOSITE of what actually exists. We have a system that gets the 85-90% that should just be having fun into an expensive and absurd travel club system when in reality they will never be soccer players and its not even on the radar. The 10-15% is largely not identified until DA (u12 or older) and then the process has its politics. Competition is all parents and clubs care about starting at u8. Instead of learning, they compete at 9 and 10. Competition inevitably becomes kick and chase. Why not make a simple run change: MANDATING clubs to play out the back. No punting from the GK or you award an indirect free kick. Simple enough right?
      With this simple rule change, you will see who can play and who can't. A soccer player is not the kid that runs quickly after a punt. It is the kid that receives a ball under intense pressure, knows how to protect the ball and plays with his teammates to get the ball to midfield. Or the kid that shows and assists his teammate to get out of pressure. Those are kids with talent and that understand the game. Kids with technical ability and game smarts to play effectively out the back. If we make this ONE rule change, we will be rewarding those that know how to play and providing a disincentive to play kick and chase. Simple enough right? So what's FYSA's stance on this? It would be a mess., right? Because for kids to play out the back they actually need to be coached. And we know the coaching in most FYSA clubs is inadequate, even though we want parents to pay $2000-$3000 yearly for what they in their ignorance think is adequate coaching.

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        With this simple rule change, you will see who can play and who can't. A soccer player is not the kid that runs quickly after a punt. It is the kid that receives a ball under intense pressure, knows how to protect the ball and plays with his teammates to get the ball to midfield. Or the kid that shows and assists his teammate to get out of pressure. Those are kids with talent and that understand the game. Kids with technical ability and game smarts to play effectively out the back. If we make this ONE rule change, we will be rewarding those that know how to play and providing a disincentive to play kick and chase. Simple enough right? So what's FYSA's stance on this? It would be a mess., right? Because for kids to play out the back they actually need to be coached. And we know the coaching in most FYSA clubs is inadequate, even though we want parents to pay $2000-$3000 yearly for what they in their ignorance think is adequate coaching.
        The USSF small-sided initiative actually implements a form of your proposed rule. I think it is U10 that will have a "retreat" line painted on the field (at least in early versions of the proposal). Opposing players will be required to retreat behind the line when the keeper picks up the ball. The keeper is then required to distribute the ball to a defensive player. I don't remember whether punting was explicitly prohibited, but it makes sense given the "no-heading" policy for 10s and below.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          With this simple rule change, you will see who can play and who can't. A soccer player is not the kid that runs quickly after a punt. It is the kid that receives a ball under intense pressure, knows how to protect the ball and plays with his teammates to get the ball to midfield. Or the kid that shows and assists his teammate to get out of pressure. Those are kids with talent and that understand the game. Kids with technical ability and game smarts to play effectively out the back. If we make this ONE rule change, we will be rewarding those that know how to play and providing a disincentive to play kick and chase. Simple enough right? So what's FYSA's stance on this? It would be a mess., right? Because for kids to play out the back they actually need to be coached. And we know the coaching in most FYSA clubs is inadequate, even though we want parents to pay $2000-$3000 yearly for what they in their ignorance think is adequate coaching.
          not just fysa but american soccer as a whole is inadequate

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            The USSF small-sided initiative actually implements a form of your proposed rule. I think it is U10 that will have a "retreat" line painted on the field (at least in early versions of the proposal). Opposing players will be required to retreat behind the line when the keeper picks up the ball. The keeper is then required to distribute the ball to a defensive player. I don't remember whether punting was explicitly prohibited, but it makes sense given the "no-heading" policy for 10s and below.
            Well, I agree with the direction of this, but it does not go far enough. It should be until u12 and drawing a silly line is absurd. You just need to enforce no punts. No lines needed. Just if GK punts opponent is awarded an indirect free kick. Simple.

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              I was not making any jab at high school coaches or high school play in general. I was asking a serious question. It would seem that as a high school coach you would have as much clout as anyone to loudly call out clubs (not to the club itself, but rather to local town parents starting their kids out in the game) and teams that parents should stay away from and recommend teams that parents should steer their young children towards.
              I apologize for incorrectly reading into your question? Knowing the prevailing attitude toward high school soccer, I thought your "bully pulpit" remark was tongue in cheek.

              As a high school coach I have garnered a certain amount of respect from the players I've coached, their families, and my colleagues. However, from that perspective it's reaching a limited audience. The kids value high school soccer. The soccer community at large, not so much.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                The USSF small-sided initiative actually implements a form of your proposed rule. I think it is U10 that will have a "retreat" line painted on the field (at least in early versions of the proposal). Opposing players will be required to retreat behind the line when the keeper picks up the ball. The keeper is then required to distribute the ball to a defensive player. I don't remember whether punting was explicitly prohibited, but it makes sense given the "no-heading" policy for 10s and below.
                Plus, the retreat line defeats the whole point. The idea is to out the GK and left and right backs under intense pressure. Then, we see who can get out of the pressure. That's how you find players. The ability to create space when under intense pressure using first touch, smarts, or physical play or a combination of the three. Without the pressure (which the retreat line eliminates) you lose the benefit of playing from the back.

                While it will mean that lots of goals are given up and parents may whine, 1) it is equally difficult for both teams; 2) you will see most of your most technical and smart players in LB/RB/midfield positions, exactly where they should be ; 3) left back and right backs will not longer be human walls; and 4) MOST IMPORTANTLY, by the time these kids reach u13, they will know how to play out the back using a midfield and opening up the field. This is soccer. Not kick and chase.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  Since it is not at all obvious to me, please explain what you, as a coach, mean by "dealing with the bull****that has spread throughout youth competitive soccer." We may all gain some perspective from that explanation.

                  If by "treats it like a business" you mean that revenues must equal expenses then, unlike public schools which receive tax revenue to cover all of their expenses, every youth soccer club must be run like a business in order to exist. If, on the other hand, by "treats it like a business" you mean coaches and trainers who collect pay for their expertise, are we to assume that, unlike the vast majority of licensed and qualified ones, you are volunteering your time? If so, you are indeed a rare coach and have my thanks and respect.

                  I, too, love the game, and believe that High School soccer has its social and community role. However, I also believe that High School soccer is an impediment to the development of its best players and had no problem with the USSF decision to eliminate High School play for its Development Academy players.
                  "dealing with the bull****" - We just lost a girl to Club X, more or less because of a high pressure sales pitch selling NPL. What they told dad was, if you don't take advantage of this now it won't be available later. What they didn't tell dad was, in her age group there will be an ECNL team and an R3PL team. That makes NPL in this age group, at this club, the "C" team at best. She was on our "A" team. She went to try out for ECNL and I get that but while there was sold a big steaming pile of bull****. So now she's likely on a less talented team with inferior coaches. After having a conversation with dad, he says "Oh wow, I guess I screwed up".

                  Gotta go for now. I'll address the other stuff in your post when I get back.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    "dealing with the bull****" - We just lost a girl to Club X, more or less because of a high pressure sales pitch selling NPL. What they told dad was, if you don't take advantage of this now it won't be available later. What they didn't tell dad was, in her age group there will be an ECNL team and an R3PL team. That makes NPL in this age group, at this club, the "C" team at best. She was on our "A" team. She went to try out for ECNL and I get that but while there was sold a big steaming pile of bull****. So now she's likely on a less talented team with inferior coaches. After having a conversation with dad, he says "Oh wow, I guess I screwed up".

                    Gotta go for now. I'll address the other stuff in your post when I get back.
                    you have 15 day to change mind current club 30 days if you change clubs

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      "dealing with the bull****" - We just lost a girl to Club X, more or less because of a high pressure sales pitch selling NPL. What they told dad was, if you don't take advantage of this now it won't be available later. What they didn't tell dad was, in her age group there will be an ECNL team and an R3PL team. That makes NPL in this age group, at this club, the "C" team at best. She was on our "A" team. She went to try out for ECNL and I get that but while there was sold a big steaming pile of bull****. So now she's likely on a less talented team with inferior coaches. After having a conversation with dad, he says "Oh wow, I guess I screwed up".

                      Gotta go for now. I'll address the other stuff in your post when I get back.
                      Usually parents are smarter, but it's the players who do not know. The player gets sucked in with You can be on the FPL/NPL team and we'll dual roster you on our ECNL team. But TBU and others are putting 26 on each ECNL roster. The player thinks they got onto a better team than the A team they were on. Sad sad sad.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        Lets start with this: a huge number of kids are interested in soccer FOR FUN. A system needs to be in place to inexpensively accommodate FUN play in local leagues. This is appropriate for 85-90% of the kids that demonstrate an interest in soccer. Like any human activity, just cause your kid likes to run around after a round ball does not mean you should make soccer a huge part of your kid's childhood.

                        The balance 10-15% should be playing in elite leagues with kids that are also elite/ talented players. Since everyone and their grandparents and possibly even their dead relatives think their kid is the best player they've ever seen, you need to have true talent evaluators weeding out the 10-15%. This may be hard in rural Illinois but it is entirely possible in places like SoFla, SoCal, Orlando, etc.

                        This 10-15% should learn how to play and learn proper technique BEFORE heading into anything resembling serious, intense competition. That means LEARNING until about u11 or u12 with limited competition.

                        What I have described while it is logical is the OPPOSITE of what actually exists. We have a system that gets the 85-90% that should just be having fun into an expensive and absurd travel club system when in reality they will never be soccer players and its not even on the radar. The 10-15% is largely not identified until DA (u12 or older) and then the process has its politics. Competition is all parents and clubs care about starting at u8. Instead of learning, they compete at 9 and 10. Competition inevitably becomes kick and chase. Why not make a simple run change: MANDATING clubs to play out the back. No punting from the GK or you award an indirect free kick. Simple enough right?
                        Just left an OC coach who insisted defenders long ball out of the back. Went crazy if they actually tied to keep possession. Paid a lot of money for that fool.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          With this simple rule change, you will see who can play and who can't. A soccer player is not the kid that runs quickly after a punt. It is the kid that receives a ball under intense pressure, knows how to protect the ball and plays with his teammates to get the ball to midfield. Or the kid that shows and assists his teammate to get out of pressure. Those are kids with talent and that understand the game. Kids with technical ability and game smarts to play effectively out the back. If we make this ONE rule change, we will be rewarding those that know how to play and providing a disincentive to play kick and chase. Simple enough right? So what's FYSA's stance on this? It would be a mess., right? Because for kids to play out the back they actually need to be coached. And we know the coaching in most FYSA clubs is inadequate, even though we want parents to pay $2000-$3000 yearly for what they in their ignorance think is adequate coaching.
                          Amen! Go look at OC coaches on girls side. Abysmal coaching.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            Plus, the retreat line defeats the whole point. The idea is to out the GK and left and right backs under intense pressure. Then, we see who can get out of the pressure. That's how you find players. The ability to create space when under intense pressure using first touch, smarts, or physical play or a combination of the three. Without the pressure (which the retreat line eliminates) you lose the benefit of playing from the back.

                            While it will mean that lots of goals are given up and parents may whine, 1) it is equally difficult for both teams; 2) you will see most of your most technical and smart players in LB/RB/midfield positions, exactly where they should be ; 3) left back and right backs will not longer be human walls; and 4) MOST IMPORTANTLY, by the time these kids reach u13, they will know how to play out the back using a midfield and opening up the field. This is soccer. Not kick and chase.
                            I am not some sort of crazy game purist. This is just how they play internationally. You take a random tournament in Europe and all the kids play out the back. The bad kids. the good kids. the mediocre kids. the athletic kids. the slow kids. the ugly kids. all of them. they understand that this is a part of the game they are playing. Its not some way to play pretty soccer; it IS soccer. it is a sine qua non .. an essential part of the game. here, you see a team play out the back effectively and it turns heads. in Europe it means nothing. it means you are playing the game.

                            and by the way, at u13, a GK may choose to punt if GK sees an advantage. But the kids will know how to maintain possession of the ball if needed by playing wide. enough on this. There is so much wrong with US soccer that I think sometimes simple solutions like this that carry multiple benefits are the only way to start to make progress.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              I am not some sort of crazy game purist. This is just how they play internationally. You take a random tournament in Europe and all the kids play out the back. The bad kids. the good kids. the mediocre kids. the athletic kids. the slow kids. the ugly kids. all of them. they understand that this is a part of the game they are playing. Its not some way to play pretty soccer; it IS soccer. it is a sine qua non .. an essential part of the game. here, you see a team play out the back effectively and it turns heads. in Europe it means nothing. it means you are playing the game.

                              and by the way, at u13, a GK may choose to punt if GK sees an advantage. But the kids will know how to maintain possession of the ball if needed by playing wide. enough on this. There is so much wrong with US soccer that I think sometimes simple solutions like this that carry multiple benefits are the only way to start to make progress.
                              I am from America and sit and watch the game and am stupid in the game, but why don't the players play out of the middle. You know, the defense connect with the middle and the middle move the ball backwards, sideways , forward, and work that ball. Why always teach kids to go backwards!?!

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                I am from America and sit and watch the game and am stupid in the game, but why don't the players play out of the middle. You know, the defense connect with the middle and the middle move the ball backwards, sideways , forward, and work that ball. Why always teach kids to go backwards!?!
                                Huh? The phrase "playing out the back" only means the team does not punt the ball forward but instead uses the talent and ability of the defense and midfield to cross into the attacking zone.

                                It doesn't mean your left back or right back dribbles the ball all the way up - although if he/she can do it, that's pretty cool. what we are talking about is exactly what you suggest. The left back or right back receives under pressure and gets the ball to midfield. sometimes this is very hard. midfield then decides where to distribute the ball. midfield may play forward or back. sometimes back is preferable to reset. sometimes midfield receives under intense pressure and plays back to a player not under pressure.

                                it requires that your midfielder "show" actively and talk to his teammates actively, otherwise your wide defenders get buried.

                                just watch international soccer and see how most clubs handle pressure. (guess what: its not by always punting the ball forward) ... that is really all you are looking to teach kids.

                                Comment

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