Girls DAP vs ECNL; Do explain

[Unregistered]

Even if there were the funding and interest for it (which I don't think is there) a girls program would run into the same issue as on the boys' side - scale. The boys side has separated even further between the MLS and non MLS clubs in terms of talent and coaching quality. But to make it a viable league they need all those clubs to play each other. It'd be even more cost prohibitive for MLS teams to fly all over the country to just play each other. There's only a few parts of the country where you could make it work

However I think the larger issue is what others have mentioned - on the girls side the players and their parents are more about college. That's the end game for them. It is on the boys side as well for many players already with only incremental improvements to the mens' game if at all. HArd to pitch such a system to one gender when it isn't really working for the other

This makes sense. I find girls DAP both unnecessary and unwelcome. Especially if it adheres to the No High School Soccer policy, and creates a greater economic filter due to travel costs. College coaches are in-season during the fall, and attend few if any showcase events. Let the girls play HS. I fear there is an ample supply of parents in the arms race willing to pay and pursue a level-up badge

[Unregistered]

This makes sense. I find girls DAP both unnecessary and unwelcome. Especially if it adheres to the No High School Soccer policy, and creates a greater economic filter due to travel costs. College coaches are in-season during the fall, and attend few if any showcase events. Let the girls play HS. I fear there is an ample supply of parents in the arms race willing to pay and pursue a level-up badge

OP here - I don't agree your last sentence. I think parents know there's no need for it. Only way is if the system shifted, like it did when ECNL was created. College is their target. Only a handful could make any NT roster and they're quickly ID'd. Professional path? Most are smart enough to earn their degrees first or simultaneously. College is too important and costly to pass up those lucrative $$$ for anything else.

[Unregistered]

OP here - I don't agree your last sentence. I think parents know there's no need for it. Only way is if the system shifted, like it did when ECNL was created. College is their target. Only a handful could make any NT roster and they're quickly ID'd. Professional path? Most are smart enough to earn their degrees first or simultaneously. College is too important and costly to pass up those lucrative $$$ for anything else.

If there were great financial incentive to find and develop the greatest female soccer stars, it would happen. ECNL has created a great system for finding some of the soccer talent that is in a position to finance their own development. Don't see that changing as there is no $$$$$ to be made in women's soccer.

[beentheredonethat]

Even if there were the funding and interest for it (which I don't think is there) a girls program would run into the same issue as on the boys' side - scale. The boys side has separated even further between the MLS and non MLS clubs in terms of talent and coaching quality. But to make it a viable league they need all those clubs to play each other. It'd be even more cost prohibitive for MLS teams to fly all over the country to just play each other. There's only a few parts of the country where you could make it work

However I think the larger issue is what others have mentioned - on the girls side the players and their parents are more about college. That's the end game for them. It is on the boys side as well for many players already with only incremental improvements to the mens' game if at all. HArd to pitch such a system to one gender when it isn't really working for the other

I think that you are absolutely correct about the scale thing in that DAP and the ECNL were allowed to get too big and that has completely watered them down. The truth of the matter is there just are not that many pro caliber players in any one age group in each DAP club across the country. Personally, I think part of the solution is to scale back the number of age groups down to 1 and trim back the number of clubs in any given area to 1, but I am not sure that would work economically.

I will tell you though that you are not really correct about the end game on the girl's side for the level player you are really talking about. When you get to true pro caliber players, they know that there is money to be made over seas and while earning that money might take a back seat for a few years to getting an under graduate degree I would suggest that few of them see themselves as simply stopping after their college career is over. The personality you are talking about is just too driven for that. Obviously things like injuries and changing priorities (ie marriage and kids) will change that for some, but with that level of player I wouldn't take that to be the majority.

[Unregistered]

I think that you are absolutely correct about the scale thing in that DAP and the ECNL were allowed to get too big and that has completely watered them down. The truth of the matter is there just are not that many pro caliber players in any one age group in each DAP club across the country. Personally, I think part of the solution is to scale back the number of age groups down to 1 and trim back the number of clubs in any given area to 1, but I am not sure that would work economically.

I will tell you though that you are not really correct about the end game on the girl's side for the level player you are really talking about. When you get to true pro caliber players, they know that there is money to be made over seas and while earning that money might take a back seat for a few years to getting an under graduate degree I would suggest that few of them see themselves as simply stopping after their college career is over. The personality you are talking about is just too driven for that. Obviously things like injuries and changing priorities (ie marriage and kids) will change that for some, but with that level of player I wouldn't take that to be the majority.

There is no money to be made overseas.

[Unregistered]

The academies have to be run with US soccer helping the clubs involved offset the cost of it. Clubs will find way to subsidize less fortunated talents. Will it be perfect? No, but this is the only way. There is no money to run it separately.

[Unregistered]

I think that you are absolutely correct about the scale thing in that DAP and the ECNL were allowed to get too big and that has completely watered them down. The truth of the matter is there just are not that many pro caliber players in any one age group in each DAP club across the country. Personally, I think part of the solution is to scale back the number of age groups down to 1 and trim back the number of clubs in any given area to 1, but I am not sure that would work economically.

I will tell you though that you are not really correct about the end game on the girl's side for the level player you are really talking about. When you get to true pro caliber players, they know that there is money to be made over seas and while earning that money might take a back seat for a few years to getting an under graduate degree I would suggest that few of them see themselves as simply stopping after their college career is over. The personality you are talking about is just too driven for that. Obviously things like injuries and changing priorities (ie marriage and kids) will change that for some, but with that level of player I wouldn't take that to be the majority.

The type of player you describe is a rare exception. Far far far fewer women than men. I'm sure coaches dream of such players but they're as rare as leprechauns and pots of gold at the end of the rainbow

[Unregistered]

The academies have to be run with US soccer helping the clubs involved offset the cost of it. Clubs will find way to subsidize less fortunated talents. Will it be perfect? No, but this is the only way. There is no money to run it separately.

Which is why it won't happen.

[beentheredonethat]

If there were great financial incentive to find and develop the greatest female soccer stars, it would happen. ECNL has created a great system for finding some of the soccer talent that is in a position to finance their own development. Don't see that changing as there is no $$$$$ to be made in women's soccer.

Sorry, but the ECNL is just not what you are selling here. All it really is, is a marketing ploy to sell roster spots in specific clubs and at this point most of parents have come to realize that the league itself is superfluous. When you boil everything down all that really matters is the specific soccer people that you surround your player with and the motivation your player applies to their development. When you have good people working with your kid and your kid is highly motivated good things happen regardless of where they play.

My net message is there are many ways to accomplish the goal. If you want to use the ECNL, it will work just fine, just know that it is not the only way to accomplish the goal. From our experience, I would just say that it isn't the most cost effective way to go about doing things. In our case we used ODP to get the exposure and the WPSL to get the speed of play. It worked great and cost us a fraction of what my friends with players on ECNL teams ended up spending. Truthfully though that just comes down to different strokes for different folks.

The problem we actually struggled with (and I am fairly sure most families with high level players do also) was the training environment. The issue there is there really is just are not a high concentration of similarly skilled/motivated players all in one place so you end up on a track by yourself piecing things together. Our club was awesome about helping us put those pieces together but it certainly wasn't easy for them or for us which I why I think the Girl's DAP will catch on. It's really the part that is missing.

[Unregistered]

Sorry, but the ECNL is just not what you are selling here. All it really is, is a marketing ploy to sell roster spots in specific clubs and at this point most of parents have come to realize that the league itself is superfluous. When you boil everything down all that really matters is the specific soccer people that you surround your player with and the motivation your player applies to their development. When you have good people working with your kid and your kid is highly motivated good things happen regardless of where they play.

My net message is there are many ways to accomplish the goal. If you want to use the ECNL, it will work just fine, just know that it is not the only way to accomplish the goal. From our experience, I would just say that it isn't the most cost effective way to go about doing things. In our case we used ODP to get the exposure and the WPSL to get the speed of play. It worked great and cost us a fraction of what my friends with players on ECNL teams ended up spending. Truthfully though that just comes down to different strokes for different folks.

The problem we actually struggled with (and I am fairly sure most families with high level players do also) was the training environment. The issue there is there really is just are not a high concentration of similarly skilled/motivated players all in one place so you end up on a track by yourself piecing things together. Our club was awesome about helping us put those pieces together but it certainly wasn't easy for them or for us which I why I think the Girl's DAP will catch on. It's really the part that is missing.

Welcome back after your long hiatus. What you will find is that you will have the exact same complaints about a Girls DAP....when you boil it down....and net it down.

[Unregistered]

The ultra-superior athlete who has a chance to be a world-class player in any sport will always piece things together in very individualized and idiosyncratic ways. Any sport. The "system" is never going to stand on its head to cater to these anomalies because it's not created or designed to do so. What's "watered down" from one vista isn't watered down from other vistas.

[beentheredonethat]

The type of player you describe is a rare exception. Far far far fewer women than men. I'm sure coaches dream of such players but they're as rare as leprechauns and pots of gold at the end of the rainbow

I absolutely agree that they are rare just not as rare as you seem to think. I would also suggest that you are incorrect about there being fewer elite level female players since the American women are still considered to be the best female soccer players on the planet. I would bet that there are actually more pro/international level female soccer players in this country than male.

A lot of that has to do with the disparity in the opportunities. On the women's side there are a lot more opportunities out there than you apparently are willing to look at. There is roughly twice as much scholarship money out there for women than what is available on the men's side and the while the pro money is not as lucrative as on the men's, it's not the peanuts that gets portrayed here either. I wouldn't be surprised at all that if you backed out the huge salaries of the hand full of top American male players out of the equation that the men's and women's salaries would be fairly comparable.

The real problem with developing high level soccer players is we have completely dumbed things down so the clubs can make money. That is why the top level male players at the youth level all seem to be leaving the country in middle school to join academies over seas until FIFA clamped down on that recently.

[beentheredonethat]

Welcome back after your long hiatus. What you will find is that you will have the exact same complaints about a Girls DAP....when you boil it down....and net it down.

I am not complaining, just offering an opinion based upon our experience. Things have worked out great for this daughter so why would I have to complain about anything. I'm simply offering a perspective that the "cookie cutter" solutions that get peddled here all the time don't actually work all that well for the players that they are supposedly targeted at. I will admit that I suspect that frosts your mug and I do enjoy that.

[Unregistered]

I am not complaining, just offering an opinion based upon our experience. Things have worked out great for this daughter so why would I have to complain about anything. I'm simply offering a perspective that the "cookie cutter" solutions that get peddled here all the time don't actually work all that well for the players that they are supposedly targeted at. I will admit that I suspect that frosts your mug and I do enjoy that.

Re-read your sentence above a thousand times.

The funny thing is that there are no cookie cutter solutions. And the other funny thing is that you seem to want one. Most look for a competitive league to play in and then adapt and enhance around that to fit their goals (which are not always the same as yours).

[beentheredonethat]

The ultra-superior athlete who has a chance to be a world-class player in any sport will always piece things together in very individualized and idiosyncratic ways. Any sport. The "system" is never going to stand on its head to cater to these anomalies because it's not created or designed to do so. What's "watered down" from one vista isn't watered down from other vistas.

The big problem we experience with the environment is the league structures and economic incentives create an artificial leveling that actively blocks players from advancing beyond their "teams". It is as though there is a glass ceiling and there really is no way for talent to rise to their optimal level of competitive ability. It's really screwed up. Honestly, if not for the ODP regional pool and national team pulling my daughter out she never would have developed the way she did. I don't know if many people know this but my daughter actually had to go on loan so to speak and play with the Aztec and Breakers in the WPSL to keep moving forward as a player. That was all about solid people like Chris Hamblin and Doc Simpson being able to work together to do what was right for a player like my daughter. I can't thank them enough for that. The thing is, I doubt many other players get that type of cooperation all that frequently which is a shame. That is one of the reasons I speak up, I don't know if people really understand just how dysfunctional this environment really is and who the good guys are.