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Should town Maple teams stop after U12?

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    Should town Maple teams stop after U12?

    There are many competitive town based club teams at the younger ages in Maple. Filling out an 8v8 roster with enough talented kids is realistic for most towns. Several of these towns have qualified coaches, decent training and they operate at a much lower cost. It's a win/win for everyone involved. Then U13 happens.

    The expansion to 11v11 puts a real strain on these teams and the coaches. The parents get used to being competitive and they go into the U13 season with high expectations. When they get exposed on the big field, and the weaker players get taken advantage of, the mood on the sideline begins to turn. The kids get frustrated and the parents get surly. By the end of the Fall season there is a lot of whispering going on. By April people have reached out to the larger clubs to test the waters.

    There are very few town based clubs that succeed after U12. I can't think of any off the top of my head but I'm sure someone will chime in with one. Why can't the model be U-little to U12 in town and then release them onward and upward to a traditional club. Watching a town club team at U13 is like watching Brett Favre trying to play well past his prime.

    Most people involved in town soccer do it for the very best reason. They want to help kids succeed. Holding on to them for too long runs completely counter to that.

    #2
    I thought all teams in MAPLE were town teams.

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      #3
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      I thought all teams in MAPLE were town teams.
      that is not always the case - plenty of u13 town club teams better than club teams with terrible players from 10 towns

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        #4
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        I thought all teams in MAPLE were town teams.
        truly idiotic, unbalanced, and petty.

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          #5
          When the going gets tough...quit. Not a great solution. So maybe the team is not as competitive. Losing some soccer games is better than not losing because your kid is not playing.

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            #6
            Not every player wants (or is able) to play club. Offering town programs are a good middle ground for many of them. As long as there is still a demand programs should be offered to make sure that as many kids keep playing as possible. towns that do a decent job will be able to keep it running. Towns that can't eventually won't. But why give up before the market dictates it?

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              #7
              Agreed. Success is not winning games. Success is keeping as many kids actively involved soccer for as long as possible.

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                #8
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                Agreed. Success is not winning games. Success is keeping as many kids actively involved soccer for as long as possible.
                This is the struggle many town programs have. That is what is the goal of town soccer?
                Is it to allow "all" kids to play?
                Or is it to develop talent, that focus on the best players?

                Is used to be that most kids started with club soccer at u11, now that many clubs have pushed down into 1st grade, I would say the idea that town soccer can develop young players is gone.

                So success is keeping as many kids involved in soccer for as long as possible. Towns can try to have their own clubs programs, but that has problems too.

                If I were to design a good town program I would focus on what the club teams can't offer
                1. Accept all players
                2. Pay for good coaching
                3. Build and maintain top facilities
                4. Provide year-round training (summer, winter, school vacations)
                5. Parent coach training
                6. Chances for teenagers to ref games for a little money
                7. A system to evaluate and refer talented kids to club teams

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  Agreed. Success is not winning games. Success is keeping as many kids actively involved soccer for as long as possible.
                  I agree but the better players seem quick to move to better clubs when things go from good to bad. Once the other parents sense the better kids are leaving a panic sets in that they are being left behind. A less than perfect situation quickly turns to a toxic one.

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                    #10
                    Individuals will always have to choose where to play and that choice is out of the soccer organization's control. Offer the best program you can. There is a market for quality lower cost programs. Plenty of good players cannot afford expensive teams.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      Individuals will always have to choose where to play and that choice is out of the soccer organization's control. Offer the best program you can. There is a market for quality lower cost programs. Plenty of good players cannot afford expensive teams.
                      While I agree that not everyone can afford(or wants to afford) playing at a large club, if the child is good enough the club will make the numbers work.

                      Volunteer coaches of strong town teams enjoy winning. They seem to enjoy beating club teams more than beating other town teams. At U13 when the losing starts it wears on the coach. When the defections start because the losing hasn't stopped it puts even more strain on the volunteer coach. Most parents begin to realize that for an extra $500/year they could play for a large club with a better(or more consistently talented) team. The realization that they are no longer getting what they paid for(by this I mean wins because most have no idea about development and they can't quantify it) makes them restless. Things become completely unglued because motivation drops for both the kids and the parents. I've seen this happen over and over again.

                      Town teams continue to charge more money. As they close the gap between town and club fees they make it much easier for families to make the jump.

                      Town coaches can do a perfectly good job training players, but it only works when they have a large number of talented players to keep the energy and skill level high. When those kids defect it brings the team talent level down. Practices degrade because the bar has been lowered and the kids left over aren't as fast or skilled. The kids the team backfills with are the same kids they cut at tryouts. Everything gets slower and the team gets worse. As the U13 or U14 team publicly implodes the parents of younger teams start whispering among themselves about the fate that apparently awaits them in a couple years. The slow motion train wreck infects the entire club.

                      Am I wrong? Am I missing a town club team that is currently doing well at U13, U14 or U15? I'm willing to listen.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        This is the struggle many town programs have. That is what is the goal of town soccer?
                        Is it to allow "all" kids to play?
                        Or is it to develop talent, that focus on the best players?

                        Is used to be that most kids started with club soccer at u11, now that many clubs have pushed down into 1st grade, I would say the idea that town soccer can develop young players is gone.

                        So success is keeping as many kids involved in soccer for as long as possible. Towns can try to have their own clubs programs, but that has problems too.

                        If I were to design a good town program I would focus on what the club teams can't offer
                        1. Accept all players
                        2. Pay for good coaching
                        3. Build and maintain top facilities
                        4. Provide year-round training (summer, winter, school vacations)
                        5. Parent coach training
                        6. Chances for teenagers to ref games for a little money
                        7. A system to evaluate and refer talented kids to club teams
                        Our town does the top 6 of these, but they will never do 7. They openly frown upon kids going to club and make any of those who go to a premier club feel bad. They even tried to do a hybrid town/club system and they pay professional coaches and offer lots of great extra free training to help keep kids in town. The problem is now it costs a lot more, and kids are leaving anyway, making it financially almost impossible for players to play both (which I guess they hate anyway). They should scrap some of this and go back to making it affordable so that those club players can more easily play both and stop making them feel like pariahs when they do.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          Our town does the top 6 of these, but they will never do 7. They openly frown upon kids going to club and make any of those who go to a premier club feel bad. They even tried to do a hybrid town/club system and they pay professional coaches and offer lots of great extra free training to help keep kids in town. The problem is now it costs a lot more, and kids are leaving anyway, making it financially almost impossible for players to play both (which I guess they hate anyway). They should scrap some of this and go back to making it affordable so that those club players can more easily play both and stop making them feel like pariahs when they do.
                          There's a reason clubs charge what they do. It's expensive to operate with all these teams and paid coaches. As soon as a town ups it's game and pays for professional coaches things get expensive and costs trickle down. If kids leave then there are less people to spread the costs across. If the good kids leave the talent goes down and the cost goes up. Town clubs are a slippery slope.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            Our town does the top 6 of these, but they will never do 7. They openly frown upon kids going to club and make any of those who go to a premier club feel bad. They even tried to do a hybrid town/club system and they pay professional coaches and offer lots of great extra free training to help keep kids in town. The problem is now it costs a lot more, and kids are leaving anyway, making it financially almost impossible for players to play both (which I guess they hate anyway). They should scrap some of this and go back to making it affordable so that those club players can more easily play both and stop making them feel like pariahs when they do.
                            Good point on the pariah comment. When my kids were playing town, too many of the coaches and other parents would remark on the best players "abandoning" the team to play club. They always stressed how the kids needed to stay together as long as possible in order to have a great HS experience some day. Now, several years later, the best players that left to play at top clubs are impact players on the HS varsity, whereas those that stayed behind played a year of freshman soccer, a year of JV soccer, and are done. My kids loved the social aspect of playing with their friends, but that didn't make up for the awful soccer.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              There's a reason clubs charge what they do. It's expensive to operate with all these teams and paid coaches. As soon as a town ups it's game and pays for professional coaches things get expensive and costs trickle down. If kids leave then there are less people to spread the costs across. If the good kids leave the talent goes down and the cost goes up. Town clubs are a slippery slope.
                              The advantage town teams have is not having to pay for expensive field rentals, and their tournament and travel costs are significantly lower to practically non-existent. The only way they have a chance to keep "better" talent (note, not top talent because they will always leave no matter what) is to have at least some of the coaches be paid coaches. Our rec program did a combo of paid coaches for training during the week (with a parent coach there helping) and the parent coach running weekend games. Cut the coaching fee by a third.

                              Sure there are some good volunteers, but there are many lousy ones. And if you have parent coaches you have issues with perceived favoritism, town politics, etc. The only way to keep town going is to offer solid coaching at a reasonable price. If you can keep it to less than half the price of club plus the appeal to some families of less commitment. travel, etc. it's a feasible proposition. Having a board that cares about the bigger picture helps too.

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