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Originally posted by Unregistered View PostPublic school players can get waivers too
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Unless your dad is a coach for an Academy (coach Scales) then it is unlikely that your kid will get to play public high school soccer and academy.
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The clubs may not like it, but the practice is more prevalant than these posts suggest. You can check the rosters yourselves and see the games played. While it could be because of injuries and/or other reasons, many of the kids who played in half of the overall games are kids who joined after their prep season was over (I think you can also track which games they played in, and you'll see that they played in the spring). Clubs certainly don't like it, and neither do the parents of the kids who have given up playing for HS. They'll tell you it's for kids with financial issues, but that's not always the case (and yes, there have been non-prep kids who got waivers). But the clubs don't want to open the floodgates.
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Originally posted by Unregistered View PostThe clubs may not like it, but the practice is more prevalant than these posts suggest. You can check the rosters yourselves and see the games played. While it could be because of injuries and/or other reasons, many of the kids who played in half of the overall games are kids who joined after their prep season was over (I think you can also track which games they played in, and you'll see that they played in the spring). Clubs certainly don't like it, and neither do the parents of the kids who have given up playing for HS. They'll tell you it's for kids with financial issues, but that's not always the case (and yes, there have been non-prep kids who got waivers). But the clubs don't want to open the floodgates.
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Originally posted by Unregistered View PostThe clubs may not like it, but the practice is more prevalant than these posts suggest. You can check the rosters yourselves and see the games played. While it could be because of injuries and/or other reasons, many of the kids who played in half of the overall games are kids who joined after their prep season was over (I think you can also track which games they played in, and you'll see that they played in the spring). Clubs certainly don't like it, and neither do the parents of the kids who have given up playing for HS. They'll tell you it's for kids with financial issues, but that's not always the case (and yes, there have been non-prep kids who got waivers). But the clubs don't want to open the floodgates.
I don't have any issue with the DAP teams giving waivers. it gives an opportunity for the other kids to play in games that they might not have otherwise gotten into. The issue I have with the DAP system is that the word development is contradictory (in part) to how the games are managed.
Roster 18-23 for the season...Roster 18 for each game...very few subs and when you are out, you are out.
To make the subbing like it is in the pros seems ludicrous to me. It is not really an exercise for the kids, but more so for the coaches to see how they can manipulate the rostering/subbing and still be in the game....perhaps win.
In the sense of development, each rostered player should get into the games and for 20 minutes or so. There is NOTHING developmental about traveling to a game and not playing. This makes even less sense at U14 and U16.
At the onset of the academy and pre academy...when you were subbed out in the first half, you could still play in the second half. This was, at least, more friendly to get the kids onto the field.
If there was any thought of kids playing academy for college looks....then why not sub like the colleges do...very liberally.
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Originally posted by Unregistered View PostI don't have any issue with the DAP teams giving waivers. it gives an opportunity for the other kids to play in games that they might not have otherwise gotten into. The issue I have with the DAP system is that the word development is contradictory (in part) to how the games are managed.
Roster 18-23 for the season...Roster 18 for each game...very few subs and when you are out, you are out.
To make the subbing like it is in the pros seems ludicrous to me. It is not really an exercise for the kids, but more so for the coaches to see how they can manipulate the rostering/subbing and still be in the game....perhaps win.
In the sense of development, each rostered player should get into the games and for 20 minutes or so. There is NOTHING developmental about traveling to a game and not playing. This makes even less sense at U14 and U16.
At the onset of the academy and pre academy...when you were subbed out in the first half, you could still play in the second half. This was, at least, more friendly to get the kids onto the field.
If there was any thought of kids playing academy for college looks....then why not sub like the colleges do...very liberally.
because US Soccer does not care about the bottom half. Remember the goal is to create MNT players. If everyone gets 20 minutes the level of competition drops and hence less good touches for the elite one or two percent. It's sad (for the bottom half) but a necessity IMO to develop the top players.
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Originally posted by Unregistered View Postbecause US Soccer does not care about the bottom half. Remember the goal is to create MNT players. If everyone gets 20 minutes the level of competition drops and hence less good touches for the elite one or two percent. It's sad (for the bottom half) but a necessity IMO to develop the top players.
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Originally posted by Unregistered View Postbecause US Soccer does not care about the bottom half. Remember the goal is to create MNT players. If everyone gets 20 minutes the level of competition drops and hence less good touches for the elite one or two percent. It's sad (for the bottom half) but a necessity IMO to develop the top players.
I disagree with this concept that this is necessary to develop the top 1-2%, and even more so at the U12-U16 age groups. For the U18 they should only roster 16-18, and, for development purposes bring up the stronger U16s when able and/or necessary.
I contend that there is no data that the current mode of playtime and subbing adds anything to the top 1-2%, and, the corollary, it likely creates a system that misses 5-8% (I can throw out numbers too) that peak late. Overall, a loss for development.
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Originally posted by Unregistered View PostThat and the bulk of the clubs are clubs, not non profits for the betterment of soccer. It's a business. To keep the business strong they need players; to get players they need wins (because fact is parents will focus on records). Coaches need good records to keep their jobs. Even MLS clubs, that operate a different model, still want wins - there are egos involved.
That said, the poster who said that the "development" applies to the top 20% got it right. Consistent with the mission of the program, it is not "development for all," but development for those most likely to contribute to NT efforts (probably more like 10% than 20%). Everyone else is along for the ride, and it's a pretty good ride if you understand going in what it's all about.
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Originally posted by Unregistered View PostI disagree with this concept that this is necessary to develop the top 1-2%, and even more so at the U12-U16 age groups. For the U18 they should only roster 16-18, and, for development purposes bring up the stronger U16s when able and/or necessary.
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Originally posted by Unregistered View PostI don't know how much you've been around U18 DAP, but a roster of 20 can turn into 13 or 14 on game day due to injuries, college visits, SAT/ACT, senior proms, etc. It's not uncommon for there to be U18 spring games with only one or two subs for both teams!
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Originally posted by Unregistered View PostDAP clubs definitely do NOT play to win at all costs (particularly the Revs, locally, and other area clubs, too, for the most part). They generally play in the style mandated by US Soccer with just enough variation across clubs to make it interesting.
That said, the poster who said that the "development" applies to the top 20% got it right. Consistent with the mission of the program, it is not "development for all," but development for those most likely to contribute to NT efforts (probably more like 10% than 20%). Everyone else is along for the ride, and it's a pretty good ride if you understand going in what it's all about.
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I don't have any issue with the DAP teams giving waivers. it gives an opportunity for the other kids to play in games that they might not have otherwise gotten into. The issue I have with the DAP system is that the word development is contradictory (in part) to how the games are managed.
Roster 18-23 for the season...Roster 18 for each game...very few subs and when you are out, you are out.
To make the subbing like it is in the pros seems ludicrous to me. It is not really an exercise for the kids, but more so for the coaches to see how they can manipulate the rostering/subbing and still be in the game....perhaps win.
In the sense of development, each rostered player should get into the games and for 20 minutes or so. There is NOTHING developmental about traveling to a game and not playing. This makes even less sense at U14 and U16.
At the onset of the academy and pre academy...when you were subbed out in the first half, you could still play in the second half. This was, at least, more friendly to get the kids onto the field.
If there was any thought of kids playing academy for college looks....then why not sub like the colleges do...very liberally.
Originally posted by Unregistered View PostI don't know how much you've been around U18 DAP, but a roster of 20 can turn into 13 or 14 on game day due to injuries, college visits, SAT/ACT, senior proms, etc. It's not uncommon for there to be U18 spring games with only one or two subs for both teams!
If you read my original and second posts, my angst regarding roster size, subbing, and playtime was greater with the younger ages. I even went on to say that the smaller U18 roster would allow development of u16 players who could get called up to play. I know plenty about the DAP teams.
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