BU13 - Top Teams

[Unregistered]

It was stupid of Maple to move up these teams. Explosion and Strikers are much better and stronger . If your team wants to play in Blue - you need to beat a team from blue in playoffs.

Look what you DONE , 6-0,6-0. Morons.

I assume you know this is exactly the issue that led in part to the creation of NEP--overly formalistic season-by-season relegation rules that ignored the reality of the quality of play. From a pure W-L perspective, Explosion obviously had a disappointing season in the fall--finishing in 9th place with a 2-7 record. But if anyone was actually paying attention, you would see that they had a GD of only -3, and that they were in every match. Their worst loss was by a 2 goal margin. They obviously belong in Blue. But MAPLE relegated them anyways. That's worse for them, and worse for the other Blue teams who now have less competitive matches this spring. The same is true for Strikers, who finished 2-6-1, but also had competitive matches. These are only two examples in one age group, but this was happening over and over again for years to multiple teams across multiple age groups--relegation (and promotion) by MAPLE without any real understanding of the impact on the field. Its no surprise that some clubs with the ability and resources to create their own league finally did so. NEP is far from perfect, and that league makes placement errors too, but I guarantee that Explosion and Strikers would not have been automatically relegated the way they were here.

[Unregistered]

It was stupid of Maple to move up these teams. Explosion and Strikers are much better and stronger . If your team wants to play in Blue - you need to beat a team from blue in playoffs.

Look what you DONE , 6-0,6-0. Morons.

Strikers and Explosion were competitive in every game. Maple needs to look at the actual results not just the records. I suppose that's asking a lot of organization with a fulltime staff that after four months still hasn't worked out the promissed rating points. Mind boggling incompetence.

[Unregistered]

I assume you know this is exactly the issue that led in part to the creation of NEP--overly formalistic season-by-season relegation rules that ignored the reality of the quality of play. From a pure W-L perspective, Explosion obviously had a disappointing season in the fall--finishing in 9th place with a 2-7 record. But if anyone was actually paying attention, you would see that they had a GD of only -3, and that they were in every match. Their worst loss was by a 2 goal margin. They obviously belong in Blue. But MAPLE relegated them anyways. That's worse for them, and worse for the other Blue teams who now have less competitive matches this spring. The same is true for Strikers, who finished 2-6-1, but also had competitive matches. These are only two examples in one age group, but this was happening over and over again for years to multiple teams across multiple age groups--relegation (and promotion) by MAPLE without any real understanding of the impact on the field. Its no surprise that some clubs with the ability and resources to create their own league finally did so. NEP is far from perfect, and that league makes placement errors too, but I guarantee that Explosion and Strikers would not have been automatically relegated the way they were here.

Different poster. I agree with you assessment. My son's team was in the top four of the Blue division and played against explosion. Always good competition. Not sure if they lost a couple of players or not which might have made a difference. I think someone else mentioned it earlier, but why don't they have some sort of match to determine level instead of relegation. It happens every year and it's not good for anyone. Not the team who beats the other team 6-0 and not good for the team that loses.

[Unregistered]

Different poster. I agree with you assessment. My son's team was in the top four of the Blue division and played against explosion. Always good competition. Not sure if they lost a couple of players or not which might have made a difference. I think someone else mentioned it earlier, but why don't they have some sort of match to determine level instead of relegation. It happens every year and it's not good for anyone. Not the team who beats the other team 6-0 and not good for the team that loses.

Yeh but it's a little disingenuous for anyone from NEP to be talking about looking beyond the W-L record. It's big fish politics that determines the top group, not quality of play. Look at the bottom of NPL:
Scorpions 0-0-11 GF 3 GA 51

[Unregistered]

Different poster. I agree with you assessment. My son's team was in the top four of the Blue division and played against explosion. Always good competition. Not sure if they lost a couple of players or not which might have made a difference. I think someone else mentioned it earlier, but why don't they have some sort of match to determine level instead of relegation. It happens every year and it's not good for anyone. Not the team who beats the other team 6-0 and not good for the team that loses.

I agree also BUT you can't just start making decisions in favor of one or two teams after the fact. They have a results based system at this time. We all know Explosion is way better but you can't retroactively change things. I don't understand why you would promote a team based on a team leaving ( u12 valeo made room for galway) Why not just no relegate the higher finisher at the bottom?

[Unregistered]

I agree also BUT you can't just start making decisions in favor of one or two teams after the fact. They have a results based system at this time. We all know Explosion is way better but you can't retroactively change things. I don't understand why you would promote a team based on a team leaving ( u12 valeo made room for galway) Why not just no relegate the higher finisher at the bottom?

I agree. I think your approach makes more sense if I'm reading it right. If one teams drops (U12 Valeo) then take the higher of the two teams that would have been dropped into the lower bracket?

[Unregistered]

I assume you know this is exactly the issue that led in part to the creation of NEP--overly formalistic season-by-season relegation rules that ignored the reality of the quality of play. From a pure W-L perspective, Explosion obviously had a disappointing season in the fall--finishing in 9th place with a 2-7 record. But if anyone was actually paying attention, you would see that they had a GD of only -3, and that they were in every match. Their worst loss was by a 2 goal margin. They obviously belong in Blue. But MAPLE relegated them anyways. That's worse for them, and worse for the other Blue teams who now have less competitive matches this spring. The same is true for Strikers, who finished 2-6-1, but also had competitive matches. These are only two examples in one age group, but this was happening over and over again for years to multiple teams across multiple age groups--relegation (and promotion) by MAPLE without any real understanding of the impact on the field. Its no surprise that some clubs with the ability and resources to create their own league finally did so. NEP is far from perfect, and that league makes placement errors too, but I guarantee that Explosion and Strikers would not have been automatically relegated the way they were here.

MAPLE has not figured out that a 8-0 record in a low division is not the same as 2-7 with a -3 GD in BLUE. This happens every single year. Also in the middle of season. They'll bring a team up from a bottom division that is performing well, where they are killed in Blue. Put them in GREEN.

[Unregistered]

I agree. I think your approach makes more sense if I'm reading it right. If one teams drops (U12 Valeo) then take the higher of the two teams that would have been dropped into the lower bracket?

Of course you are right. In fact, there are lots of reasonable approaches to this issue--including the one you have suggested. The best approaches would include some input from the teams that are in the division, the teams that are being relegated, and the teams that are being promoted (sometimes against their will), as well as a review of more than W-L records. Most importantly, those reasonable approaches require some thought and care about all of the teams affected.
Now imagine if you had considered and proposed all of these possible reasonable approaches to relegation and promotion for multiple years across multiple age groups. And then imagine if year after year, these proposals fell on deaf ears--and that instead the teams in multiple age groups continued to be promoted and relegated without regard to the reality on the field. You keep trying for years, but there is no interest from the decision-makers to have a discussion. What would you do? Eventually, assuming you have the resources and sufficient support from other teams, you would leave and create your own league. Guess what? That's exactly what happened in Mass. What a shame.

[Unregistered]

The problem is that when subjective criteria trumps objective criterea then large club politics are introduced. The winless 3-51 Scorps mentioned earlier is a perfect example. MA boys teams now play in four different leagues, including pre-DAP and EDP. Who benefits from that? Certainly not the players. MA has the same talent as NJ which gets a lot more respect nationally. The difference? No mega clubs in NJ, a dozen very competitive teams that are geographic magnets, they all play each other and are challenged regularly. MA: multiple leagues, mega clubs, diluted second tier teams.

[Unregistered]

The problem is that when subjective criteria trumps objective criterea then large club politics are introduced. The winless 3-51 Scorps mentioned earlier is a perfect example. MA boys teams now play in four different leagues, including pre-DAP and EDP. Who benefits from that? Certainly not the players. MA has the same talent as NJ which gets a lot more respect nationally. The difference? No mega clubs in NJ, a dozen very competitive teams that are geographic magnets, they all play each other and are challenged regularly. MA: multiple leagues, mega clubs, diluted second tier teams.

Very true all around---Only made worse now by 2 State Championships where you have basically taken the Top 10 teams/players and split it in most age groups. The Mass soccer landscape is a dysfunctional mess.

[Unregistered]

Of course you are right. In fact, there are lots of reasonable approaches to this issue--including the one you have suggested. The best approaches would include some input from the teams that are in the division, the teams that are being relegated, and the teams that are being promoted (sometimes against their will), as well as a review of more than W-L records. Most importantly, those reasonable approaches require some thought and care about all of the teams affected.
Now imagine if you had considered and proposed all of these possible reasonable approaches to relegation and promotion for multiple years across multiple age groups. And then imagine if year after year, these proposals fell on deaf ears--and that instead the teams in multiple age groups continued to be promoted and relegated without regard to the reality on the field. You keep trying for years, but there is no interest from the decision-makers to have a discussion. What would you do? Eventually, assuming you have the resources and sufficient support from other teams, you would leave and create your own league. Guess what? That's exactly what happened in Mass. What a shame.

What you have described is reasonable, and a failure on the part of said league to listen to it's members. Unfortunately, a red herring of sorts. It is a convenient "excuse" put forth by the big for profit clubs, who have banded together to control both club and league. At some point, they would have left anyways IMO. It is all about control and dollars.

[Unregistered]

The problem is that when subjective criteria trumps objective criterea then large club politics are introduced. The winless 3-51 Scorps mentioned earlier is a perfect example. MA boys teams now play in four different leagues, including pre-DAP and EDP. Who benefits from that? Certainly not the players. MA has the same talent as NJ which gets a lot more respect nationally. The difference? No mega clubs in NJ, a dozen very competitive teams that are geographic magnets, they all play each other and are challenged regularly. MA: multiple leagues, mega clubs, diluted second tier teams.

Very true all around---Only made worse now by 2 State Championships where you have basically taken the Top 10 teams/players and split it in most age groups. The Mass soccer landscape is a dysfunctional mess.

We're from NY area and keep in touch still. They have no solution either. EDP is totally robbed by this age of top tier because of DAP. Again, split, diluted mess unless your kid is in DAP. Even there, nepotism and deep pockets for that. State of US soccer. :(

[Unregistered]

What you have described is reasonable, and a failure on the part of said league to listen to it's members. Unfortunately, a red herring of sorts. It is a convenient "excuse" put forth by the big for profit clubs, who have banded together to control both club and league. At some point, they would have left anyways IMO. It is all about control and dollars.

You may well be right--these are all businesses in the end. But MAPLE's position as the sole elite league in MA--and the obvious logic of having one league for everyone--was a major reason why those big clubs stayed in MAPLE so long. The league completely squandered that significant historical advantage by not listening to the clubs and failing to democratize some of its processes.

[Unregistered]

You may well be right--these are all businesses in the end. But MAPLE's position as the sole elite league in MA--and the obvious logic of having one league for everyone--was a major reason why those big clubs stayed in MAPLE so long. The league completely squandered that significant historical advantage by not listening to the clubs and failing to democratize some of its processes.

How many people in MAPLE and how in touch (out of touch?) are they?

[Unregistered]

How many people in MAPLE and how in touch (out of touch?) are they?

Same question for NEP. They seem just as corrupt, all about $$. Why are they so out of touch? Just incredible how these leagues have put their personal financial endeavors above the interest of the players.