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**Unregistered** · 11-24-2014, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by Unregistered View Post

I have always thought things like,

1. sliding from behind
2. pulling shirts
3. kicking the ball away on free kicks for other team
4. obvious diving to get a call
5. trash talking in a language the other player does not understand
6. laughing after you hurt another player on a tackle

were all signs of a dirty player.

I recently had a talk with a father from another country that said his kids play like that and his coaches teaches these things because they consider them to be real soccer and the players with the most passion and style all play that way. He said the suburbanites don't like it and are trying to water down the game to make it more sterilized for the rich kids so they complain about cheating and dirty play when it is really the flavor of the game.

What do you say, should I teach my kid to do these things?

not all players should act this way, but it's also not the sign of a dirty player. A dirty player injures another player or makes tackles that could injure another player. All the other things you say are part of the game. If you are talking about kids under u12, it's not right, and really reflects poorly on the parents, but as they are older, all these things are just part of the game... Don't you watch soccer ???

**Unregistered** · 11-24-2014, 12:03 PM

you make a good point, but am I free to then yell at the ref and try to convince him to card the kid for his late and reckless challenges? Can I yell at the ref that he should card the little punk for simulation?

Can I yell at the kid to "get up" when he goes down in a heap in the box when no one touches him?

All of that happens in the games as they get older too.

**Unregistered** · 11-24-2014, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by Unregistered View Post

I have always thought things like,

1. sliding from behind
2. pulling shirts
3. kicking the ball away on free kicks for other team
4. obvious diving to get a call
5. trash talking in a language the other player does not understand
6. laughing after you hurt another player on a tackle

were all signs of a dirty player.

I recently had a talk with a father from another country that said his kids play like that and his coaches teaches these things because they consider them to be real soccer and the players with the most passion and style all play that way. He said the suburbanites don't like it and are trying to water down the game to make it more sterilized for the rich kids so they complain about cheating and dirty play when it is really the flavor of the game.

What do you say, should I teach my kid to do these things?

my opinion: 6 is dirty. 1 spikes down is aggressive but not necessarily dirty. 2 is part of the game and funny. 3 is childish and shows disrespect t your opponent. 4 and 5 are part of the game at almost every level.

**Unregistered** · 11-24-2014, 12:08 PM

My son's team faced those exact scenarios this weekend at the Phoenix Cup against the FV AC Delray team. Technically and tactically extremely gifted young boys and our kids were outplayed, but the behavior and "style" of their kids, parents and coach were quite shady.

**Unregistered** · 11-24-2014, 12:10 PM

So the next question is:

is it OK to tell the refs the other kids are punks and he should card them for simulation, pulling shirts, tackling after ball is gone.

It may be part of the game as they get older, but the ref will be made aware of it from my parents side line and we will probably yell at the punk on the other team.

Hope his parents don't get mad.

**Unregistered** · 11-24-2014, 12:11 PM

You should always play with the passions.

The passions is very good....

**Unregistered** · 11-24-2014, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by Unregistered View Post

you make a good point, but am I free to then yell at the ref and try to convince him to card the kid for his late and reckless challenges? Can I yell at the ref that he should card the little punk for simulation?

Can I yell at the kid to "get up" when he goes down in a heap in the box when no one touches him?

All of that happens in the games as they get older too.

Again, depends what age. I have seen some really ridiculous behavior with kids under u12 from both coaches and parents. As they enter true competitive (which in my view starts when they play real soccer 11v11) they need to understand how to play the game and its consequences...so if a ref does not card a flop at u16, yes, I think you have every right to yell at the ref from the sideline... yelling at kids is another matter. I think you need to exercise discretion when it comes to yelling at children. just my opinion. and by the way, with older kids you have enforcers, like say in hockey, that make the dirty tackle a lose-lose proposition. this is a tough international sport. not like you said some form of entertainment for suburban parents.

**Unregistered** · 11-24-2014, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by Unregistered View Post

Again, depends what age. I have seen some really ridiculous behavior with kids under u12 from both coaches and parents. As they enter true competitive (which in my view starts when they play real soccer 11v11) they need to understand how to play the game and its consequences...so if a ref does not card a flop at u16, yes, I think you have every right to yell at the ref from the sideline... yelling at kids is another matter. I think you need to exercise discretion when it comes to yelling at children. just my opinion. and by the way, with older kids you have enforcers, like say in hockey, that make the dirty tackle a lose-lose proposition. this is a tough international sport. not like you said some form of entertainment for suburban parents.

I appreciate your comments. Some good thoughts and common sense approach. I agree with you mostly, but think if the kids want to play like little pros, then expect to get heckled from fans, and as you said, have an enforcer from the other team go head hunting on you.

**Unregistered** · 11-24-2014, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by Unregistered View Post

My son's team faced those exact scenarios this weekend at the Phoenix Cup against the FV AC Delray team. Technically and tactically extremely gifted young boys and our kids were outplayed, but the behavior and "style" of their kids, parents and coach were quite shady.

If this is the age group I am thinking about, these are u12s or u11s. Keep it clean, if possible, at that age. You may see these kids pull shorts or pinch, but not some of the other things on the list. I still think that is an age for development and formation, not "dirty" play.

**Unregistered** · 11-24-2014, 12:20 PM

"Dirty" in my humble opinion would something that was intentionally meant to hurt or injure another player. Fouls are part of the game and strategically fouling at times is the right thing to do. Sometimes fouls hurt players when the player committing the foul did not mean to hurt the other player. I just don't see how tugging a jersey or grabbing is "dirty" unless you are yanking someone to the ground? Foul yes, dirty no. Kids do a lot of these things not because they are taught them, but because they are watching it on TV or at other games.

**Unregistered** · 11-24-2014, 12:33 PM

It's simple, if you don't play like that the other team/player has an advantage because although not dirty, when combined it gives you an edge. Once you get to big boys soccer U16 and up if you just play the game nice and clean you're going to struggle. It's part of the game, plain and simple.

Dirty is going above and beyond a simple pull of the jersey or sticking an arm out to get some distance. Cleats up above the knee, elbows to the face and knees in the spine when you jump for a ball is dirty. That you shouldn't do and is not part of the code for normal soccer playing.

An experienced soccer player knows what he can and cannot get away with and plays withing those boundaries. If you don't you're at a disadvantage.

**Unregistered** · 11-24-2014, 12:37 PM

When my son played U9, he was a pretty fast kid that would get in the box often and got fouled a lot. He typically stayed on his feet because he had good balance but it would mess up his shot or he might lose the ball.

His coach told him that anytime he was in the box and someone got near him, he should not fight to stay on his feet but should go down. Teaching him to dive at u9 did not sit right with me or my son, but I guess we should have listened. He would be a more skilled diver by now if he had practiced it since U9.

Why do we ridicule divers as cheats if it is part of the game? ie Suarez, Arjen Robben etc

**Unregistered** · 11-24-2014, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by Unregistered View Post

I have always thought things like,

1. sliding from behind
2. pulling shirts
3. kicking the ball away on free kicks for other team
4. obvious diving to get a call
5. trash talking in a language the other player does not understand
6. laughing after you hurt another player on a tackle

were all signs of a dirty player.

1. The only time I see this in youth soccer is when either the player is trying to hurt someone or has been beat and does it out of frustration. Havent seen any youth players who can slide from behind and get ball.

2. like most sports, some bit of gamesmanship is part of it.

3. Classless.

4. No place in sports. Purists like to call it the beautiful game. Diving is not beautiful and definitely not the right message.

5. Gutless. If you are going to trash talk, be creative and do it so the other player can understand it. There can be an art to trash talk but what you describe is a punk move.

6. Dirty player who is classless and gutless.

Soccer people always crack me up. On one hand it is all about creativity and skill and not just the best athlete. On the other hand they claim all of this is part of the game in other countries. Make up your mind. Is it a beautiful game or just a bunch of punks?

**Unregistered** · 11-24-2014, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by Unregistered View Post

not all players should act this way, but it's also not the sign of a dirty player. A dirty player injures another player or makes tackles that could injure another player. All the other things you say are part of the game. If you are talking about kids under u12, it's not right, and really reflects poorly on the parents, but as they are older, all these things are just part of the game... Don't you watch soccer ???

doesnt reflect poorly on parents at all. aggressive play that is within the rules is great. You cant teach that. The kid that is afraid of everyting reflects poorly on the parents. u12 is when you should start to see those kids stand out of the crowd and tend to be defenders or central players. I watched the pheonix cup this weekend and I thought the ac team played fine. I also watched the pheonix team and the tcu team. all of them had players that were either aggressive or passive. your point here doesnt make sense. i can point out any contact sport and show you players that are more aggresssive than others and those players will probably get more recognition as they get older because coaches want to see players that play without fear but not cause too many penalties. look at the top defenders in the premier league. they are known for everything this blog stated. they hit hard. they win balls. they do everyhting they can to get under the skin of the people they are defending. those parents are benefitting from having aggressive players.

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