What right do you have to expect your club coach to call college coaches?

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Whoa, whoa, WHY? If you are spending a bloody fortune and committing untold family energy on elite soccer why are you supposed to just drop that pursuit and focus on the academic fit? Not saying school isn't important but this advice presumes that soccer isn't the primary driver and if soccer isn't the primary driver why is everyone going crazy with elite soccer?

This is like saying a family sends their kid to a high priced prep school and doesn't expect the guidance councilors there to help them get into an elite college.

Great question. If the education is so important why are we even talking about recruiting? Why are we even talking about things like the ECNL?

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op here - coach is amazing and our player has really improved. I believe that is an important part of the job description. There are other coaches in the club who can assist with college questions as they have plenty of experience.

Regardless, you can't rely on others to do the heavy lifting for you. Coaches can help guide you to the appropriate soccer programs but parents and players have to decide where is the best fit overall.

Getting your child to play soccer in college is a group effort. The bulk of the work falls on the kid because they have to produce in the class and on the field as well as put together a life plan and execute the actual parts of it. The parents are there to support the effort with resources, structure and motivation. Parents who try to do all of this for their child end up making a mistake. The club coach and guidance councilor/teachers are there to help target the effort and supply the recommendations. Their ability to help set the expectations and provide strong recommendations are vital elements. Those of you who would cut out the club coach are losing a valuable resource. Doing that would be as ridiculous as cutting the guidance councilor and teacher out of the equation. One has to wonder just what type of experience and how much of it the person offering the above post has because what they are writing above seems rather short sighted.

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Getting your child to play soccer in college is a group effort. The bulk of the work falls on the kid because they have to produce in the class and on the field as well as put together a life plan and execute the actual parts of it. The parents are there to support the effort with resources, structure and motivation. Parents who try to do all of this for their child end up making a mistake. The club coach and guidance councilor/teachers are there to help target the effort and supply the recommendations. Their ability to help set the expectations and provide strong recommendations are vital elements. Those of you who would cut out the club coach are losing a valuable resource. Doing that would be as ridiculous as cutting the guidance councilor and teacher out of the equation. One has to wonder just what type of experience and how much of it the person offering the above post has because what they are writing above seems rather short sighted.

Thanks for #45 thru #47, BTDT.

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And btw, not hostile to any particular views...just your insane agenda of hate and lies upon lies upon lies.

Interesting pov. You always seem to be pushing an agenda that leads to a very specific landing spot (ie a NESCAC type school) where education takes the priority over athletics. In a discussion about recruiting which is ultimately more about D1/D2 soccer and quite a bit more involved than recruiting at the level you champion your agenda might actually be the one that is insane and seen to be filled with misinformation.

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Thanks for #45 thru #47, BTDT.

Back to that childish game? Are we feeling like the evidence is starting to show how wrong you are? BTW, you are wrong about who posted what and who I am.

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Back to that childish game? Are we feeling like the evidence is starting to show how wrong you are? BTW, you are wrong about who posted what and who I am.

Not wrong in the least. But you are wrong. I'm actually not a big fanof the NESCACs, and I am all for a kid with D1 talent going D1.

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Interesting pov. You always seem to be pushing an agenda that leads to a very specific landing spot (ie a NESCAC type school) where education takes the priority over athletics. In a discussion about recruiting which is ultimately more about D1/D2 soccer and quite a bit more involved than recruiting at the level you champion your agenda might actually be the one that is insane and seen to be filled with misinformation.

Solid observation.

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Getting your child to play soccer in college is a group effort. The bulk of the work falls on the kid because they have to produce in the class and on the field as well as put together a life plan and execute the actual parts of it. The parents are there to support the effort with resources, structure and motivation. Parents who try to do all of this for their child end up making a mistake. The club coach and guidance councilor/teachers are there to help target the effort and supply the recommendations. Their ability to help set the expectations and provide strong recommendations are vital elements. Those of you who would cut out the club coach are losing a valuable resource. Doing that would be as ridiculous as cutting the guidance councilor and teacher out of the equation. One has to wonder just what type of experience and how much of it the person offering the above post has because what they are writing above seems rather short sighted.

Another solid observation. Why is the expectation being set that club coaches should NOT add anything to the process?

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Another solid observation. Why is the expectation being set that club coaches should NOT add anything to the process?

Is rather funny how just about every consumer usually wants more for their buck and yet in club soccer we are told to shut up and be grateful for what we get.

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3 obvious BTDT posts in a row.

Do you ever get fatigued? Ever wonder what you are doing or how silly you look?

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3 obvious BTDT posts in a row.

Do you ever get fatigued? Ever wonder what you are doing or how silly you look?

Do you?? How about just responding to the content for once? Maybe that IS the problem, you have been responding but your side of things was starting to look pretty narrow minded and stupid so you punted and are back to playing defense trying switch focus of the discussion. Pretty sad if you ask me.

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Do you?? How about just responding to the content for once? Maybe that IS the problem, you have been responding but your side of things was starting to look pretty narrow minded and stupid so you punted and are back to playing defense trying switch focus of the discussion. Pretty sad if you ask me.

There are no words to describe how pathetic you are, BTDT. A real hall of fame career you have here. I don't have "a side of things." One of the key points you never have understood.

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There are no words to describe how pathetic you are, BTDT. A real hall of fame career you have here. I don't have "a side of things." One of the key points you never have understood.

Almost spit out my beer. YOU don't have a side of things?? Did you really just write that??

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There are philosophical and personality differences between all clubs. The divide between the Stars and NEFC is a heck of a lot bigger than you seem to think and I think that is exactly the reason we have so much back and forth between them. They are both hyper competitive clubs who approach things VERY differently. I personally think that one of the big reasons for all rancor is the Stars constituency really doesn't fully appreciate just how MUCH different the approaches are. Half the arguments on this forum come down to the Stars saying things are black and NEFC firing back adamantly saying NO, they are white. The reality is neither are wrong, they just represent different opinions on how to get to the same place.

Here is the real issue with the high school situation and how the clubs deal with it actually illustrates the differences between them. What happens during the high school years in every club across America is the player intensity level almost evaporates. There are a lot of perfectly valid reasons for why this happens but in a nut shell high school kids just have too much on their plate to be able to just concentrate on soccer.

This begets two real problems in the club soccer world. The players start to stall their development which also stalls the development of the teams. It also starts to hurt the club's reputation because the kids then aren't ready to move on to college because they haven't worked hard enough to prepare for it. Both clubs are clearly dealing with the same issue.

The Stars are addressing the problem by basically trying to put the kids into a more controlled environment. NEFC is trying to address the problem by creating it's IDP program which is a just a little more voluntary approach. The contrast should be apparent. One goes for tight control, the other goes for a more voluntary approach.

The truly interesting thing is they are both having the same problems with these efforts, the kid's still just are not turning out to participate and so neither have actually found the solution yet. My bet is that they both know it at this point.

I actually give both clubs a lot of credit for trying to address the problem. It IS a problem and it really DOES need to solved. I personally think the Stars approach has less odds of being successful simply because they have to fight a whole lot cultural and logistical issues just to set things up so the players might show up. I think that even if they are successful in convincing the kids to quit their high school team they are going see what NEFC is seeing, that the players are still going to skip the practices because of school work or the myriad of other conflicts that a typical high school kid has. That said, I can see fully the logic behind what they are doing and absolutely concur that it is a valid approach.

In the end the "high school" issue is just a smoke screen really and I think that this forum could actually be quite helpful in solving the actual problem by simply educating the parents to the fact that what their high school aged kid is doing for soccer just isn't enough if their kid really does want to be a high level soccer player that goes on to actually play in college.

BTDT, you hit some good points but are all over the map. Too much VERY DIFFERENT and either/or thinking. I don't agree that the clubs use TS equally for some marketing program. But that aside, if one takes your post in total you are saying Stars and NEFC are both very much alike. You centered it this time around the problem of high school kids being overwhelmed, slacking off, and not maxing on their potential. You said both clubs have devised strategies to combat that. You argue that one is voluntary and one is not, even though, apparently, the Stars' "fix" IS still voluntary. Let's say for the sake of argument that JD is disappointed when a player chooses high school. Do you think the NEFC coaches frown a little bit when they've invited a kid to IDP trainings and the kid doesn't show? And maybe that influences over time the coach's perception of the player's motivation/dedication level.

My guess is that any differences are minimal. Of course it is natural that you on your marketing project here need to underscore and embellish differences, always slanted very positively in NEFC's favor, as part of your deal here.

I think you don't understand the people at NEFC all that well. I don't think emotions like disappointment really enter into things with them like you seem to think. When one gets disappointed they tend to get angry and when one gets angry they tend to lash back. A guy like Hamblin doesn't really lash back at his players. He might go too far the other way in fact. He wouldn't punish players or call them out for not showing up at practice. Hamblin might make a group announcement at practice or if he has a real problem with a player, have a meeting with the parents and player, but he doesn't hold onto something like disappoint and use it to justify changing a player's role. It's just not how he does it. What Hamblin does is draw a line in the sand and tell the player to cross it if they are really serious. He basically throws it all back on the players and their families and tells them that he has all of the things they need to take the steps forward but they have to take the steps themselves. He'll bend over backwards helping anyone who will take those steps but he doesn't beat up anyone who doesn't. Not saying it is better, just that it is different.

Of course there are always different personality styles. That happens everywhere in life. But think about NEFC's recruitment program that you have been touting so highly. Is CH going to give as glowing a report to college coaches and work just as hard as a go-between for the kids who appear to be slacking off? Are you saying he doesn't see or have any reaction to a kid who appears to have high D1 talent slacking herself into a D3 slot? Is he going to still sell that kid as a high D1 talent even though she has slipped (and despite her and her family believing that she STILL is a high D1 talent)?

Yes, what he actually does is tell the players that he can't give the college coach a positive reference unless they pick it up. All coaches have sticks. That is actually his. He is pretty blunt about it and will tell the player that when the coach calls he'll tell them the truth. That's all part of their recruitment process you put down so often. What he does is sit each of the families down and gives them a pretty honest assessment of where he thinks each kid can play and how he can help them. A kid who is a slacker gets the slacking off built into that assessment. He actually readjusts a lot of people's expectations (both ways too) based upon effort. He'll tell a kid that they have a certain level D1 talent but then tell them he can't recommend them to a coach there because they don't work hard enough. What he then tries to do is reset expectations where things might fit better. Don't get me wrong, it's not a perfect science and it does create its share of issues. The only thing I'm trying to say is it is a different approach. This by the way is just the first time you have actually tried to understand it.

Agreed. Sounds pretty much normal.

Where are all the personal phone calls and college hookups? Or was that all BS?

He absolutely does them. The guy is very connected at the college level and is talking to coaches all the time about player(s) - plural. Part of the issue with kids that are committed is he does actually give feedback to their future coaches because he is doing so much with other age groups. If he has a soph who is interested in a particular college and he has a jr or sr that is already committed there, I know for a fact that he will talk about the status of all of them with that coach because I have heard about it from both ends.

For those that didn't see it, this discussion took place yesterday in another thread. I thought is was quite civil and gave some particularly useful insight that is more germane to this thread.

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For those that didn't see it, this discussion took place yesterday in another thread. I thought is was quite civil and gave some particularly useful insight that is more germane to this thread.

Too funny. Where are the attacks on the Stars?