Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

"Codes of Conduct" for coaches/parents

Collapse
X
  •  
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #31
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    No joke. We all knew they were obsessed but drudging up a 3+ year old thread to prove a point is out right demented. There were a few other old threads pulled up around the same time.
    Correct. Good news, I'm following (no, actually following) Nigel's lead. Heading out shortly for the weekend with the family. Maybe I'll check in tonight to dig through old beentheredonethat posts to find some soccer dialogue worth endorsing.

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      You think anything on TS matters? I engage in "talking soccer" and that douche comes along time and again with "Thanks, BTDT" and a page of posts later that amount to denials and pleas not to wreck a thread and the wrecking ball is out in full swing.

      TS is something to kill time when the TV or other browser tabs aren't much more compelling.

      I might as well toy with this moron and entertain myself on the off chance he cracks, throwing himself or his laptop out the nearest window.
      And yet, you claim to have no issue with yourself. Speaks volumes.

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        Correct. Good news, I'm following (no, actually following) Nigel's lead. Heading out shortly for the weekend with the family. Maybe I'll check in tonight to dig through old beentheredonethat posts to find some soccer dialogue worth endorsing.
        You can dig through the archives for hours (and provide mounds of data to counter your own objectives), or you can simply ask anyone knowledgeable here to sum up all of BTDT's posts over the year in a couple of paragraphs.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          Correct. Good news, I'm following (no, actually following) Nigel's lead. Heading out shortly for the weekend with the family. Maybe I'll check in tonight to dig through old beentheredonethat posts to find some soccer dialogue worth endorsing.
          Enjoy your day, BTNT! No doubt your family will appreciate you re-introducing yourself to them. Tremendous opportunity for you to look inward.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Injuries happen. This is a fact that there is no way to get around. If two kids, running straight for the ball, are on a collision course and will both reach and hit the ball at the same time, and one or both will sustain an injury (your crystal ball will confirm this)..........what do you want each player to do?

            Collisions and injuries are going to happen. Do you teach your player to back off so they won't get hurt or do you inspire, encourage, and yes, put pressure on them to perform with desire, intensity, and aggressiveness (sorry for this word...) to win the ball and dare to be great?

            As kids grow up they need to feel some pressure and some urgency to elevate him/herself to a higher level. This is how we learn, how we perform, and how we succeed. The balance here is to also teach that mistakes happen and losses occur. Everything can be taught with a balance of emphasis. For example the counter to losing is to create some kind of pressure to want to get back on the field and play to win which requires the intensity and drive.

            You find me a coach that does not exert some pressure on the players and I will show you the same coach that will never coach successfully beyond U10 soccer.

            Live or die pressure is not necessary, but pressure to perform and realistic views of winning and losing exist in balance with the ultimate goal being to elevate the player to the next level.

            All said, there are certainly ridiculous and violent actions that are not necessary and this is what the ref, coach, and parent should look to control, but to blame the coach or parent for exerting PRESSURE on the player is pathetic.
            Sorry, in many cases I don't think it is pathetic at all. In many cases the blame is appropriate .
            Why ? Several reasons. The first and most important point is that the brain of a child is still developing. The influence of the ( hopefully ) developed adult brain, along with the personality of the adult influence is very important.

            What exactly are " realistic views of winning and losing " ?. Are these the views of the adults that have organized and structured a confusing , tension rich environment for the children, or the child's realistic views of what developing children actually need to strive and succeed.Each child is unique.

            What exactly is " successfully coaching beyond the U-10 level "? Winning, trophies ? Gotsoccer points ? Tell me. Have you done it ? Have you started with 8 year olds, and coached them through, having some even play in College when they got to that age? What did you learn? What was the experience like ?

            The second reason is that on the road of children's sports, we have passed the exit for playing and have evolved into the act of performing. Playing, especially free play , allows the children to set their own limits and parameters , helps develop social skills like coping and peer management . Performing seeks the nod of approval of controlling adults, who have organized and structured the environment mostly for the benefit of others besides the children.

            What we have today many times that creates problems is the lack of discipline from players as a direct influence from their environment , an environment overwhelmingly controlled by adults. The stress to perform, rather than play. The stress to gain an advantage ( the scholarship ) , the stress to win , to keep the team and Club , and school in good order.

            Some of the stress in youth sports is desirable and natural. However the coping mechanism of the child develops best when it emerges from the child, not molded by adults. The examples of negative behavior by parents and coaches towards Officials tells the developing child that it is okay. The yelling at players to perform to the satisfaction of adults stunts the development of children , and their ability to make decisions. Poor decisions are punished, playing time may be at risk, and the stigma on the child from making errors may not be accepted by others related to the team.

            This is the Sports world for children that the modern parent and adult has created.

            If you want proof, put a team on the field for a " friendly match " without the coaches and parents being present. Have one experienced Referee direct the match , in pre game comments tell the players that the score doesn't count for anything, and slide tackles will not be allowed.

            If you would be lucky enough to watch, you might just see the most beautiful soccer match that your child ever played.

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              You think anything on TS matters? I engage in "talking soccer" and that douche comes along time and again with "Thanks, BTDT" and a page of posts later that amount to denials and pleas not to wreck a thread and the wrecking ball is out in full swing.

              TS is something to kill time when the TV or other browser tabs aren't much more compelling.

              I might as well toy with this moron and entertain myself on the off chance he cracks, throwing himself or his laptop out the nearest window.
              well my bad then..i actually thought you might be another one of those perspective/BTDT theorists/conspiracy theorists/crackheads...in that case, well done and good luck

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                Sorry, in many cases I don't think it is pathetic at all. In many cases the blame is appropriate .
                Why ? Several reasons. The first and most important point is that the brain of a child is still developing. The influence of the ( hopefully ) developed adult brain, along with the personality of the adult influence is very important.

                What exactly are " realistic views of winning and losing " ?. Are these the views of the adults that have organized and structured a confusing , tension rich environment for the children, or the child's realistic views of what developing children actually need to strive and succeed.Each child is unique.

                What exactly is " successfully coaching beyond the U-10 level "? Winning, trophies ? Gotsoccer points ? Tell me. Have you done it ? Have you started with 8 year olds, and coached them through, having some even play in College when they got to that age? What did you learn? What was the experience like ?

                The second reason is that on the road of children's sports, we have passed the exit for playing and have evolved into the act of performing. Playing, especially free play , allows the children to set their own limits and parameters , helps develop social skills like coping and peer management . Performing seeks the nod of approval of controlling adults, who have organized and structured the environment mostly for the benefit of others besides the children.

                What we have today many times that creates problems is the lack of discipline from players as a direct influence from their environment , an environment overwhelmingly controlled by adults. The stress to perform, rather than play. The stress to gain an advantage ( the scholarship ) , the stress to win , to keep the team and Club , and school in good order.

                Some of the stress in youth sports is desirable and natural. However the coping mechanism of the child develops best when it emerges from the child, not molded by adults. The examples of negative behavior by parents and coaches towards Officials tells the developing child that it is okay. The yelling at players to perform to the satisfaction of adults stunts the development of children , and their ability to make decisions. Poor decisions are punished, playing time may be at risk, and the stigma on the child from making errors may not be accepted by others related to the team.

                This is the Sports world for children that the modern parent and adult has created.

                If you want proof, put a team on the field for a " friendly match " without the coaches and parents being present. Have one experienced Referee direct the match , in pre game comments tell the players that the score doesn't count for anything, and slide tackles will not be allowed.

                If you would be lucky enough to watch, you might just see the most beautiful soccer match that your child ever played.
                the best and most fun games I have seen involving my son have been:
                - 4v4 games when e was a U6 and they just ran around in a mob following the ball, kicking it into a pug net over and over
                - "friendly" scrimmages that we occasionally play vs other town teams as we gear up for our official season
                - intra squad scrimmages on his club team at practices

                Coaches pretty much just watch, not too many parents around, and usually no referee and the kids manage the game themselves

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  well my bad then..i actually thought you might be another one of those perspective/BTDT theorists/conspiracy theorists/crackheads...in that case, well done and good luck
                  Ha, no problem. Most of the time, like now, it's best to sit back and enjoy, almost like roasting marshmallows at a camp fire...But probably more like driving by a fender bender slowly.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    The second reason is that on the road of children's sports, we have passed the exit for playing and have evolved into the act of performing. Playing, especially free play , allows the children to set their own limits and parameters , helps develop social skills like coping and peer management . Performing seeks the nod of approval of controlling adults, who have organized and structured the environment mostly for the benefit of others besides the children.

                    What we have today many times that creates problems is the lack of discipline from players as a direct influence from their environment , an environment overwhelmingly controlled by adults. The stress to perform, rather than play. The stress to gain an advantage ( the scholarship ) , the stress to win , to keep the team and Club , and school in good order.

                    Some of the stress in youth sports is desirable and natural. However the coping mechanism of the child develops best when it emerges from the child, not molded by adults. The examples of negative behavior by parents and coaches towards Officials tells the developing child that it is okay. The yelling at players to perform to the satisfaction of adults stunts the development of children , and their ability to make decisions. Poor decisions are punished, playing time may be at risk, and the stigma on the child from making errors may not be accepted by others related to the team.
                    Don't know who wrote this post, don't care. Love it. I do and have coached for a long time and different levels, I have kids of my own out of the game and still in it. I've been around dozens of teams, hundreds of kids over a period of years and years, and I'm seeing more and more kids influenced by adult thinking and values, what I call a "road to nowhere" -- meaning 99% of these kids are worrying about things that won't be relevant to their lives at 18, 28 or 48, and their ignoring the most relevant aspects and lessons from playing sports...and by extensions their parents are either ignoring or forgetting what those things are. When I see a truly high character player emerge, average or elite ability aside, I'm reminded what it's all about. Unfortunately I'm seeing more and more of the inverse happening.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Woo is me, I'm a ref and everyone picks on me. I can't stand parents and coaches and long for the 60's when kids played out in their neighborhoods with other kids while the parents ignored them. Those were the days. Today sux.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        Ha, no problem. Most of the time, like now, it's best to sit back and enjoy, almost like roasting marshmallows at a camp fire...But probably more like driving by a fender bender slowly.
                        Looks like the fire's gone out and the accident has been cleared.

                        For now...

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          Sorry, in many cases I don't think it is pathetic at all. In many cases the blame is appropriate .
                          Why ? Several reasons. The first and most important point is that the brain of a child is still developing. The influence of the ( hopefully ) developed adult brain, along with the personality of the adult influence is very important.

                          What exactly are " realistic views of winning and losing " ?. Are these the views of the adults that have organized and structured a confusing , tension rich environment for the children, or the child's realistic views of what developing children actually need to strive and succeed.Each child is unique.

                          What exactly is " successfully coaching beyond the U-10 level "? Winning, trophies ? Gotsoccer points ? Tell me. Have you done it ? Have you started with 8 year olds, and coached them through, having some even play in College when they got to that age? What did you learn? What was the experience like ?

                          The second reason is that on the road of children's sports, we have passed the exit for playing and have evolved into the act of performing. Playing, especially free play , allows the children to set their own limits and parameters , helps develop social skills like coping and peer management . Performing seeks the nod of approval of controlling adults, who have organized and structured the environment mostly for the benefit of others besides the children.

                          What we have today many times that creates problems is the lack of discipline from players as a direct influence from their environment , an environment overwhelmingly controlled by adults. The stress to perform, rather than play. The stress to gain an advantage ( the scholarship ) , the stress to win , to keep the team and Club , and school in good order.

                          Some of the stress in youth sports is desirable and natural. However the coping mechanism of the child develops best when it emerges from the child, not molded by adults. The examples of negative behavior by parents and coaches towards Officials tells the developing child that it is okay. The yelling at players to perform to the satisfaction of adults stunts the development of children , and their ability to make decisions. Poor decisions are punished, playing time may be at risk, and the stigma on the child from making errors may not be accepted by others related to the team.

                          This is the Sports world for children that the modern parent and adult has created.

                          If you want proof, put a team on the field for a " friendly match " without the coaches and parents being present. Have one experienced Referee direct the match , in pre game comments tell the players that the score doesn't count for anything, and slide tackles will not be allowed.

                          If you would be lucky enough to watch, you might just see the most beautiful soccer match that your child ever played.
                          If, as a parent, you are unwilling to accept the inherent risks that come with reckless and careless play, then you should withdraw your child from the sport. Officials bear some responsibility to create a safe environment for play. That being said their role is by nature reactive and not preemptive. Does carding bring a player back into "control"? Sometimes but there is no guarantee. The ultimate responsibility lies with the coach and at older ages team captains or leaders who needs to recognize when a player needs to cool his head off. Unfortunately in too many cases the coaches are either oblivious or in fact engaged and complicit in the players lack of control. In far too many cases I have seen players egged on or riled up by parental behavior on the sidelines.

                          This being said as a coach and as an official the vast majority of ACL injuries are non contact and in fact I am hard pressed to remember one that was contact based. I can count on two hands the injuries that I have witnessed in both capacities that were preventable during my long involvement with the game. Rather than pointing fingers at officials as if they were the sole culprits perhaps a little introspection is advisable.

                          I am sure that I will be misqouted and my position distorted but I think it is necessary to set the record straight. If you want scapegoats for injuries start by looking in the mirror.

                          - Cujo

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            If, as a parent, you are unwilling to accept the inherent risks that come with reckless and careless play, then you should withdraw your child from the sport. Officials bear some responsibility to create a safe environment for play. That being said their role is by nature reactive and not preemptive. Does carding bring a player back into "control"? Sometimes but there is no guarantee. The ultimate responsibility lies with the coach and at older ages team captains or leaders who needs to recognize when a player needs to cool his head off. Unfortunately in too many cases the coaches are either oblivious or in fact engaged and complicit in the players lack of control. In far too many cases I have seen players egged on or riled up by parental behavior on the sidelines.

                            This being said as a coach and as an official the vast majority of ACL injuries are non contact and in fact I am hard pressed to remember one that was contact based. I can count on two hands the injuries that I have witnessed in both capacities that were preventable during my long involvement with the game. Rather than pointing fingers at officials as if they were the sole culprits perhaps a little introspection is advisable.

                            I am sure that I will be misqouted and my position distorted but I think it is necessary to set the record straight. If you want scapegoats for injuries start by looking in the mirror.

                            - Cujo
                            (OP)

                            I think this is a very reasonable and fair view (and in the posts that some construe as unconditionally defending officials, this is hardly that). Style of play is primary and the practical impact of the official is at most secondary. I won't presume to put the burden on parents to influence or police players on the field (when's that going to happen? On the ride home?).

                            One reason I felt compelled to post was at a recent match (teenage girls, not yet high school age), where a player was given a yellow card after 2 verbal warnings on her 5th foul (yes, I counted, it was predictable having played the same team once before). I thought the 2nd was worthy of a yellow, but it was very early in the match and the verbal warning was stern, after a comment from the ref I couldn't hear on the 3rd foul, I thought the 4th, as slight as it was, could have been shown yellow for persistent infringement. To be fair though, it was obvious the ref was aware of this player, and made a serious attempt to steer her away from being booked. Of all the situations I would complain about a player not being booked or being booked late, this isn't one of them.

                            What really stood out and serves the point here, is that the player, parents and coach had nothing but visible and vocal contempt for the officiating, from the first whistle through the card being shown. From all of my experience, I think this is pretty typical. Can you get into debating when the card should be shown? Sure. But I think when you're objective about it, that's a separate discussion altogether that distracts from the larger issue, which is what gets you to the point when you're having that discussion.

                            This is primarily about what a coach values or endorses and what they discourage or condemn.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              (OP)

                              I think this is a very reasonable and fair view (and in the posts that some construe as unconditionally defending officials, this is hardly that). Style of play is primary and the practical impact of the official is at most secondary. I won't presume to put the burden on parents to influence or police players on the field (when's that going to happen? On the ride home?).

                              One reason I felt compelled to post was at a recent match (teenage girls, not yet high school age), where a player was given a yellow card after 2 verbal warnings on her 5th foul (yes, I counted, it was predictable having played the same team once before). I thought the 2nd was worthy of a yellow, but it was very early in the match and the verbal warning was stern, after a comment from the ref I couldn't hear on the 3rd foul, I thought the 4th, as slight as it was, could have been shown yellow for persistent infringement. To be fair though, it was obvious the ref was aware of this player, and made a serious attempt to steer her away from being booked. Of all the situations I would complain about a player not being booked or being booked late, this isn't one of them.

                              What really stood out and serves the point here, is that the player, parents and coach had nothing but visible and vocal contempt for the officiating, from the first whistle through the card being shown. From all of my experience, I think this is pretty typical. Can you get into debating when the card should be shown? Sure. But I think when you're objective about it, that's a separate discussion altogether that distracts from the larger issue, which is what gets you to the point when you're having that discussion.

                              This is primarily about what a coach values or endorses and what they discourage or condemn.
                              I think you are on the right track - parents and coaches for the most part do not hear or understand the discourse that goes on between officials and players. I really try hard not to card a player right away for several reasons unless it is a foul that really crosses the line. Particularly in the girls game things tend to escalate between players differently than they do between boys. Things build so you remain aware of what is going on and talk to the players about dialing it down a notch. If I show cards too early and for marginal offences I have set a standard that cannot be maintained. This is why I stress over and over again that the LOTG are not finite and objective. They are highly subjective and circumstancial. Managing temperature and flow is a delicate balance and something that parents and coaches have little understanding of during a game. Unfortunately too many parents think that they have some inherent right on the sidelines or that they are somehow a "part" of the game. This is why I constantly reiterate that I simply do not care what parents think. I am 100% focused on the players and my primary goal in managing a game is to provide a fair and safe environment for the players.

                              Your point about contempt is spot on. I remain amazed at how quickly parents and coaches jump ugly even before advantage is played out or before I decide if I am going to card or not. I card only after considering a number of factors. I don't rush to pull it out because you cannot unring the bell. The sideline culture has an ongoing chorus of parents (20% give or take....) that are hell bent on putting blame on the refs shoulders. Not having rabbit ears does not mean that you do not hear the nonsense but that you do not react to it unless it has an impact on what happens on the field.

                              I have been accused by coaches from time to time of "losing control" of a game even though I may have called numerous fouls and issued a half dozen cards in attempt to gain control. My response is simple "what did you do to control your players...??". More often than not there is no response because they lost control of their team. But this just reflects Modern America - too many people are unwilling to accept responsibility for the effects of their actions.

                              - Cujo

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Love when officials pontificate about being gods. Call the game. If it's a foul it's a foul. Quit trying to manage the personalities or worrying about things like "booking too early". That shouldn't be your concern. Whether or not a foul occurred should be. If one did then call it. If you guys did that most of the crap that causes games to get out of hand will get nipped in the bud early.

                                Comment

                                Previously entered content was automatically saved. Restore or Discard.
                                Auto-Saved
                                x
                                Insert: Thumbnail Small Medium Large Fullsize Remove  
                                x
                                Working...
                                X