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    #31
    "Americans have no technical skill to keep up with the rest of the world. Whhhhaaaaaaaa!"

    "Here's a tool that is used in many countries world-wide. It's to provide maximum time on the ball, and many South Americans and Europeans swear by it."

    "But, I don't know about it and we don't play it here. Whhhaaaaaaaa!"

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      My kids played indoor and futsal this weekend so I got to watch both. Indoor was 8v8 on turf. Kid saw fewer touches on the ball and many struggled with their first touch because the ball would bounce so much. Lots of passes in the air and bad touches, mostly waste of time as far as I could see.

      Futsal was the exact opposite: everyone got lots of touches on the ball. the ball is heavier and doesn't bounce, so it stayed on the ground and kids had better first touch and passes and receives. The game was faster paced with more involvement from goalies and also higher scoring than the indoor match. More shots on goal, more saves, more quick counters.

      It is obvious to me that indoor turf games are almost useless for development while futsal is the clear winner. As far as a training tool goes, small-sided indoor turf games may be fine, but I would rather my kids focus their competitive efforts in the winter on futsal. They will get both with their club, so it works out.
      Futsal, like organized soccer or pick-up soccer, is better than no soccer, but you basically just "proved", or rather showed, in more ways than one, why futsal is essentially inconsequential to the outdoor game. I'll let you figure out the multiple reasons why (all based on things you wrote) but I'll give you one example: who or what FORCES kids playing on turf to pass in the air?

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        Yeah, can u believe these folk talking about indoor vs outdoor turf?
        We should just revert back to the old mitre leather panel balls-once wet, they wouldn't bounce on any surface.
        Futsal will be the new love affair that will take us to the top-hallelujah!
        Be mindful who is collecting the checks though. Everyone has an angle here and the pro-Futsal crowd is no different. It's just a training tool not the wonder drug it often gets made out to be. A kids touch is not going to improve unless they put the work necessary into improving it and no matter what anyone writes here an extra game or two of Futsal each is not going to take the place of that work.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by ForzaAzzurri View Post
          Futsal, like organized soccer or pick-up soccer, is better than no soccer, but you basically just "proved", or rather showed, in more ways than one, why futsal is essentially inconsequential to the outdoor game. I'll let you figure out the multiple reasons why (all based on things you wrote) but I'll give you one example: who or what FORCES kids playing on turf to pass in the air?
          Nothing FORCES kids playing on turf to pass in the air, other than they are developing and don't have the requisite control. So, what's the harm in putting a plan in place to help force the issue? Like, I suppose I could take the direction from the TS boobs or could look at the improvements seen with my own eyes: Every single top player on our club plays futsal in the winter. There is a clear delineation between those who do and those who don't. It has changed the impression of our club.


          Messi: “As a little boy in Argentina, I played futsal on the streets and for my club. It was tremendous fun, and it really helped me become who I am today."

          Ronaldo: “During my childhood in Portugal, all we played was futsal," he said. "The small playing area helped me improve my close control, and whenever I played futsal I felt free. If it wasn't for futsal, I wouldn't be the player I am today."

          Xavi: "In futsal, you see whether a player is really talented... you notice the small details in quality, class and tactical understanding."

          Every kid needs to learn to play with the ball vs. run after it. It's a tool to use to help them get comfortable with the physical attributes of having a ball at their feet.

          So amazes me how people feel so threatened with the unknown.

          Comment


            #35
            True. But if your kids and their friends can use a town gym and play futsal for a morning or afternoon on weekends, and a couple hours a couple times during the week, augmenting their club indoor practices, they will be much improved by Spring. And this isn't lining anyones pockets. I've seen this work wonders for players

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              Be mindful who is collecting the checks though. Everyone has an angle here and the pro-Futsal crowd is no different. It's just a training tool not the wonder drug it often gets made out to be. A kids touch is not going to improve unless they put the work necessary into improving it and no matter what anyone writes here an extra game or two of Futsal each is not going to take the place of that work.
              Of course. Everything in life has a cost. The coaches here are also club/college coaches in the area for "real" soccer. In many ways, we like them more than are regular coaches.

              Are they out to make a buck? Sure...it's America after all.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                Of course. Everything in life has a cost. The coaches here are also club/college coaches in the area for "real" soccer. In many ways, we like them more than are regular coaches.

                Are they out to make a buck? Sure...it's America after all.
                Sure, everyone is entitled to make a buck but this site is a cesspool and instead of trying to sell things in a straightforward and transparent ways we have anonymous posters extolling the virtues of a specific training tool disproportionate to its actual value. Your post is a prime example. If you don't like the job your kids club coaches are doing, why are you still with that club? If you have been around for a while you know that the guys running Futsal round here are really nothing special when it comes to coaching. Sure they may be passionate but that doesn't ensure they a actually good coaches.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  My kids played indoor and futsal this weekend so I got to watch both. Indoor was 8v8 on turf. Kid saw fewer touches on the ball and many struggled with their first touch because the ball would bounce so much.

                  Futsal was the exact opposite: everyone got lots of touches on the ball. the ball is heavier and doesn't bounce, so it stayed on the ground
                  Seems to me, those kids need more practice on their first touch with an actual soccer ball so they can learn to control the bounce. Working on first touch with a futsal ball that doesn't bounce is kind of like putting training wheels back onto a bike when a kid already knows how to ride without them, but just needs some more practice before getting good enough to do a wheelie.

                  Most indoor turf is very similar to the outdoor turf the majority of NEP games are played on these days, so it makes more sense when trying to improve touch to practice with the same type of ball and on a similar surface to what they will be using in league play once outdoors again.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    Sure, everyone is entitled to make a buck but this site is a cesspool and instead of trying to sell things in a straightforward and transparent ways we have anonymous posters extolling the virtues of a specific training tool disproportionate to its actual value. Your post is a prime example. If you don't like the job your kids club coaches are doing, why are you still with that club? If you have been around for a while you know that the guys running Futsal round here are really nothing special when it comes to coaching. Sure they may be passionate but that doesn't ensure they a actually good coaches.
                    Didn't say we don't like our club coaches, just that we like the futsal coaches as well.

                    As for "around here", what specifically do you mean? The program we are in are coached by members who are national team coaches, and at least one is a college (real soccer) coach. Very highly regarded in the area.

                    I do get that comes across like a marketing pitch, and I do apologize for that. The fact is I will maintain until she quits the game altogether that this tool is one that took her from a mid-level/ on the cusp -to- a very good player on her team. It's helped her, and everyone who has seen the before and after agrees.

                    That's her story. Everyone is free to write their own.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      Seems to me, those kids need more practice on their first touch with an actual soccer ball so they can learn to control the bounce. Working on first touch with a futsal ball that doesn't bounce is kind of like putting training wheels back onto a bike when a kid already knows how to ride without them, but just needs some more practice before getting good enough to do a wheelie.

                      Most indoor turf is very similar to the outdoor turf the majority of NEP games are played on these days, so it makes more sense when trying to improve touch to practice with the same type of ball and on a similar surface to what they will be using in league play once outdoors again.
                      First touch can (and should) be improved with either individual efforts against a concrete wall or one/two touch passing one other player. This is because a player can get more repetitions per unit time without any distraction - way more repetitions (hundreds, or as many as one can stomach) than one is likely to get in a turf game (tens of touches at the most). Movement off-the-ball (which nobody here has talked about) is more problematic to develop in 5/8-a-side indoor games, as one can generate plenty of offense without involving defenders constantly.

                      Futsal can develop first touch, but (more importantly) is singularly useful for teaching movement off-the-ball. In "wall ball," the defenders are almost always spectators rather than players - especially the weak-side defender. In futsal, the defenders (well, whoever has rotated or switched into a defensive role) must attack, and there are no spectators on the court.

                      This is all so obvious, that when coupled with the best players on the planet saying futsal has helped them (and exactly how), I cannot believe we are having this conversation.

                      -a coach

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        Every single top player on our club plays futsal in the winter. There is a clear delineation between those who do and those who don't.

                        Every kid needs to learn to play with the ball vs. run after it. It's a tool to use to help them get comfortable with the physical attributes of having a ball at their feet.
                        Sounds like you need to make a switch to a new club! If your kid's team is being taught to "run after" the ball during soccer training and the only players on the team who have decent foot skills are those who learned it from 2-3 months of winter Futsal training, it's pretty obvious your club does very little to almost no technical training.

                        Try to find a club that includes one technical training session a week, in addition to regular practices. Most good clubs have a coach dedicated to these technical sessions and who specializes in this kind of training (i.e. does them for the entire club and doesn't have his own team). That extra hour a week of pure foot skill focus with an actual soccer ball really makes a huge difference, especially when the kid comes home after school the rest of the week and works for an hour each day on their technical training homework in the back yard.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          Do you realize that a real soccer ball actually bounces whether it's inside or outside?
                          Yes, but grass and outside turf with rubber crumb or other infill behaves differently than most indoor, especially cheap indoor turf fields. The ball bounced significantly more on the indoor turf than any outdoor field, turf or grass, I've seen. The kids, U10's and U11's, struggled to keep the ball on the ground. Taking 2 or 3 touches to do what took them 1 touch outside or just passing the ball in the air instead of settling it. Do they need to work on their first touch? Sure, and they will.

                          From a developmental standpoint, what I saw with futsal was much better for younger kids. My D is U13 and can bring a ball down on whatever surface she is playing and has a great touch and feel for the ball. That was developed over time with practice juggling, passing (and receiving to a wall) and partners, etc. Has nothing to do with indoor format. Futsal helped her with her transition from attack to defense and vis versa, her 1v1 and control in tight spaces and is just more fun for her because it is fast paced and she gets more touches. She enjoys and wants to compete in Futsal in the winter. Can't say the same about regular indoor, and it is helping her in the areas she needs most.

                          Bottom line, the younger kids could do with a "training wheels" approach by spending more time with Futsal, with the ball at their feet, passing on the ground, working in tight spaces, and the older kids can use it work on other areas of their game or just to stay motivated and in-shape during the off-season.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            First touch can (and should) be improved with either individual efforts against a concrete wall or one/two touch passing one other player. This is because a player can get more repetitions per unit time without any distraction - way more repetitions (hundreds, or as many as one can stomach) than one is likely to get in a turf game (tens of touches at the most). Movement off-the-ball (which nobody here has talked about) is more problematic to develop in 5/8-a-side indoor games, as one can generate plenty of offense without involving defenders constantly.

                            Futsal can develop first touch, but (more importantly) is singularly useful for teaching movement off-the-ball. In "wall ball," the defenders are almost always spectators rather than players - especially the weak-side defender. In futsal, the defenders (well, whoever has rotated or switched into a defensive role) must attack, and there are no spectators on the court.

                            This is all so obvious, that when coupled with the best players on the planet saying futsal has helped them (and exactly how), I cannot believe we are having this conversation.

                            -a coach
                            Sad for the kids coach by you. Formations, formations, formation. NO skills required. This is the reason if you got your arse handed to you it's time to get out. I been told the arse as a coaches hate Futsal.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              Sounds like you need to make a switch to a new club! If your kid's team is being taught to "run after" the ball during soccer training and the only players on the team who have decent foot skills are those who learned it from 2-3 months of winter Futsal training, it's pretty obvious your club does very little to almost no technical training.

                              Try to find a club that includes one technical training session a week, in addition to regular practices. Most good clubs have a coach dedicated to these technical sessions and who specializes in this kind of training (i.e. does them for the entire club and doesn't have his own team). That extra hour a week of pure foot skill focus with an actual soccer ball really makes a huge difference, especially when the kid comes home after school the rest of the week and works for an hour each day on their technical training homework in the back yard.
                              No nitwit. I didn't say we do none. Man, you folks and your agendas are so funny to deal with. Mock what you don't understand, can't comprehend, and then slip in a club slam when you are getting it handed to you. Subject doesn't even matter. Same replies, just to a different subject.

                              The club, for your edification, stresses technical above all else. She is working daily where she can/when she can, but the reality is Futsal helped her. Everyone noticed. It's a tool to enhance her club training.

                              If you had a working grasp of the game, and the outdoor game, you'd realize space is at a premium in futsal. So, no matter what you do...there's an inherent difference in how the game is played. Nobody teaches anyone to chase after a ball like a well-trained lab, but the outdoor game has the space available to it; at least not on our club. No chance in futsal.

                              Take the blinders off chucklefvck.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                Futsal can develop first touch, but (more importantly) is singularly useful for teaching movement off-the-ball. In "wall ball," the defenders are almost always spectators rather than players - especially the weak-side defender. In futsal, the defenders (well, whoever has rotated or switched into a defensive role) must attack, and there are no spectators on the court.

                                This is all so obvious, that when coupled with the best players on the planet saying futsal has helped them (and exactly how), I cannot believe we are having this conversation.

                                -a coach
                                Wow, looks like you need to switch clubs, as well. Is your soccer coach really letting the defenders be "spectators"? My kid's coach switches players around all over the field, and when my kid is on defense, he often uses the space he is given to start or join in an attack. All the defenders on his team regularly score goals, and the his teammates understand that when he attacks as a defender, one player needs to drop back to cover for him. Thought this was pretty elementary tactical curriculum for U9/U10 teams, but maybe not at every club?

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