The Downlow About Cub Soccer

[Unregistered]

You are probably a troll boy, but if true, I was there once.
Premier soccer isn't about "soccer" and little Mia going for soccer trophy glory.
It is about money, time, logistics, and politics, as in how much are you willing to spend?
Put a value on everything. Then, if your Mia has the talent and drive.
Messed up, right? It is what it is.

The question should be, are you ready for premier soccer?
The persons you should be talking to are the team managers
and parents. Go to a practice and see the competition. There are lots of info
and books talking about premier sports and most of it is true.
If not, stick with orange slices, juice boxes and girls doing cartwheels during the games.

Thought this was a good post worthy of it's own thread. Are they right? Does this accurately describe club soccer? Is the advice solid?

[Unregistered]

Thought this was a good post worthy of it's own thread. Are they right? Does this accurately describe club soccer? Is the advice solid?

Too simple. It's all about finding what works for your kid and family. Have heard of plenty people running to club to get away from the moms and dads who ruin the orange slice and cartwheel filled soccer. It's a journey and certainly an imperfect one as each option town a, town b small club, large club bcdefg, large club elite are each inherently flawed in its own way and a bad experience waiting to happen for wrong kid/family. As early as possible try to figure out what works for you and understand everyone is different what is an amazing experience for one will be not right for you and vice versa.

[Unregistered]

Every family and situation is different. It's not unlike school or work opportunities. Some people push harder, some people are naturally more "studious" (in the school comparison). Some people may have other interests or desires... (Outside of school). If you use that as your guide, from the standpoint of this is about life and choices, etc... You can't go wrong. Don't be swayed by people who say, "Club sports are a waste of time and money". But also, don't be swayed by someone who would say, "Club is the only way to go". It's about YOU and YOUR kids. Period. The end.

[Unregistered]

It's never that simple. I knew a family that switched from a pretty good travel team, because the games conflicted with lacrosse games, and club soccer games did not. Lacrosse was the first sport, but she was still a very strong soccer player. Everyone has their reasons. You can't make blanket statements about why people leave travel to play premier.

[Unregistered]

Thought this was a good post worthy of it's own thread. Are they right? Does this accurately describe club soccer? Is the advice solid?

What do you mean by a good post? And why dI'd you find it worthy of yet another "should you really be doing club soccer?" thread that now describe almost every thread on the site these days? What's your read on what the post is saying?

For me, the post was provocatively vague and said almost nothing. Allusions to club being a scam and just about money and then at the same time a sweeping swipe at town soccer with the tired old orange slices and cartwheels bit. The poster slammed everything basically.

These threads act like every parent is making a lifetime decision with dire importance and consequences. A little too dramatic, no? At most, it's a one year risk. You sign up one year at a time. Each family is more than capable of deciding what to do moving forward in terms of what they want, value and can afford. If they aren't capable or you THINK they aren't capable this may be hard to believe but that's not YOUR problem.

[Unregistered]

Love Chicago

Glad that they branched out into soccer

[beentheredonethat]

For what it is worth here is my personal take. It's just one person's view. In many ways youth sports at the club level have gone the way of organized charities. Sure there are people doing good work for the right reasons but when you look around and see all of the coaches walking around fancy practice facilities in expensive matching coaching garb you have to know that the days when people coached strictly for the kids and their love of the game are gone and the club's charitable tax status is more tax dodge than a definition of their purpose. None of it is really a bad thing as long everyone involved recognizes that we have now commoditized athletic training and the optimism of "just try your hardest" now comes with a steep price tag. Unfortunately the days when a family could just sign a young child up for a low cost recreational experience to explore whether they even like a sport has largely been replaced fairly expensive semi-professional "training academies" that function more like the loading area of a log flume ride than a learning experience. These days kids seem to get hit with fairly high sport expectations at younger and younger ages which often leads to families unknowingly committing to spending fairly large sums of money for something their kids aren't really old enough to fully understand where it might fit in their lives nor are the parents really aware of just how much of a commitment they are signing on for or of the direction it is really taking them in.

Personally I think the first step in the decision process with whether to join a soccer club is to actually step back and ask yourself what you really want for your child. No doubt about it, being a star athlete does have sort of a romantic allure to it, but the "job" of being an athlete can be anything but romantic for the overwhelming majority of those who actually do find success doing it. If you can't envision your child in a lifestyle where they are expected to myopically channel every ounce of both their physical energies and mental focus into their athletic performance then you probably want to stop right at the front door of club sports and simply find another activity for them. If either of you are not willing to fully sell out for it, sports are really not going to be an activity either of you will ultimately enjoy or find much success doing in the long run.

Once you make the decision to participate though you really should make every effort to understand what you are buying. Often times families get involved with a club sport because they believe that they are going to find the sort of high intensity and commitment level they envision will draw out whatever athletic abilities their child may have. This is where I think most people start to get disillusioned with club sports. One of things that I see a fair number of families do is at first they are all gungho to get on the log flume ride but then once on it they want to change how fast it runs or where it goes based upon their own personal wants and desires. Now it's not wrong for any individual to want what they want but everyone needs to be on the same sheet of music and fully understand that while everyone is setting their personal limits the clubs are generally picking the path of least resistance between all of them to keep as many families happy as possible. This is where the business side of all of this really impacts. You have to keep paying customers happy if you want to thrive in business.

One of the ramifications of the clubs trying to homogenize the environment to keep everyone happy is what all of them generally sell as "elite" is really way off that mark. As someone who has been in this grind for years and been on what is supposedly the elite path I can honestly report that our experience in club soccer has been that there really isn't a defined "elite" path at all and no one, at least around here, really even comes close to having a program in place to effectively train truly high level soccer players like they all espouse that they do. Sure there are plenty of individuals working hard and doing it for the right reasons (super people that you are blessed when you run across) but you need to know that the environment as a whole doesn't promote that. All of the league squabbling is just marketing bull crap. What you find if you do have a child like mine that might be considered elite is that the levelling in club soccer is completely screwed up so that you have high level players playing in the same games with players that have absolutely no soccer ambitions at all. It's not good for any of them.

The reality in club sports is that what all of the clubs are selling is basically a fantasy because what you end up finding is that all of the programing that supposedly is targeted for "elite" players is actually much more rudimentary than an elite player needs and effectively targeted towards players much further down the pyramid. Now that's not really all that awful but what most don't realize is that it disguises the true costs and benefits of club soccer because in effect what while everyone believes they are paying for a luxury performance sports car in reality what you are actually getting is just a well appointed sedan that looks better in the showroom than drives on the highway. The bottom line is if you think that by joining a "premier" team in some soccer club that you are catapulting your child to the top of the soccer pyramid that is not likely to happen unless you really understand what you have for a player and you really know how to piece together all of the necessary training that they will need.

This is precisely why I personally bristle when I read advice like in post #1 to talk to the team manager or go to practice because unless you have some experience with athletics you are just setting yourself up to be sold the fantasy. My advice is to educate yourself before you even think about jumping on the log flume and never fully put your trust exclusively in one person or one entity. Get as many opinions as you possibly can and then head in the direction of the ones that resonate the closest to your family values. Most of all, govern your level of participation based upon what you set as your goals for your child recognizing that many of the other families that you come across will likely want something different so you will all have to compromise. I wish good luck to everyone on their journey regardless of the paths they choose.

[Unregistered]

An awful lot of words, BTNT, that you've written signed-in and anonymously over and over and over. In a nutshell you stated, and with presumptuous authority, that the only ones who should ever get on your "log-flume" are those kids who are destined to be Olympic-level athletes. We know those few athletes are dedicated like none other and willing to run through a never-ending series of brick walls as you so admire, but the fact is that there is still a big world to participate in beyond the world for Olympic Gold medalists. In short, we don't have to do it the way you think we should do it. You and your kid will just have to suffer through feeling so "watered down." There are always more special, rarefied places for kids like your daughter to go so you can escape the riff-raff.

We know what you think. Now will you cop to Suzie?

[Unregistered]

If you can't envision your child in a lifestyle where they are expected to myopically channel every ounce of both their physical energies and mental focus into their athletic performance then you probably want to stop right at the front door of club sports and simply find another activity for them. If either of you are not willing to fully sell out for it, sports are really not going to be an activity either of you will ultimately enjoy or find much success doing in the long run.

Wow. Just wow. And what about the thousands who do enjoy and find success without meeting your stringent, self-serving guidelines. Obviously really ticks you off to see people happy who you believe shouldn't be happy.

[Unregistered]

Wow. Just wow. And what about the thousands who do enjoy and find success without meeting your stringent, self-serving guidelines. Obviously really ticks you off to see people happy who you believe shouldn't be happy.

He's also the same guy who blasted other local clubs for not having their own training facilities. Now, of course, he sings a different tune. No matter what you pay, how your kid plays, or happy you are with their soccer experience, his ONLY goal seems to be to convince you that you should be UNHAPPY, that your kid SUCKS, and that you are PAYING WAY TOO MUCH.

As much as he sometimes offers interesting ideas that I like to read and consider, there are too many times when he comes off as an insufferable d-bag.

[Unregistered]

For what it is worth here is my personal take. It's just one person's view. In many ways youth sports at the club level have gone the way of organized charities. Sure there are people doing good work for the right reasons but when you look around and see all of the coaches walking around fancy practice facilities in expensive matching coaching garb you have to know that the days when people coached strictly for the kids and their love of the game are gone and the club's charitable tax status is more tax dodge than a definition of their purpose. None of it is really a bad thing as long everyone involved recognizes that we have now commoditized athletic training and the optimism of "just try your hardest" now comes with a steep price tag. Unfortunately the days when a family could just sign a young child up for a low cost recreational experience to explore whether they even like a sport has largely been replaced fairly expensive semi-professional "training academies" that function more like the loading area of a log flume ride than a learning experience. These days kids seem to get hit with fairly high sport expectations at younger and younger ages which often leads to families unknowingly committing to spending fairly large sums of money for something their kids aren't really old enough to fully understand where it might fit in their lives nor are the parents really aware of just how much of a commitment they are signing on for or of the direction it is really taking them in.

Personally I think the first step in the decision process with whether to join a soccer club is to actually step back and ask yourself what you really want for your child. No doubt about it, being a star athlete does have sort of a romantic allure to it, but the "job" of being an athlete can be anything but romantic for the overwhelming majority of those who actually do find success doing it. If you can't envision your child in a lifestyle where they are expected to myopically channel every ounce of both their physical energies and mental focus into their athletic performance then you probably want to stop right at the front door of club sports and simply find another activity for them. If either of you are not willing to fully sell out for it, sports are really not going to be an activity either of you will ultimately enjoy or find much success doing in the long run.

Once you make the decision to participate though you really should make every effort to understand what you are buying. Often times families get involved with a club sport because they believe that they are going to find the sort of high intensity and commitment level they envision will draw out whatever athletic abilities their child may have. This is where I think most people start to get disillusioned with club sports. One of things that I see a fair number of families do is at first they are all gungho to get on the log flume ride but then once on it they want to change how fast it runs or where it goes based upon their own personal wants and desires. Now it's not wrong for any individual to want what they want but everyone needs to be on the same sheet of music and fully understand that while everyone is setting their personal limits the clubs are generally picking the path of least resistance between all of them to keep as many families happy as possible. This is where the business side of all of this really impacts. You have to keep paying customers happy if you want to thrive in business.

One of the ramifications of the clubs trying to homogenize the environment to keep everyone happy is what all of them generally sell as "elite" is really way off that mark. As someone who has been in this grind for years and been on what is supposedly the elite path I can honestly report that our experience in club soccer has been that there really isn't a defined "elite" path at all and no one, at least around here, really even comes close to having a program in place to effectively train truly high level soccer players like they all espouse that they do. Sure there are plenty of individuals working hard and doing it for the right reasons (super people that you are blessed when you run across) but you need to know that the environment as a whole doesn't promote that. All of the league squabbling is just marketing bull crap. What you find if you do have a child like mine that might be considered elite is that the levelling in club soccer is completely screwed up so that you have high level players playing in the same games with players that have absolutely no soccer ambitions at all. It's not good for any of them.

The reality in club sports is that what all of the clubs are selling is basically a fantasy because what you end up finding is that all of the programing that supposedly is targeted for "elite" players is actually much more rudimentary than an elite player needs and effectively targeted towards players much further down the pyramid. Now that's not really all that awful but what most don't realize is that it disguises the true costs and benefits of club soccer because in effect what while everyone believes they are paying for a luxury performance sports car in reality what you are actually getting is just a well appointed sedan that looks better in the showroom than drives on the highway. The bottom line is if you think that by joining a "premier" team in some soccer club that you are catapulting your child to the top of the soccer pyramid that is not likely to happen unless you really understand what you have for a player and you really know how to piece together all of the necessary training that they will need.

This is precisely why I personally bristle when I read advice like in post #1 to talk to the team manager or go to practice because unless you have some experience with athletics you are just setting yourself up to be sold the fantasy. My advice is to educate yourself before you even think about jumping on the log flume and never fully put your trust exclusively in one person or one entity. Get as many opinions as you possibly can and then head in the direction of the ones that resonate the closest to your family values. Most of all, govern your level of participation based upon what you set as your goals for your child recognizing that many of the other families that you come across will likely want something different so you will all have to compromise. I wish good luck to everyone on their journey regardless of the paths they choose.

Decent post, but interesting which club leads the marketing bull crap.

[Unregistered]

He's also the same guy who blasted other local clubs for not having their own training facilities. Now, of course, he sings a different tune. No matter what you pay, how your kid plays, or happy you are with their soccer experience, his ONLY goal seems to be to convince you that you should be UNHAPPY, that your kid SUCKS, and that you are PAYING WAY TOO MUCH.

As much as he sometimes offers interesting ideas that I like to read and consider, there are too many times when he comes off as an insufferable d-bag.

Who else regularly posts 6-7 paragraph tombs acting like he is the only parent on the planet who played sports at a high level himself and who has a kid who plays at a high level? Calling him a D-bag is too kind.

Beyond that, he seems to be under the delusion that he is posting something new and shiny. Perseveration, repetition, extremely loose logical connections, wild hypotheses and even wilder generalizations are some of the hallmark signs of brain damage. Mix that with world-class narcissism and off the charts self-importance and you've got quite a cocktail.

[Unregistered]

For what it is worth here is my personal take. It's just one person's view. In many ways youth sports at the club level have gone the way of organized charities. Sure there are people doing good work for the right reasons but when you look around and see all of the coaches walking around fancy practice facilities in expensive matching coaching garb you have to know that the days when people coached strictly for the kids and their love of the game are gone and the club's charitable tax status is more tax dodge than a definition of their purpose. None of it is really a bad thing as long everyone involved recognizes that we have now commoditized athletic training and the optimism of "just try your hardest" now comes with a steep price tag. Unfortunately the days when a family could just sign a young child up for a low cost recreational experience to explore whether they even like a sport has largely been replaced fairly expensive semi-professional "training academies" that function more like the loading area of a log flume ride than a learning experience. These days kids seem to get hit with fairly high sport expectations at younger and younger ages which often leads to families unknowingly committing to spending fairly large sums of money for something their kids aren't really old enough to fully understand where it might fit in their lives nor are the parents really aware of just how much of a commitment they are signing on for or of the direction it is really taking them in.

You can still play rec sports in every town in the state, and that has not and will not be replaced. And I doubt families are unknowlingly committing to club soccer. We're all adults here and know what we are spending our time and money on.

[beentheredonethat]

Wow. Just wow. And what about the thousands who do enjoy and find success without meeting your stringent, self-serving guidelines. Obviously really ticks you off to see people happy who you believe shouldn't be happy.

Re-reading what I wrote, the passage you highlight really didn't accurately portray the message that I was intending to portray. Sorry. I wasn't trying to say that kids shouldn't get involved recreationally with sports but rather that if they were contemplating getting into a higher level of competitiveness (which I assume we all can agree that is what club soccer is supposed to be) that unless a parent really saw that their child really enjoyed throwing themselves into soccer that there are other levels of organized soccer or other activities altogether that may more be appropriate because in the long run club soccer has a way of sucking families in unless they are fully aware of what they are getting into.

He's also the same guy who blasted other local clubs for not having their own training facilities. Now, of course, he sings a different tune. No matter what you pay, how your kid plays, or happy you are with their soccer experience, his ONLY goal seems to be to convince you that you should be UNHAPPY, that your kid SUCKS, and that you are PAYING WAY TOO MUCH.

As much as he sometimes offers interesting ideas that I like to read and consider, there are too many times when he comes off as an insufferable d-bag.

It's clear that you don't like me much and honestly I could give a crap about a person like you because as I see things all that you are constantly doing is championing one big game of "keeping up with the Jones" and going to great lengths to pollute any message that is critical of the pay for play status quo. I think people like you are destroying youth sports because you seem to want to substitute a willingness to pay extreme amounts of money for hard work and talent and make maintaining this crazy pay to play environment vitally important. Personally I think that how folks like you approach youth sports is perverted and believe in the long run you do your kids a disservice by sheltering them from the harsh realities of sports. I do recognize though that it is your right to do that.

Honestly, I'm not trying to tell anyone that their kid sucks at all, but what I will say is that there are definitely athletic freaks like mine out there and the harsh reality of competitive sports is a lot of your kids never even have anywhere near a fighting shot at competing against them because at the end of the day the athletic freaks are what are cherished in competitive sports. So while people like you are throwing money at trainers and "elite" teams thinking that it is getting your child some place special, you need to know that all that it is going to take is for one of those freaks to decide that they want your kid's spot on the team and with the way this environment works your kid will get bumped off it in a nano second. Now I actually don't think that is right but I do know that is what happens. I'm simply trying add a little objectivity to the environment by tipping you off about the inevitable because the further you go up that talent pyramid the more likely you are going to run into one of the athletic freaks. You are just shooting the messenger carrying the cut notice, that's all that you are doing.

Decent post, but interesting which club leads the marketing bull crap.

This is a fair criticism. No doubt NEFC has grown in leaps and bounds and they really are quite good at getting their marketing messages out. I use the plural when writing about this because I do not want to single out any one club. I actually see the problems more as a global thing than a club specific thing but if you really want my version of the NEFC commercial I'd be happy to tell you that we couldn't have accomplished what we have accomplished with this daughter without the hard work and personal sacrifices of a lot of individuals in the club. They were truly awesome with us but I don't anyone to think that just by putting on an NEFC uniform that they are going to get the same level of commitment we got never mind the same results. That type of thinking is actually what I'm really trying distance us from. My message has always been that the individual player is what makes the club not the reverse.

You can still play rec sports in every town in the state, and that has not and will not be replaced. And I doubt families are unknowlingly committing to club soccer. We're all adults here and know what we are spending our time and money on.

I actually beg to differ with you. I actually have Newbies approach me all of the time asking for advice so I know darn well that a lot of people don't understand what club soccer is all about. How can they, many weren't athletes themselves or even if they were they are experiencing something that is completely different from what they experienced growing up so it takes some time to see enough to sort it all out. I know in my case it wasn't until my oldest was a U17 and I had done this for 6-7 years that I finally figured out what I really needed to know about club soccer and I was a fairly involved basketball coach myself and was once a fairly high level D1 athlete that had seen a thing or two over the years. It is not nearly as easy as some of you are apt to make it out to be because when you get right down to it if you are really trying to parlay youth soccer into a college soccer scholarship all of this comes down to being brutally objective about what your kid brings to the table athletically and then being able to pick a path and personally direct them through what has now become a literal maze of leagues and id programs that half the parents don't even know exist. There is no one size fits all approach to club soccer and my experience has been that those who see it all that simply usually have tunnel vision defined strictly by their own personal wants, needs and desires.

Several of my staunchest critics ultimately fall into that category. They seem to have very low expectations of club soccer and see it really as more of recreational outlet than I truly think many of the families who get involved with club soccer and stay with it through to the end believe it to be. I will admit that I have run across a few parents like them over the past 15 years who did not think anything about the costs (usually because they were extremely wealthy and these costs were just a drop in the bucket for them) and truly were in this just to put a smile on their kid's face but they were just a very small minority. The bulk of what I have run across over the past 7-8 years since costs have skyrocketed are extremely focused on using club soccer as a pathway to college and are very much interested in the ins and outs of the environment. Let's face it, if this weren't true, you wouldn't have anything like the ECNL which basically sells itself as that pathway.

[Unregistered]

Re-reading what I wrote, the passage you highlight really didn't accurately portray the message that I was intending to portray. Sorry. I wasn't trying to say that kids shouldn't get involved recreationally with sports but rather that if they were contemplating getting into a higher level of competitiveness (which I assume we all can agree that is what club soccer is supposed to be) that unless a parent really saw that their child really enjoyed throwing themselves into soccer that there are other levels of organized soccer or other activities altogether that may more be appropriate because in the long run club soccer has a way of sucking families in unless they are fully aware of what they are getting into.



It's clear that you don't like me much and honestly I could give a crap about a person like you because as I see things all that you are constantly doing is championing one big game of "keeping up with the Jones" and going to great lengths to pollute any message that is critical of the pay for play status quo. I think people like you are destroying youth sports because you seem to want to substitute a willingness to pay extreme amounts of money for hard work and talent and make maintaining this crazy pay to play environment vitally important. Personally I think that how folks like you approach youth sports is perverted and believe in the long run you do your kids a disservice by sheltering them from the harsh realities of sports. I do recognize though that it is your right to do that.

Honestly, I'm not trying to tell anyone that their kid sucks at all, but what I will say is that there are definitely athletic freaks like mine out there and the harsh reality of competitive sports is a lot of your kids never even have anywhere near a fighting shot at competing against them because at the end of the day the athletic freaks are what are cherished in competitive sports. So while people like you are throwing money at trainers and "elite" teams thinking that it is getting your child some place special, you need to know that all that it is going to take is for one of those freaks to decide that they want your kid's spot on the team and with the way this environment works your kid will get bumped off it in a nano second. Now I actually don't think that is right but I do know that is what happens. I'm simply trying add a little objectivity to the environment by tipping you off about the inevitable because the further you go up that talent pyramid the more likely you are going to run into one of the athletic freaks. You are just shooting the messenger carrying the cut notice, that's all that you are doing.



This is a fair criticism. No doubt NEFC has grown in leaps and bounds and they really are quite good at getting their marketing messages out. I use the plural when writing about this because I do not want to single out any one club. I actually see the problems more as a global thing than a club specific thing but if you really want my version of the NEFC commercial I'd be happy to tell you that we couldn't have accomplished what we have accomplished with this daughter without the hard work and personal sacrifices of a lot of individuals in the club. They were truly awesome with us but I don't anyone to think that just by putting on an NEFC uniform that they are going to get the same level of commitment we got never mind the same results. That type of thinking is actually what I'm really trying distance us from. My message has always been that the individual player is what makes the club not the reverse.



I actually beg to differ with you. I actually have Newbies approach me all of the time asking for advice so I know darn well that a lot of people don't understand what club soccer is all about. How can they, many weren't athletes themselves or even if they were they are experiencing something that is completely different from what they experienced growing up so it takes some time to see enough to sort it all out. I know in my case it wasn't until my oldest was a U17 and I had done this for 6-7 years that I finally figured out what I really needed to know about club soccer and I was a fairly involved basketball coach myself and was once a fairly high level D1 athlete that had seen a thing or two over the years. It is not nearly as easy as some of you are apt to make it out to be because when you get right down to it if you are really trying to parlay youth soccer into a college soccer scholarship all of this comes down to being brutally objective about what your kid brings to the table athletically and then being able to pick a path and personally direct them through what has now become a literal maze of leagues and id programs that half the parents don't even know exist. There is no one size fits all approach to club soccer and my experience has been that those who see it all that simply usually have tunnel vision defined strictly by their own personal wants, needs and desires.

Several of my staunchest critics ultimately fall into that category. They seem to have very low expectations of club soccer and see it really as more of recreational outlet than I truly think many of the families who get involved with club soccer and stay with it through to the end believe it to be. I will admit that I have run across a few parents like them over the past 15 years who did not think anything about the costs (usually because they were extremely wealthy and these costs were just a drop in the bucket for them) and truly were in this just to put a smile on their kid's face but they were just a very small minority. The bulk of what I have run across over the past 7-8 years since costs have skyrocketed are extremely focused on using club soccer as a pathway to college and are very much interested in the ins and outs of the environment. Let's face it, if this weren't true, you wouldn't have anything like the ECNL which basically sells itself as that pathway.

But only for the top 10%.
For the rest, it should be viewed as recreational, but the clubs have done a fantastic job of convincing them it is so much more.
The balance has beem completely lost.