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**Unregistered** · 04-04-2018, 08:32 AM

Originally posted by Unregistered View Post

DID YOU KNOW? A gun in the home is more likely to be used in a homicide, suicide, or unintentional shooting than to be used in self-defense.

Every time a gun injures or kills in self-defense, it is used:

11 times for completed and attempted suicides (Kellermann, 1998, p. 263).
7 times in criminal assaults and homicides, and
4 times in unintentional shooting deaths or injuries.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/risks-o...un-in-the-home

DID YOU KNOW? Many of the studies cited by gun control advocates aren't representative of the U.S. population as a whole. Look at the population used in the Kellermann article. They mention that the communities were they used were urban and had a small number of Hispanic households, and may not been generalizable to more rural communities or Hispanic households. However, they don't mention that the population as a whole is not even close to being representative of the country as a whole, and therefore may not be generalizable to the country as a whole.

**Unregistered** · 04-04-2018, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by Unregistered View Post

DID YOU KNOW? Many of the studies cited by gun control advocates aren't representative of the U.S. population as a whole. Look at the population used in the Kellermann article. They mention that the communities were they used were urban and had a small number of Hispanic households, and may not been generalizable to more rural communities or Hispanic households. However, they don't mention that the population as a whole is not even close to being representative of the country as a whole, and therefore may not be generalizable to the country as a whole.

DID YOU KNOW that much of the data provided by the pro gun lobby is also made up bullsh*t? Or that the CDC isn't allowed to study gun violence, thanks to a push by the NRA and a compliant GOP controlled Congress?
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/12/h...earch-cdc.html

**Unregistered** · 04-04-2018, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by Unregistered View Post

DID YOU KNOW? Many of the studies cited by gun control advocates aren't representative of the U.S. population as a whole. Look at the population used in the Kellermann article. They mention that the communities were they used were urban and had a small number of Hispanic households, and may not been generalizable to more rural communities or Hispanic households. However, they don't mention that the population as a whole is not even close to being representative of the country as a whole, and therefore may not be generalizable to the country as a whole.

The Kellerman study covered 626 shootings in Memphis, Seattle, and Galveston. I understand the "may not be generalizable" disclaimer, but the conclusions are still compelling. 22 times more homicides/suicides/accidents than defensive shootings. If you are claiming the Kellerman results are not representative, which of those factors would you expect to be drastically different in the general population? In rural areas wouldn't BOTH the numerator and denominator in that equation go down? It would still be a frighteningly large ratio.

I noticed that you just threw dirt at an existing study instead of offering studies or statistics of your own. When the NRA's "good guy with a gun" motto has nothing but a few isolated examples to back it up, that should tell you something.

**Unregistered** · 04-04-2018, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by Unregistered View Post

The Kellerman study covered 626 shootings in Memphis, Seattle, and Galveston. I understand the "may not be generalizable" disclaimer, but the conclusions are still compelling. 22 times more homicides/suicides/accidents than defensive shootings. If you are claiming the Kellerman results are not representative, which of those factors would you expect to be drastically different in the general population? In rural areas wouldn't BOTH the numerator and denominator in that equation go down? It would still be a frighteningly large ratio.

I noticed that you just threw dirt at an existing study instead of offering studies or statistics of your own. When the NRA's "good guy with a gun" motto has nothing but a few isolated examples to back it up, that should tell you something.

You are the one who wants to take away or limit the rights of other people. The burden of proof is on you.

It isn’t just a question of rural vs urban, although that may have an impact. Are rural gun owners more or less likely to secure their guns so that their kids can’t access them? Do rural gun owners do a better job teaching their kids about gun safety, so that even if a kid finds a gun they know not to point it at someone? I don’t know the answer to those questions, but when you select a sample that doesn’t represent the population, you have to show why your sample can be used to make generalizations about the population. Read the actual study, not just the abstract, and look at the composition of the population. Also look at the impact of alcohol, drug use, and domestic violence which also has a role. Race also plays a role. I’m not implying that some races are genetically wired to use guns to kill people, but there are cultural differences in the attitude toward guns that can’t be ignored. This is established fact that both sides agree on. They may disagree about the causes, but both sides recognize that African Americans are disproportionately affected by gun violence. White people are much more likely to use a gun to commit suicide. African Americans are much more likely to die as a result of homicide. Over 60 percent of the population in the Kellermann study was African American. This weights the results significantly toward causes and outcomes that may only be relevant to African Americans who live in urban areas. So it is a data point, but not a very useful one.

**Unregistered** · 04-04-2018, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by Unregistered View Post

You are the one who wants to take away or limit the rights of other people. The burden of proof is on you.

In the past year AR-15s were used in one case of personal defense and 100 cases of innocent deaths. That's proof enough for me. It's probably proof enough for everybody except the 3% of Americans who own 50% of America's guns, and the NRA of course.

**Unregistered** · 04-04-2018, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by Unregistered View Post

In the past year AR-15s were used in one case of personal defense and 100 cases of innocent deaths. That's proof enough for me. It's probably proof enough for everybody except the 3% of Americans who own 50% of America's guns, and the NRA of course.

Fortunately, our rights aren’t limited only to those items that are regularly used for self defense, or to those that you think someone else “needs.”

**Unregistered** · 04-20-2018, 10:02 AM

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fl...SCu?li=BBnb7Kz

Today Forest High School in Ocala is under lock down and students being evacuted. One student was shot.

**Unregistered** · 04-20-2018, 01:54 PM

Russia and the NRA - the main character in the story, Torshin, is also facing sanctions

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...-trump-w518587

In November 2013, the president of the National Rifle Association, David Keene, was introduced as an honored guest at the conference of the Right to Bear Arms, a gun lobby in Moscow. "There are no peoples that are more alike than Americans and Russians," Keene said. "We're hunters. We're shooters. We value the same kinds of things." Keene underscored his friendship with Alexander Torshin, a top politician in the ruling party of Vladimir Putin; for the past three years, Keene said, "I've hosted your senator Alexander Torshin at the National Rifle Association's annual meetings." In words that now carry a darker connotation, Keene insisted, "We need to work together."

Torshin, now 64, is a roly-poly politician, perhaps five feet six, with thick glasses and a passion for borscht – "like medicine!" he once tweeted. A member of Putin's right-wing United Russia party, he served in the Russian senate for more than a decade, forging close ties to Russia's internal security service, the FSB, which awarded him a medal in 2016. His embrace of Keene, says Steven Hall, who served as chief of Russian operations for the CIA until 2015, was about more than forging "an international brotherhood of the NRA."

As part of Putin's "active measures," Hall says, Russia has attempted to influence right-wing and populist factions abroad, preaching unity around social conservatism: "'We're both religious-based countries – we have the Orthodox Church that's a big deal for us.' " The Russians, Hall believes, "made a natural transition in the United States to the NRA"; over time Putin became determined to exploit the American gun lobby "and decided Mr. Torshin is going to be the guy to do it for him."

Keene proved an easy mark....

**Unregistered** · 04-20-2018, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by Unregistered View Post

Russia and the NRA - the main character in the story, Torshin, is also facing sanctions

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...-trump-w518587

In November 2013, the president of the National Rifle Association, David Keene, was introduced as an honored guest at the conference of the Right to Bear Arms, a gun lobby in Moscow. "There are no peoples that are more alike than Americans and Russians," Keene said. "We're hunters. We're shooters. We value the same kinds of things." Keene underscored his friendship with Alexander Torshin, a top politician in the ruling party of Vladimir Putin; for the past three years, Keene said, "I've hosted your senator Alexander Torshin at the National Rifle Association's annual meetings." In words that now carry a darker connotation, Keene insisted, "We need to work together."

Torshin, now 64, is a roly-poly politician, perhaps five feet six, with thick glasses and a passion for borscht – "like medicine!" he once tweeted. A member of Putin's right-wing United Russia party, he served in the Russian senate for more than a decade, forging close ties to Russia's internal security service, the FSB, which awarded him a medal in 2016. His embrace of Keene, says Steven Hall, who served as chief of Russian operations for the CIA until 2015, was about more than forging "an international brotherhood of the NRA."

As part of Putin's "active measures," Hall says, Russia has attempted to influence right-wing and populist factions abroad, preaching unity around social conservatism: "'We're both religious-based countries – we have the Orthodox Church that's a big deal for us.' " The Russians, Hall believes, "made a natural transition in the United States to the NRA"; over time Putin became determined to exploit the American gun lobby "and decided Mr. Torshin is going to be the guy to do it for him."

Keene proved an easy mark....

Interesting. And you say all this happened under Obama? Very interesting.

**Unregistered** · 04-21-2018, 05:54 AM

Loving my tax cut

**Unregistered** · 04-22-2018, 09:42 AM

what if ALIENS from OUTER SPACE drop lines with smoking HOOK, BAIT$hop SINKERumps?!

what if RASH of RUSHends OWLS smoking with WATER FOWLinks $LUMBERaids TOWN$hip?!

what if any HINDU godRAINS smoking SHRINE to BIGash SHRINK TAPEworm SILK & SATIN?!

what if favourite PERSIAN or ORIENTAL CARpets are smoking dRUGames READING$how?!

what if SLOW PARENTS think CAMELS & GOATS smoke in FIELD & PASTURE of GRAIN SILO?!

**Unregistered** · 04-22-2018, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by Unregistered View Post

Loving my tax cut

If $75/every two weeks is a difference maker to you then you're in bad shape brother

**Unregistered** · 04-22-2018, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by Unregistered View Post

Loving my tax cut

Our kids will all be paying for it. GOP finally admitted what economists said all along - it will drive the deficit up to unsustainable levels, few corporations or wealthy individuals will plow their massive cuts back into the economy.