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MASoccer
08-16-2007, 02:16 PM
When this forum was started the guest postings were minimal and I felt they added a lot to the discussions. As of late this trend has reversed. Guest postings have become much more mean spirited and many times those posting anonymously have directly attacked other individuals.

Because of the guest postings it is impossible to keep track of who said what. The flow of the thread becomes drastically impeded since it is difficult to respond or debate issues. There have been a few times that I would rather IM the poster instead of debating the issue publicly, but unless you are a registered user this is not possible. I would like to reverse my original stance that guest postings become no longer allowed. I feel strongly that this privilege has been seriously abused and really dilutes the credibilty of some of the topics discussed. Just taking a few minutes to register a name is easy to do. Users still remain anonymous, it allows better fluidity to the discussions, and as an added benefit you get to post your own personal avatar!

In the MPS thread there were 413 guest postings (give or take) out of 671 total posts. This is the trend lately where topics are dominated by annonymous responses. It is very tough to follow these threads since you don't know if it's the same person pretending to post as different people or if they truly are different individuals.

I agree with the highlighted portion. However, as long as the moderators allow unregistered "Guests" to post, they are actually encouraging this kind of stuff. Not to mention they open the forum to the potential of some really offensive stuff being posted.

pitch420
08-16-2007, 02:22 PM
I would like to reverse my original stance that guest postings become no longer allowed.

I agree with you on this.

However, I dont think it will be that simple to fix unfortunately as I believe any change would cut across all forums here on this BB. We're not the only ones here.

Would be great to be able to filter them though but only after someone teaches that Fred guy how to stay logged in

http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/clipart/cool-2.gif

MASoccer
08-16-2007, 02:38 PM
Interesting another advantage to registering:

Why can't I vote in polls?
Only registered users can vote in polls so as to prevent spoofing of results. If you have registered and still cannot vote then you probably do not have appropriate access rights.

Didn't realize this when I setup the poll but alas, the advantages of membership!!
http://www.pic4ever.com/images/za2.gif

08-16-2007, 02:59 PM
When this forum was started the guest postings were minimal and I felt they added a lot to the discussions. As of late this trend has reversed. Guest postings have become much more mean spirited and many times those posting anonymously have directly attacked other individuals.

Because of the guest postings it is impossible to keep track of who said what. The flow of the thread becomes drastically impeded since it is difficult to respond or debate issues. There have been a few times that I would rather IM the poster instead of debating the issue publicly, but unless you are a registered user this is not possible. I would like to reverse my original stance that guest postings become no longer allowed. I feel strongly that this privilege has been seriously abused and really dilutes the credibilty of some of the topics discussed. Just taking a few minutes to register a name is easy to do. Users still remain anonymous, it allows better fluidity to the discussions, and as an added benefit you get to post your own personal avatar!

In the MPS thread there were 413 guest postings (give or take) out of 671 total posts. This is the trend lately where topics are dominated by annonymous responses. It is very tough to follow these threads since you don't know if it's the same person pretending to post as different people or if they truly are different individuals.

I agree with the highlighted portion. However, as long as the moderators allow unregistered "Guests" to post, they are actually encouraging this kind of stuff. Not to mention they open the forum to the potential of some really offensive stuff being posted.

As you are someone who only recently felt comfortable enough to post, it's a bit surprising that you would be so bothered by this. After all, who is better poised to understand someone's reluctance to identify themselves?

FSM
08-16-2007, 03:02 PM
I'd have to agree with Pitch and MASoccer, but not for the same reasons. One of the coaching forums I visit had recently encountered a steady stream of spam attacks that ranged from annoying advertisements (viagra for example) to some with very offensive content (as in pornographic). They have since chosen to require new users enter a valid email address in order to register and then post once verified. I don't know the ins and outs of how these forums work, but that, to me, sounds like a good reason to make guests register.

08-16-2007, 03:45 PM
In the MPS thread there were 413 guest postings (give or take) out of 671 total posts. This is the trend lately where topics are dominated by annonymous responses. It is very tough to follow these threads since you don't know if it's the same person pretending to post as different people or if they truly are different individuals.

The MPS thread is the Jarndyce v. Jarndyce of threads. I am certain the great majority of readers do not give a hoot and holler about it. Abandon all hope, ye who enter there!

The forum would be a nicer but duller and less informative place without Guest posts.

MASoccer
08-16-2007, 04:02 PM
As you are someone who only recently felt comfortable enough to post, it's a bit surprising that you would be so bothered by this. After all, who is better poised to understand someone's reluctance to identify themselves?

It's not the anonymity that bothers me, it's the annoyance of trying to follow discussions and the deliberate deception by a handful of guests that exploit a loophole in the forum. When one person is pretending to be many different people it dilutes the purpose of the discussion. there have been times that Guests have posted and quoted their own posts in a reponse in order to bolster their position.

I am one person with one username, I have been very clear about my position on a number of topics. Again the advantages of a username is to follow a thread and get a true picture of ones position. Guest, to guest, to guest is extremely difficult to follow and the tone of the conversations tend to become more personal and mean spirited, mainly because there is no way to trace who posted it.

JustForFun
08-16-2007, 04:16 PM
MASoccer writes:

It's not the anonymity that bothers me, it's the annoyance of trying to follow discussions and the deliberate deception by a handful of guests that exploit a loophole in the forum.

I agree with MASoccer. There are a lot of threads that I stop reading because I am unable to follow the discussion. But vetting the Guest posts without some reasonable Moderator vetting, is pointless. Moderators, who act the same as Guests with deliberate deception, and randomly shut down threads, are just as detrimental to the Forum. Anonymity is fine, but on the Touchline there was a consistent Moderator as well as a lack of Guests. Both issues are why I have significant less interest in participating these days.

08-16-2007, 04:39 PM
I also have changed my position on this. I used to think more and/or better information could be gained with Guest posting allowed because of the increased level of anonymity. What has resulted is the opposite. So many of the Guest posts tend to be juvenile, non-informational and hostile.

For example for about 35 pages now I have felt that someone, or some people, using the Guest feature on the MPS thread were keeping that thread alive by design, by reacting 'defensively' to every post as if someone was 'bashing' MPS, even though few of the posts did that. All publicity is good publicity I guess is the theory.

MASoccers research indicating 413 out of 671 posts using the Guest feature in that thread would support that theory.

The 'Guests' are ruining the Forum. Some of the better posters have mentioned less enjoyment. I think it has turned into kindergarten in some threads.

The level of participation in this Forum will be reduced by the 'trolls' if they arent controlled..

"Would be great to be able to filter them though but only after someone teaches that Fred guy how to stay logged in"

If someone could teach me how to stay logged in after I hit submit and I am logged out by the system, that would be good too.

Fred Marks
08-16-2007, 04:41 PM
Fred M. ^

FXWLD 24/7
08-16-2007, 05:06 PM
MASoccer writes:

It's not the anonymity that bothers me, it's the annoyance of trying to follow discussions and the deliberate deception by a handful of guests that exploit a loophole in the forum.

I agree with MASoccer. There are a lot of threads that I stop reading because I am unable to follow the discussion. But vetting the Guest posts without some reasonable Moderator vetting, is pointless. Moderators, who act the same as Guests with deliberate deception, and randomly shut down threads, are just as detrimental to the Forum. Anonymity is fine, but on the Touchline there was a consistent Moderator as well as a lack of Guests. Both issues are why I have significant less interest in participating these days.

As a newbie, my first thread being shutdown has impacted my interest in the forum. Between that random shutdown and some of the guest posting it feels like a forum that is being manipulated for someone's gain, which IMO is disgusting :vom: (Sorry thought this needed a visual). I am a good example of someone who read touchline off and on for a couple of years and took the new forum as an opportunity to participate. I vote for registering.

FSM
08-16-2007, 05:53 PM
There is still Keeper's site if anyone is willing to move there: http://touchline.informe.com/ and I'd bet keeper would do a good job moderating too.

Cujo
08-16-2007, 08:20 PM
As you are someone who only recently felt comfortable enough to post, it's a bit surprising that you would be so bothered by this. After all, who is better poised to understand someone's reluctance to identify themselves?

It's not the anonymity that bothers me, it's the annoyance of trying to follow discussions and the deliberate deception by a handful of guests that exploit a loophole in the forum. When one person is pretending to be many different people it dilutes the purpose of the discussion. there have been times that Guests have posted and quoted their own posts in a reponse in order to bolster their position.

I am one person with one username, I have been very clear about my position on a number of topics. Again the advantages of a username is to follow a thread and get a true picture of ones position. Guest, to guest, to guest is extremely difficult to follow and the tone of the conversations tend to become more personal and mean spirited, mainly because there is no way to trace who posted it.

I agree - it makes your head spin trying to figure out who is saying what.

Cujo
08-16-2007, 08:23 PM
MASoccer writes:

It's not the anonymity that bothers me, it's the annoyance of trying to follow discussions and the deliberate deception by a handful of guests that exploit a loophole in the forum.

I agree with MASoccer. There are a lot of threads that I stop reading because I am unable to follow the discussion. But vetting the Guest posts without some reasonable Moderator vetting, is pointless. Moderators, who act the same as Guests with deliberate deception, and randomly shut down threads, are just as detrimental to the Forum. Anonymity is fine, but on the Touchline there was a consistent Moderator as well as a lack of Guests. Both issues are why I have significant less interest in participating these days.

Consistent Moderator is fine as long as it is not someone who plays favorites and/or rules with such and iron fist that there is no passion in the forum. It gets heated but it is okay to disagree with someone. How boring would the forum be if we all just sat here taking warm showers together and singing cumbaya.

08-17-2007, 07:32 AM
There is still Keeper's site if anyone is willing to move there: http://touchline.informe.com/ and I'd bet keeper would do a good job moderating too.

The fact that an actual forum poster runs and moderates the site compromises the opinions of those that wish to remain anonymous, even those behind hidden registered names and fictitous locations.

JustForFun
08-17-2007, 11:13 AM
Cujo writes:

How boring would the forum be if we all just sat here taking warm showers together and singing cumbaya

Boring? A warm shower with a set of long slender legs? I would sing two or three rounds of Cumbaya!!!!!!!!!

JustForFun
08-17-2007, 11:20 AM
Fred Marks writes:

If someone could teach me how to stay logged in after I hit submit and I am logged out by the system, that would be good too.

I am not sure if there is any way to stay logged in. Just before I click Submit, I look at the top of the page and confirm it says Log out [JustForFun] (or Log out [Fred Marks]). If the Log out is showing that means you are logged in. If it says Log in with no registered name, then you have been logged out. If I have been logged out, I highlight my whole post and press Ctrl and the letter C to copy my whole post onto the clipboard. I then Log in, go all the way back to make my post and then press CTRL and the letter V to paste the original post off the clipboard and into my new Logged in post. Others might do it differently.

08-17-2007, 11:31 AM
Guest writes:

The fact that an actual forum poster runs and moderates the site compromises the opinions of those that wish to remain anonymous, even those behind hidden registered names and fictitous locations.

Guest - you have missed the point. That is exactly what is happening. That plus the mindless Guest postings .........................................

JustForFun
08-17-2007, 11:34 AM
FSM wrote:

There is still Keeper's site if anyone is willing to move there: http://touchline.informe.com/ and I'd bet keeper would do a good job moderating too.

I am registered and ready to go. If FSM goes - I am going!!!

JustForFun
08-17-2007, 11:43 AM
I moved the Columbus Day thread over the new website. Take a look.

Admin
08-17-2007, 12:22 PM
Just so you guys know, if you want a feature turned on, then simply ask.

I can restrict the MA board to REGISTERED USERS only if you guys want.

This board was mainly domainted by FL soccer when a mass exodus from GotSoccer forums came over to this board along with some other ones because they started charging fees for membership.

We also seem to get more truth from people that wouldn't normally share it when they can be anonymous in their postings. Yes, I agree with you on all the other bad sides to being anonymous as well.

We are currently experimenting with an Anonymous and Registered forum by State as well. Based on your poll, it looks like most people want MA to be registered. Let me know and we can add that.

Blue Devil
08-17-2007, 12:25 PM
My vote is to make it registered posting

Admin
08-17-2007, 12:49 PM
Alright, here's what was done so you guys can try it out.

The MA forum can still be seen by anyone, but in order to post, you must have a registered account.

Fred Marks
08-17-2007, 01:08 PM
nice

Rubber Biscuit
08-17-2007, 01:33 PM
Guest writes:

The fact that an actual forum poster runs and moderates the site compromises the opinions of those that wish to remain anonymous, even those behind hidden registered names and fictitous locations.

Guest - you have missed the point. That is exactly what is happening. That plus the mindless Guest postings .........................................

You have missed the point. Keeper is a poster on this forum. To have that person operating a forum where they have access to all of our information given at registration is disconcerting.

Coup de Boule
08-17-2007, 01:38 PM
http://www.unc.edu/depts/jomc/academics/dri/idog.jpg :D

MASoccer
08-17-2007, 01:57 PM
Alright, here's what was done so you guys can try it out.

The MA forum can still be seen by anyone, but in order to post, you must have a registered account.

http://www.pic4ever.com/images/greenstars.gif

keeper
08-17-2007, 02:09 PM
"All human situations have their inconveniences. We feel those of the present but neither see nor feel those of the future; and hence we often make troublesome changes without amendment, and frequently for the worse." - Benjamin Franklin

The old forum was once very active, but full of people with multiple screen names. It was the Touchline version of "guest". The board was changed and IPs were used to remove some of those names and some of the posters as well. The result was a board that was dying. The same few posters and very little debate. It was a waste time.

If you want to go back to that format, this forum will go the same way. The "guest" feature has allow more people a voice and maybe over time they would have signed up as well.

There is a telling pattern to the request to lock down the board. Certain people do not like to be challenged and want the protection.

"Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Free and unincombered speech brings the bad with the good, but it's still the best option. I would rather let people post without fear and put up with the mischievous "guest".

While my opinion carries little weight, I for one, will no longer participate in this forum.

Good-bye and Logging Off





.

Rubber Biscuit
08-17-2007, 02:17 PM
Alright, here's what was done so you guys can try it out.

The MA forum can still be seen by anyone, but in order to post, you must have a registered account.

http://www.pic4ever.com/images/greenstars.gif

Now that the "Guest" issue has been dealt with, can we move to ban the use of stupid, annoying, immature bouncing emoticons?

Show Me Soccer
08-17-2007, 02:17 PM
nice

Agree!! :)

MASoccer
08-17-2007, 02:32 PM
Now that the "Guest" issue has been dealt with, can we move to ban the use of stupid, annoying, immature bouncing emoticons?

Nah, that really would be boring!

http://www.pic4ever.com/images/be8.gif

Fred Marks
08-17-2007, 03:35 PM
Keeper Nobody is taking anyones freedom of speech away... its their opportunity to cloud issues and toss bombs in total anonymity that is lost.

I disagree with you on this one. This Forum will improve now, not digress.

soccermommy
08-17-2007, 03:46 PM
Keeper Nobody is taking anyones freedom of speech away... its their opportunity to cloud issues and toss bombs in total anonymity that is lost.

I disagree with you on this one. This Forum will improve now, not digress.

No it won't. This forum will no longer provide differing opinions. You and others don't like differing opinions so I hope the 6 or so of you (MASoccer, Bluedevil, MASC etc.) enjoy your agreement on all issues. It was amazing how you generalized that all of those 'Guests' were bomb tossers. I guess since you will disagree with this post, I'm an non-anonomys bomb tosser.

Keeper had it right. Enjoy each other.

Blue Devil
08-17-2007, 03:50 PM
I like the differing opinions - for me it was hard to keep who said what straight

Blue Devil
08-17-2007, 03:51 PM
Keeper Nobody is taking anyones freedom of speech away... its their opportunity to cloud issues and toss bombs in total anonymity that is lost.

I disagree with you on this one. This Forum will improve now, not digress.

No it won't. This forum will no longer provide differing opinions. You and others don't like differing opinions so I hope the 6 or so of you (MASoccer, Bluedevil, MASC etc.) enjoy your agreement on all issues. It was amazing how you generalized that all of those 'Guests' were bomb tossers. I guess since you will disagree with this post, I'm an non-anonomys bomb tosser.

Keeper had it right. Enjoy each other.

This is a good post keep it up

Blue Devil
08-17-2007, 03:54 PM
Keeper Nobody is taking anyones freedom of speech away... its their opportunity to cloud issues and toss bombs in total anonymity that is lost.

I disagree with you on this one. This Forum will improve now, not digress.

No it won't. This forum will no longer provide differing opinions. You and others don't like differing opinions so I hope the 6 or so of you (MASoccer, Bluedevil, MASC etc.) enjoy your agreement on all issues. It was amazing how you generalized that all of those 'Guests' were bomb tossers. I guess since you will disagree with this post, I'm an non-anonomys bomb tosser.
Keeper had it right. Enjoy each other.

You are free to say wahtever you want and you are still anonymous and I can no llonger generalize you because you are an individual instead of one of the masses of "Guest" posters

Blue Devil
08-17-2007, 03:58 PM
last point many of the guest posts were very good - some were not

Fred Marks
08-17-2007, 03:58 PM
''It was amazing how you generalized that all of those 'Guests' were bomb tossers. I guess since you will disagree with this post, I'm an non-anonomys bomb tosser".

I dont think all the Guests were negative or poor posters. I should have been clearer about that. The Guest posting function allowed abusive users to reduce the Forum into something unappealling. To me.

If you want to post register and choose a name.

JustForFun
08-17-2007, 04:03 PM
soccermommy writes:

No it won't. This forum will no longer provide differing opinions. You and others don't like differing opinions so I hope the 6 or so of you (MASoccer, Bluedevil, MASC etc.) enjoy your agreement on all issues. It was amazing how you generalized that all of those 'Guests' were bomb tossers. I guess since you will disagree with this post, I'm an non-anonomys bomb tosser.

Keeper had it right. Enjoy each other.

Hi soccermommy - nice to meet you. Great post! No-one is against disagreement or discourse - we are here to enjoy talking-soccer, but with the Guest feature the continuity of all discussions was ruined. How can there be differing opinions when you can not even read through and follow the discussion?

MASoccer
08-17-2007, 04:04 PM
Keeper Nobody is taking anyones freedom of speech away... its their opportunity to cloud issues and toss bombs in total anonymity that is lost.

I disagree with you on this one. This Forum will improve now, not digress.

No it won't. This forum will no longer provide differing opinions. You and others don't like differing opinions so I hope the 6 or so of you (MASoccer, Bluedevil, MASC etc.) enjoy your agreement on all issues. It was amazing how you generalized that all of those 'Guests' were bomb tossers. I guess since you will disagree with this post, I'm an non-anonomys bomb tosser.

Keeper had it right. Enjoy each other.

No one claimed that the differing opinions were what the problem was. It was the drive by shootings that were a problem. It's easy to throw out an accusation and not stand by and debate it with civillity. There are often items on this board that I don't agree with and there are topics that I post that others disagree upon. The problem with the Guest postings is the inability to have a healthy ongoing discussion of the topic at heart. Guest, to guest, to guest is an impossible thread to understand and follow. For example there have been times that I would much rather respond privately with the person in disagreement rather than debate on a more sensitive topic in an open forum. The guest option doesn't allow this.

I fail to see the problem with just registering a username. Full anonymity is still possible all you need is an email address. With a user name there is more accountability with what someone posts and better progression of the discussions at hand. This isn't intended to be an offensive request, nor an infringement on free speech, just better dialogue regardless of what position you take.

JustForFun
08-17-2007, 04:08 PM
Admin writes:

Just so you guys know, if you want a feature turned on, then simply ask.

Hi Admin - thanks for the support. Can you please read the thread "Touchine Elder Imposter" that was locked by Soccer Fan, and explain why that thread was locked? Accordingly can you please unlock the thread and lock out Soccer Fan from being a Moderator? I think that would please everyone and complete our requests.

soccermommy
08-17-2007, 04:12 PM
last point many of the guest posts were very good - some were not

I agree. Many were excellent. But I can almost guarantee that you now will only be reading posts from the same 6 - 10 regulars. Despite some of the obnoxious guest posts, good (and new!) information was exchanged. If you didn't like a post, don't read it. This is a blog!!! It is not designed to be a controlled atmospher. I enjoyed the give and take of guests. I'm smart enough to read through the bias. I think you all are, too and are, unfortunately, bringing down a good forum.

JustForFun
08-17-2007, 04:19 PM
keeper wrote:

Free and unincombered speech brings the bad with the good, but it's still the best option. I would rather let people post without fear and put up with the mischievous "guest".

I would agree with you 100% if registering was any inconvience or compromised free and unincombered speech in any way. The Fourm picked up because it was that time of the year when it always picks up (State Cup, Tryouts, ID Camp, etc.) and because of the Guest feature. But as with some of good ideas, a few ruined it. Do you read the thread Monitoring the MPS Impact? I stopped reading it a month ago.

Hope you will reconsider - I enjoy your posts. I am a size Large, not because I am overweight!!!!! If you send me a PM I will give you my address so you know where to send the T-shirt.

Blue Devil
08-17-2007, 04:25 PM
last point many of the guest posts were very good - some were not

I agree. Many were excellent. But I can almost guarantee that you now will only be reading posts from the same 6 - 10 regulars. Despite some of the obnoxious guest posts, good (and new!) information was exchanged. If you didn't like a post, don't read it. This is a blog!!! It is not designed to be a controlled atmospher. I enjoyed the give and take of guests. I'm smart enough to read through the bias. I think you all are, too and are, unfortunately, bringing down a good forum.

Why don't you stick around and post and make it 7-11 regulars? :)

JustForFun
08-17-2007, 04:30 PM
soccermommy wrote:

If you didn't like a post, don't read it. This is a blog!!! It is not designed to be a controlled atmospher. I enjoyed the give and take of guests. I'm smart enough to read through the bias.

I do not consider this a Blog. I think of Blogs as written pieces by a gifted writer. And I think I am smart enough to read through the bias, too. The problem is that this is a Forum, a conversation among many people - not a Blog.

Maybe an analogy would help. This is only my opinion. A Blog is like a speech or a sermon. You sit and listen, someone delivers a speech or a sermon, and you think through what is said (verbally or in writing). A Forum is like a large room full of people holding a conversation. If people just starting screaming or yelling, the conversation can not continue - it is rude to scream and yell when others are trying to have a conversation. No-one is trying to stifle opinions, eliminate posters, everyone agrees that the more posts the better. But it is so tiring to hear the people scream and yell all the time when we are just trying to have a civil conversation.

soccermommy
08-17-2007, 04:47 PM
soccermommy wrote:

If you didn't like a post, don't read it. This is a blog!!! It is not designed to be a controlled atmospher. I enjoyed the give and take of guests. I'm smart enough to read through the bias.

I do not consider this a Blog. I think of Blogs as written pieces by a gifted writer. And I think I am smart enough to read through the bias, too. The problem is that this is a Forum, a conversation among many people - not a Blog.

Maybe an analogy would help. This is only my opinion. A Blog is like a speech or a sermon. You sit and listen, someone delivers a speech or a sermon, and you think through what is said (verbally or in writing). A Forum is like a large room full of people holding a conversation. If people just starting screaming or yelling, the conversation can not continue - it is rude to scream and yell when others are trying to have a conversation. No-one is trying to stifle opinions, eliminate posters, everyone agrees that the more posts the better. But it is so tiring to hear the people scream and yell all the time when we are just trying to have a civil conversation.


My age came through. You're right, this is not a blog. As for civil conversation without screaming, you haven't met my extended family. We do fine with it. I think you are already seeing that you will only have the same posters. The conversations were fine.

This isn't a big deal. It's your forum. It won't be as interesting. Probably healthier for all of us to move on to other things anyway.

Blue Devil
08-17-2007, 04:47 PM
Admin writes:

Just so you guys know, if you want a feature turned on, then simply ask.

Hi Admin - thanks for the support. Can you please read the thread "Touchine Elder Imposter" that was locked by Soccer Fan, and explain why that thread was locked? Accordingly can you please unlock the thread and lock out Soccer Fan from being a Moderator? I think that would please everyone and complete our requests.

JFF - I think it would please you and 1-2 others but don't think that I have seen anything that would warrant changing him out as a moderator nor have I seen a big groundswell of other users. Besides locking that thread what else do you find objectionable?

FSM
08-17-2007, 04:59 PM
last point many of the guest posts were very good - some were not

I agree. Many were excellent. But I can almost guarantee that you now will only be reading posts from the same 6 - 10 regulars. Despite some of the obnoxious guest posts, good (and new!) information was exchanged. If you didn't like a post, don't read it. This is a blog!!! It is not designed to be a controlled atmospher. I enjoyed the give and take of guests. I'm smart enough to read through the bias. I think you all are, too and are, unfortunately, bringing down a good forum.

Soccermommy, with the Guest feature, it may have been the same 6-10 regulars, plus their alter egos posting all this time. :smt119

I'm kind of split on this, particularly after reading Keeper's comments. Of bigger concern is the locking of threads by the moderator.

Blue Devil
08-17-2007, 05:02 PM
FSM - did you post as guest?

JustForFun
08-17-2007, 06:02 PM
Blue Devil

JFF - I think it would please you and 1-2 others but don't think that I have seen anything that would warrant changing him out as a moderator nor have I seen a big groundswell of other users. Besides locking that thread what else do you find objectionable?

FSM writes:

Of bigger concern is the locking of threads by the moderator.

I don't think there is anything else - and do I dare say it - I agree with FSM. I think we are all independent minded New Englanders that are very sympathetic to keeper's and soccermommy's posts. But I do not think anyone is sympathetic to the locking of a thread by a mysterious moderator. It smacks of everything that everyone should object to - stifling free speech, abuse of power, etc. I am amazed that everyone does not object and object vehemently. Maybe I am just a want-to-be colonist and there is no tea to toss?

soccermommy
08-17-2007, 06:06 PM
Blue Devil

[quote]JFF - I think it would please you and 1-2 others but don't think that I have seen anything that would warrant changing him out as a moderator nor have I seen a big groundswell of other users. Besides locking that thread what else do you find objectionable?

FSM writes:

Of bigger concern is the locking of threads by the moderator.

I don't think there is anything else - and do I dare say it - I agree with FSM. I think we are all independent minded New Englanders that are very sympathetic to keeper's and soccermommy's posts. But I do not think anyone is sympathetic to the locking of a thread by a mysterious moderator. It smacks of everything that everyone should object to - stifling free speech, abuse of power, etc. I am amazed that everyone does not object and object vehemently. Maybe I am just a want-to-be colonist and there is no tea to toss?[/quote:73m0id8j]

Free speech is dead on this thread. Sometimes you just need to accept defeat and move on.

FXWLD 24/7
08-17-2007, 06:11 PM
Admin writes:

Just so you guys know, if you want a feature turned on, then simply ask.

Hi Admin - thanks for the support. Can you please read the thread "Touchine Elder Imposter" that was locked by Soccer Fan, and explain why that thread was locked? Accordingly can you please unlock the thread and lock out Soccer Fan from being a Moderator? I think that would please everyone and complete our requests.

Admin/Others:

Are Moderators anonymous? Do they know who we are based on our accounts? Soccer Fan keeps being referred to as "he." And I too, would like to understand what was so inappropriate about the thread that "he" shut it down. How often did this happen on touchline? How often does it happen on this forum? What are the reasons?

Thanks

FXWLD 24/7
08-17-2007, 06:14 PM
Blue Devil

[quote]JFF - I think it would please you and 1-2 others but don't think that I have seen anything that would warrant changing him out as a moderator nor have I seen a big groundswell of other users. Besides locking that thread what else do you find objectionable?

FSM writes:

Of bigger concern is the locking of threads by the moderator.

I don't think there is anything else - and do I dare say it - I agree with FSM. I think we are all independent minded New Englanders that are very sympathetic to keeper's and soccermommy's posts. But I do not think anyone is sympathetic to the locking of a thread by a mysterious moderator. It smacks of everything that everyone should object to - stifling free speech, abuse of power, etc. I am amazed that everyone does not object and object vehemently. Maybe I am just a want-to-be colonist and there is no tea to toss?

Free speech is dead on this thread. Sometimes you just need to accept defeat and move on.[/quote:37xk7qhi]

Are Soccer Fan and Soccer Mommy married? jk jk jk

JustForFun
08-17-2007, 06:17 PM
soccermommy writes:

As for civil conversation without screaming, you haven't met my extended family. We do fine with it.

Yes - I expect you do. That is because everyone is registered and so when they scream you can still follow the conversation. Next time you are at a family outing, try putting on a blindfold and just listen. If you do not recognize the voices, I bet you will quickly be very confused and will remove the blindfold out of frustration.

Some people enjoy confusion - my oldest kid for instance. But that is not most of us.

Maybe you can humor me with one explanation - before you were a Guest, now you are soccermommy. Before I had no idea who you were, now I have no idea who you are. Before you were able to say anything you like, now you can say anything you like. Before I could not talk to you, now I can ask you a question and talk with you. Before you enjoyed the Forum, now you think it is healthier to move on? Why?

Admin
08-17-2007, 06:21 PM
Admin writes:

Just so you guys know, if you want a feature turned on, then simply ask.

Hi Admin - thanks for the support. Can you please read the thread "Touchine Elder Imposter" that was locked by Soccer Fan, and explain why that thread was locked? Accordingly can you please unlock the thread and lock out Soccer Fan from being a Moderator? I think that would please everyone and complete our requests.

Admin/Others:

Are Moderators anonymous? Do they know who we are based on our accounts? Soccer Fan keeps being referred to as "he." And I too, would like to understand what was so inappropriate about the thread that "he" shut it down. How often did this happen on touchline? How often does it happen on this forum? What are the reasons?

Thanks

FYI: We have 3 classes on this board as far as Moderators go.

Administrator - Myself and the owner - We have full access to everything and can tell a lot. Since I am a programmer and a dev for PHPBB, I have access to more tools than everyone else as well.

Power Moderator - Hybrid between Moderator and Administrator. Enough power to do damage to the board but not full access.

Moderators - Several of them around the board - They have limited access and basically have limited functions only restricted to edit/locking/reporting and etc. No personal information access to lookup (ie: IP, etc.) or ban people. As they prove to be good, over time they get upgraded to more powers.

All actions by ranks are logged and reviewed from time to time. Even deletions don't ever get deleted until I purge the logs.

JustForFun
08-17-2007, 06:25 PM
Thanks Admin,

Any idea why the thread was locked? Can you take Soccer Fan off our list of Moderators?

Thanks, JFF

Red99
08-17-2007, 06:30 PM
Admin writes:

Just so you guys know, if you want a feature turned on, then simply ask.

Hi Admin - thanks for the support. Can you please read the thread "Touchine Elder Imposter" that was locked by Soccer Fan, and explain why that thread was locked? Accordingly can you please unlock the thread and lock out Soccer Fan from being a Moderator? I think that would please everyone and complete our requests.

JFF - I think it would please you and 1-2 others but don't think that I have seen anything that would warrant changing him out as a moderator nor have I seen a big groundswell of other users. Besides locking that thread what else do you find objectionable?

I don't feel like looking it up, but I could've sworn I saw actual Soccer Fan (or maybe another moderator?) commentary on at least one thread (I think it was the one talking about Stars & tryouts) -- I remember it because I thought it was very odd that a moderator was offering opinion on any subject matter of a thread on the forum.

soccermommy
08-17-2007, 06:40 PM
soccermommy writes:

As for civil conversation without screaming, you haven't met my extended family. We do fine with it.

Yes - I expect you do. That is because everyone is registered and so when they scream you can still follow the conversation. Next time you are at a family outing, try putting on a blindfold and just listen. If you do not recognize the voices, I bet you will quickly be very confused and will remove the blindfold out of frustration.

Some people enjoy confusion - my oldest kid for instance. But that is not most of us.

Maybe you can humor me with one explanation - before you were a Guest, now you are soccermommy. Before I had no idea who you were, now I have no idea who you are. Before you were able to say anything you like, now you can say anything you like. Before I could not talk to you, now I can ask you a question and talk with you. Before you enjoyed the Forum, now you think it is healthier to move on? Why?

Because it's not about me. It's about the lack of other posters that will result. You'll notice quickly how the only thread getting any comments will be this one.

You say that screaming isn't 'For Most of Us'. That's my point, who decides? Your comment implies that some don't agree with you. I guess I'm just one of those old fashioned libertarians (don't worry, I won't get political).

By the way to the poster who asked about my marital status with soccer fan (I believe) .... I'm happily married to a non-poster.

Vman971
08-17-2007, 06:55 PM
Any idea why the thread was locked? Can you take Soccer Fan off our list of Moderators?




Give you an inch and you'll take a mile.

Vman971
08-17-2007, 06:55 PM
Any idea why the thread was locked? Can you take Soccer Fan off our list of Moderators?




Give you an inch and you'll take a mile.

MASoccer
08-17-2007, 07:39 PM
I don't feel like looking it up, but I could've sworn I saw actual Soccer Fan (or maybe another moderator?) commentary on at least one thread (I think it was the one talking about Stars & tryouts) -- I remember it because I thought it was very odd that a moderator was offering opinion on any subject matter of a thread on the forum.

OK, OK, since I have nothing better to do on a Friday night (I know, pathetic!!). I looked up Soccer Fan's postings on the forum. I realize now that I had gotten Soccer Fan and Sundance confused for some reason. Anyway, here is a sampling of some of his/ her posts. BTW, I don't necessarily have a problem with Soccer Fan posting, but I did find the locking of the Elder Imposter thread a bit curious.

In regards to the Revolution auction for player escorts:

You have got to be kidding me
This makes me want to vomit
I remember how excited my daughter was to be part of the escorts for the MLS championship game between the Rev's and the Galaxy a few years back, now only rich kids can do that?
I don't care wether this is for charity or not, it's disgusting


It's a really big deal to the kids doing it and I'm sorry "Daddy poo bought me this is just wrong." I'm not against spending money (and I have the reciept for the "field side" seats at the US-Norway woman's game to prove it!) but the escort duty is something that should make special memories for kids not something to be bought

These were in response to coaches and ethics:


I don't know the coach in question and know nothing about the club other than what I have read on these or the old boards.
Even if it was several players, I'm sorry cutting them publicly is just wrong. I would say that about any club or any sport for that matter.
Heck even in the work world one of the first rules of "firing" someone is you don't humiliate them publicly

Sir Alex,
I have no skin in this game either. The analogy is pretty close because almost all employees in MA are employees at will, they can be fired any time. I still don't see my boss walking up to anyone in front of the whole office and saying "Your out of here". It would be one thing to do it to a group of girls that came for an open tryout, in my mind it's an entirely different matter to do it to a girl that has been playing with that team for a year or more.

If you had the courage to "take care of it" ahead of time that's a different story. From what I have seen posted that is not the case here. He was basically hitting the girls with a lightning bolt. If I'm wrong on that I apologize.

I personally think the way you handled it is exactly the right way. Unfortunately I don't believe a lot of coach's have the guts or class to handle it that way.

I don't care how "distressed" he was if he "did it IN FRONT of the team" he was just wrong. Being cut from a team is extremely traumatic for a kid and I can't believe anyone would condone publicly humiliating them.
Some people have mentioned doing it via email as a bad thing but even that would seem to be to be preferential to a public hanging.
A truly ethical Coach would at least pick up the phone and talk to the player and/or parents. Is it hard? Sure it is but hey if you can't handle the whole job don't coach.

StillLearning- that's a great club. At one point my daughter belonged to a club that claimed they did all those things but in reality they never did. She was cut and the only thing the Coach had ever said to her (or me) was "Good Job"

Last but not least this "group deal" thing has gotten ridiculous. I hear of so many situations where this happens and kids get cut from teams NOT because they are not a better player but because in order to get great player A and B the coach has to take so so player C.
I suppose Coach's will say that they have no choice to remain competitive but the truth is you are being blackmailed .

BTW, You can find a listing of any registered user's posts by just clicking on their name (including my own).

Vman971
08-17-2007, 07:58 PM
I'm sorry. I don't see the problem with what he posted. Educate me.[/quote]

MASoccer
08-17-2007, 08:15 PM
I'm sorry. I don't see the problem with what he posted. Educate me.

I don't see a problem with it either, this was just in response to a previous post by Red99. I believe the argument is that as a Moderator one should remain neutral, and posting in response to different topics shows a bias. Honestly, I don't have a problem with what Soccer Fan has posted and agree with some of his/ her responses. Not that I agree with everything, but that's what this forum is for.

Vman971
08-17-2007, 10:06 PM
I do know Soccer Fan personally and he isn't one of those problem parents you sometimes see on the sidelines. On the contrary, you won't find many more as supportive and positive. We've had many discussions regarding different clubs and I think he has a pretty good idea of what's going on in the club soccer world. I don't have a problem with an Admin or moderator offering their opinions or ideas on topics because it's just another view of something. Unless it leads to a heated confrontation, a moderator's opinion should be as valid as yours or mine. Soccer Fan's child is a club soccer player, why shouldn't he be allowed the same right to post his views? I know he's seen the good and bad of youth soccer just as we have.

FXWLD 24/7
08-17-2007, 10:32 PM
I do know Soccer Fan personally and he isn't one of those problem parents you sometimes see on the sidelines. On the contrary, you won't find many more as supportive and positive. We've had many discussions regarding different clubs and I think he has a pretty good idea of what's going on in the club soccer world. I don't have a problem with an Admin or moderator offering their opinions or ideas on topics because it's just another view of something. Unless it leads to a heated confrontation, a moderator's opinion should be as valid as yours or mine. Soccer Fan's child is a club soccer player, why shouldn't he be allowed the same right to post his views? I know he's seen the good and bad of youth soccer just as we have.

I have no problem with a moderator posting, if anything it gives insight into how he/she will react as a moderator.

Soccer Fan - I think it would be very helpful if you explained your decision. You wrote: "I think this tread has basically become a way to attack other posters and I'm going to close it." It seems odd that you gave no warning/direction. I found a thread that had been shut down on the Florida forum in June. It seemed mild compared to MA. The moderator gave a warning and eventually the topic died, there wasn't even a last post that said: "There's a new sheriff in town and I'm shuttin it down ;) "

With the power to censor a forum comes some accountability to its members (IMO)

JustForFun
08-17-2007, 11:42 PM
It has nothing to do with Soccer Fan personally or his percieved conduct - I have no doubt Soccer Fan is well intentioned. This should be an open Forum with all allowed to participate within the rules. Some are arguing that registering restricts free speech - registering is so painless, free and does not compromise confidentiality, so I do not see that registering diminshes free speech in any significant way. Likewise moderators should be tolerant of free speech principles. Stating "I think this tread has basically become a way to attack other posters" is indicative of either a conflict of interest or limited tolerance. Every thread is "a way to attack other posters" - look at MASoccer getting attacked, Cujo getting attacked, the whole MPS thread is one attack after another, the attacks are not thread specific, but Soccer Fan decided to close the Elder thread. That is odd and raises a Red Flag. I understand that Vman is friends with Soccer Fan, but that does not change the fact that IMHO Soccer Fan's actions should compromise his Moderator's status (good gals/guys make mistakes). Let's not get into an argument if Soccer Fan is a good person, a level headed person or a reasonable person, that is confusing the issue. The issue is simply that we would like to have a Forum to talk about soccer, where the principles of free speech are tolerated, and civility reigns. Soccer Fan has a more limited concept of free speech than most of the regular posters, so we are simply asking that his Moderator status be reviewed. If we have 7 Moderators instead of 8 does that mean we are being harsh and attacking Soccer Fan? Nope. Although we have pointed out Soccer Fan's inappropriateness in closing the thread, has he ever responded like Sundance or Admin? Nope.

Red99
08-18-2007, 09:09 AM
I'm sorry. I don't see the problem with what he posted. Educate me.

I don't see a problem with it either, this was just in response to a previous post by Red99. I believe the argument is that as a Moderator one should remain neutral, and posting in response to different topics shows a bias. Honestly, I don't have a problem with what Soccer Fan has posted and agree with some of his/ her responses. Not that I agree with everything, but that's what this forum is for.

Yes, that was my point. I feel a moderator has a job to do on the board and can't possibly be neutral and shouldn't post. Administrator says: "Moderators - Several of them around the board - They have limited access and basically have limited functions only restricted to edit/locking/reporting and etc. No personal information access to lookup (ie: IP, etc.) or ban people. As they prove to be good, over time they get upgraded to more powers."

I think Soccer Fan's comments sometimes have a pretty biting quality to them, he is definitely opinionated and coupled with the ability to shut down threads (and "get upgraded to more powers"), I disagree with the dual citizenship, if you will. I would feel that way even if it wasn't Soccer Fan and even if I didn't find his comments biting -- I think it ought to apply to all moderators. Guess I'm in the minority on this one, though.

FXWLD 24/7
08-18-2007, 09:26 AM
I'm sorry. I don't see the problem with what he posted. Educate me.

I don't see a problem with it either, this was just in response to a previous post by Red99. I believe the argument is that as a Moderator one should remain neutral, and posting in response to different topics shows a bias. Honestly, I don't have a problem with what Soccer Fan has posted and agree with some of his/ her responses. Not that I agree with everything, but that's what this forum is for.

Yes, that was my point. I feel a moderator has a job to do on the board and can't possibly be neutral and shouldn't post. Administrator says: "Moderators - Several of them around the board - They have limited access and basically have limited functions only restricted to edit/locking/reporting and etc. No personal information access to lookup (ie: IP, etc.) or ban people. As they prove to be good, over time they get upgraded to more powers."

I think Soccer Fan's comments sometimes have a pretty biting quality to them, he is definitely opinionated and coupled with the ability to shut down threads (and "get upgraded to more powers"), I disagree with the dual citizenship, if you will. I would feel that way even if it wasn't Soccer Fan and even if I didn't find his comments biting -- I think it ought to apply to all moderators. Guess I'm in the minority on this one, though.

Red-
You make good points. Following your logic, I'm wondering then if a Moderator should not be allowed to have a "separate" account? For example, what if Soccer Fan had made his posts under another name (or as a guest :shock: ), how would that be any different? Wouldn't the bias just be masked? How do we get around this or do we need to?

Cujo
08-18-2007, 01:00 PM
I'm sorry. I don't see the problem with what he posted. Educate me.

I don't see a problem with it either, this was just in response to a previous post by Red99. I believe the argument is that as a Moderator one should remain neutral, and posting in response to different topics shows a bias. Honestly, I don't have a problem with what Soccer Fan has posted and agree with some of his/ her responses. Not that I agree with everything, but that's what this forum is for.

Yes, that was my point. I feel a moderator has a job to do on the board and can't possibly be neutral and shouldn't post. Administrator says: "Moderators - Several of them around the board - They have limited access and basically have limited functions only restricted to edit/locking/reporting and etc. No personal information access to lookup (ie: IP, etc.) or ban people. As they prove to be good, over time they get upgraded to more powers."

I think Soccer Fan's comments sometimes have a pretty biting quality to them, he is definitely opinionated and coupled with the ability to shut down threads (and "get upgraded to more powers"), I disagree with the dual citizenship, if you will. I would feel that way even if it wasn't Soccer Fan and even if I didn't find his comments biting -- I think it ought to apply to all moderators. Guess I'm in the minority on this one, though.

Red-
You make good points. Following your logic, I'm wondering then if a Moderator should not be allowed to have a "separate" account? For example, what if Soccer Fan had made his posts under another name (or as a guest :shock: ), how would that be any different? Wouldn't the bias just be masked? How do we get around this or do we need to?

I did not feel that the closing of the last thread to be closed was justified. It was a bad decision. If the thought "should I close this" is entertained then don't close it. It really is a black and white thing, or should be.

Soccer Fan
08-18-2007, 03:35 PM
I haven't read this thread in a few days, I guess I should have!
I will be glad to explain why it was closed, before I closed it I deleted a post that was attempting to identify someone with their real name. The person being identified messaged me and asked me to delete that post. Since the thread seemed to be heading in that direction, had nothing to do with soccer and basically existed to try to identify posters I saw no reason to let it continue.
As stated in the rules:
We will NOT tolerate the use of personal names at any time unless the statements is a fact, published from a legitimate source that can be verified. Our decision is final in these matters as well.


As for me posting and moderating, it would be a pretty simple matter to moderate under one name and post under guest or another name. Does anyone really think that would be better? Can anyone please show me where there is any thread or post that I have taken action on where I was disagreeing with someone and took an action because of it? I feel it's far more honest for me to post and moderate under one name. My feeling is this way you know where I stand. If anyone had any questions on why it was locked they could have simply private messaged me, I recieve an email when I am private messaged and would be glad to respond.
All moderators post, if you didn't care enough about a board to have an opinion on the subject matter why in the world would you want to moderate it?
Further more as admin pointed out HE has the final word on any action I take. If you feel any moderator, myself included, has taken any action because of their personal feelings or are being unfair all you have to do is private message him.

Red99
08-18-2007, 04:33 PM
Having zero experience with these boards, I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that "Moderators" were previous Admin appointees. I think of "Moderators" as those folks who - neutrally and without journalistic opinion - moderate political debates, for example. So it just is a surprise to me that one can be a moderator and a contributor both. I'm not judging, just finding this as news to me.

There are some moderators who were members of talking-soccer before all the Touchlines refugees -- it wasn't until I looked just now that I see some came on board with the rest of us, and are, I guess, Mass. based.

I assumed that moderators would be "appointed" by Admin to monitor other states with which they had no connection (FL monitors MA, MA monitors CA, etc.) with the express role of simply maintaining order and being sure all the rules are followed. It doesn't matter if moderators are commenting under their own name or under an assumed name in their own state, I just thought it would make for a more neutral forum if a moderator - with all the duties and obligations that go along with that role - did not post comments on his/her own state threads while acting as moderator OR be given the rights to lock/edit posts in his/her own state, saving those duties for another jurisdiction. Some moderator somewhere is still available in this scenario to be PM'd with requests like the one SFan described.

While it would be nice if moderators would voluntarily do this, I know others don't agree and in any case, I'm sure that scenario is impossible to monitor. Anyway, it is clearer to me now.

Soccer Fan
08-18-2007, 04:34 PM
And just to clear up a few other things:

I am a he

I'm not married to Soccermom

I agree that posters should register

I'm really not that anonymous, I'll post the next tournament I'm going to if anyone wants to buy me a beer :)

If you really want to talk to me private message me I'll give you my AOL IM

JustForFun
08-18-2007, 04:53 PM
It is still unclear why the thread was locked. There are many instances where posts were edited by the Moderator but the thread was not locked. The reason why the whole thread was locked due to one post still remains unanswered and still appears to be an over reaction that is not in the spirit that most registered posters wish the Forum adhered to.

I agree with Red99 - if someone wants to be a Moderator they should step down being a Poster. It is a classic conflict of interest.

Soccer Fan's offer of having PMs and IMs is not relevent to the issue. I have no interest in being "friends" with the Talking-Soccer family. I have my family, my work, my friends and my hobbies. Soccer Fan indicates no introspection that what he did may have been in the desired spirit for the Froum as noted by various posters and seems to justify his decision by indicating that he is not really very anonymous and we can PM him and have a beer with him. No thanks. I am not interested in an "Old Boys Talking-Soccer Network". I am interested in being assured that the Forum rules are being applied evenly and fairly. If the post was "out of line" and was edited that is fine, but shutting down the thread was a personal decision.

Soccer Fan
08-18-2007, 05:04 PM
well justforfun let me try to make it clearer

The purpose of the thread was to attempt to find out the real life identity of certain posters. That is a clear violation of board rules.
In my opinion it was a thread trying to cause a problem and violating several board rules including:

While debating and discussion is fine, we will not tolerate rudeness, insulting posts, personal attacks or purposeless inflammatory posts. Our decision is final in these matters.


In my opinion leaving the thread open would have just encouraged more of the same behavior, yes that was a judgment and I stand by it.
This is Admin's board and he can review my judgment and restore the thread if he feels my judgment was wrong.That is your assurance the rules are being applied evenly and fairly. If you disagree with Admin.. well it's his board.

JustForFun
08-18-2007, 08:26 PM
JustForFun wrote:

Soccer Fan indicates no introspection that what he did may not have been in the desired spirit for the Froum as noted by various posters

Following the questions posed to Soccer Fan by various posters on this Forum, I would have hoped that a self-nominated Moderator would try to understand the concerns of the posters, review the situation, and re-evaluate to make sure that she/he did not make a mistake. Since Soccer Fan's post occured 11 minutes after my post, it appears as though he has not truely considered our concerns with any due diligence, but has simply reacted by defending himself. It is my guess that the same sort of snap reaction is why the Elders' thread was locked over one post within the thread. Such snap reactions with no balanced concern for the overall issues is not constructive. No-one is attacking Soccer Fan, Soccer Fan is probably a very nice person, and there is no need for Soccer Fan to defend himself (or request us to get to know him). The concern is that Soccer Fan's interpretation of the Forum rules is too divergent from the majority of the registered posters. There is no need to state the rules again and again, the issue is the intrepretation and action taken related to the rules. Were the majority of the posters really trying to reveal the identity of other posters? A balanced and thorough review would have indicated NO. We were having fun trying to see if some screen names from the Talking-Soccer Forum could be related or linked to other screen names from the Touchline Forum. If anyone did reveal the actual names of other posters, their post could have been edited and I am sure that poster would have recanted and apologized. We as a community would not advocate such action and accordingly the locking of the thread was inappropriate.

Yes, this is Admin's board and he can review and restore. There is also an alternative gracious response.

FSM
08-18-2007, 08:46 PM
I can't think of any soccer forums that I visit where the Moderator doesn't also post their personal opinions. The reason they moderate a forum is because they are interested in the forum to begin with. It seems this whole issue with Soccer Fan has to do with the shutting down of the Elder thread. I expect this is Soccer Fan's first experience as a moderator and he has learned a lesson from the comments given. Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. It would seem, Soccer Fan, if you would explain your reasoning when taking an action, we'll all be a lot happier in the future.

Cindy Lou
08-19-2007, 11:18 AM
Since it was MAsoccer’s post that was deleted, the simple story is that he posted another posters real name. That outted poster complained and the entire thread was closed. Rather than editing just MAsoccer's offending post, the moderator closed the whole thread because he mistakenly believed the goal for the thread was to seek out the real names of current posters. Since the thread was talking about the linkages between current posters and their old screen names on Touchline, I’d say it was an overreaction by someone new to moderating and easily correctable. Moderators may make mistakes just as posters will do, better that we all work together.

Soccer Fan
08-19-2007, 12:34 PM
Well the truth is I'm a very experienced webmaster and moderator. I'm a webmaster on a board that has over 18 million posts and have been moderating for years. I don't feel I over reacted or made a mistake. The thread did start out trying to connect original user names with the one's here. Read the first 4 or 5 pages and then the change in tone on the last couple of pages.
There is not a single post on the last 3 pages attempting to connect existing user names to the old board. There are plenty of personal attacks and cutting comments.
As I have said if you disagree with my closing of the thread please feel free to message admin. He can open it back up if he feels it was wrong.
In the end the buck stops with him.

Cindy Lou
08-19-2007, 01:20 PM
Well the truth is I'm a very experienced webmaster and moderator. I'm a webmaster on a board that has over 18 million posts and have been moderating for years. I don't feel I over reacted or made a mistake. The thread did start out trying to connect original user names with the one's here. Read the first 4 or 5 pages and then the change in tone on the last couple of pages.
There is not a single post on the last 3 pages attempting to connect existing user names to the old board. There are plenty of personal attacks and cutting comments.
As I have said if you disagree with my closing of the thread please feel free to message admin. He can open it back up if he feels it was wrong.
In the end the buck stops with him.

I disagree with your opinion on the thread, but I'd like to hear what others thought as well. I don't however disagree with you having the right to close any thread. It's the only way these forums can work. What is the other board on which you moderate? 18 million posts, it sounds interesting,

Soccer Fan
08-19-2007, 01:33 PM
Cindy Lou
It is always a matter of judgement and opinion, sometimes people agree, sometimes they don't. There are checks and balances built in. Think of it like being a coach on a team. Do you agree with everything every coach has ever done? In the end though someone has to make a decision.
I think a lot of this is a reaction to where we came from. As we all know the old boards were very tightly regulated, it took me a year to register. I think people are concerned that there's going to be a return to the very tight moderation we saw there. That really isn't the case, if you were to read the board rules and then compare it to the posts being made the rules are being enforced but, I believe, in a pretty liberal manner. I don't see any reason that is going to change.
My other board is not soccer related so I'm not going to "push" it here but feel free to message me and I'll be glad to share.

Cindy Lou
08-19-2007, 10:45 PM
last point many of the guest posts were very good - some were not

I agree. Many were excellent. But I can almost guarantee that you now will only be reading posts from the same 6 - 10 regulars. Despite some of the obnoxious guest posts, good (and new!) information was exchanged. If you didn't like a post, don't read it. This is a blog!!! It is not designed to be a controlled atmospher. I enjoyed the give and take of guests. I'm smart enough to read through the bias. I think you all are, too and are, unfortunately, bringing down a good forum.

Soccermommy, with the Guest feature, it may have been the same 6-10 regulars, plus their alter egos posting all this time. :smt119

I'm kind of split on this, particularly after reading Keeper's comments. Of bigger concern is the locking of threads by the moderator.

FSM:

I was very disappointed in your stance of this issue. Like yourself, Susy and Onthree, whose children are known to a number of posters, who will always use them as a factor when you provide an opinion. Even when past history is completely irrelevant to the subject, it will always be used against you as a way to minimize your value by certain people on this board. If you read the postings carefully, most often the tactic used is to dismiss the poster, skirt the issue and redirect off topic, maybe even with a little humor. It is a common tactic used in the workplace, most often by males as an instrument of control.

Did you not find it odd that the people who talk the most, and listen the least, are the biggest supporters of banning guest postings? Odd as well, that the request for banning “guestsâ€￾ came just after these same posters were on the losing side of some debates with “guestsâ€￾.

Registering is very easy and a single name does help follow conversations. So easy in fact, that you have to wonder why people have posted under as “Guestsâ€￾. Well for some, it’s the same reason that a number of posters have dumped their old names from the last forum. They don’t want people to connect them with their past postings. They want to be free of anything that will tie them to a history. They want to be free to bring up past information about you, while limiting any reference to their own background.

“Guestsâ€￾ have also used their hidden status to instigate and taunt other users, but those are as transparent as can be and therefore very easy to dismiss. Of the twenty five people who use this board, how many do you think are that fixated on MPS or Cujo? I believe that it is the same one or two people. I also believe those people have registered names in addition to their “guestâ€￾ postings. Follow the latest MPS go-a-round. It was a setup that began with a “guestâ€￾ post. Given the number of people that post and the time between posts, it could not have been a random event. It was an orchestrated debate. Without the “guestâ€￾ feature, these same people will just resurface with new alter ego screen names and try the same tactics.

The “Guestâ€￾ feature also allows posters to make statements independent from their own identity. Susy could add to a discussion without everyone knowing that her daughter plays on the team. Her statement would stand or fall on its own merit. On three could make a statement about a high school team without everybody knowing she coaches at LS. There are times when such none attribution is perfectly acceptable. Look at the condescending replies after soccermommy posted.

Other people have used the “Guestâ€￾ feature because they don’t like dealing with the cyber-bullying that a number of other posters use whenever they’re confronted on any issue. The demeaning and ridiculing follow-ups are meant to diminish the value of their opinions and often overshadow the issue itself. The “Guestâ€￾ option provided a way for existing posters to state an opinion without fear of ongoing retaliation and future confrontations. People should not fear to make a comment or venture an opinion because someone will jump on them, but they do.

Still others have used the “guestâ€￾ feature because they just wanted to make a light comment without it being taken as a personal issue. Sometimes just for fun or just too lazy or just too hard to type on a Blackberry.

There are many other forums on this board that are running quite well with the guest feature and from what the Admin stated, “It seems to get more truth from people that wouldn't normally share it when they can be anonymous in their postings.â€￾ It’s a shame that this small group can’t handle or understand that fact. Maybe it’s a Mass liberal thing, talk about freedom, but then demand government control if you don’t like the result.

Without the “guestâ€￾ feature, the best solution will be for people to retire their current names and create new names while limiting the information they provide in the future. Just as MAsoccer or Justforfun have done. I’ve now given up my own old identify, sadly, after two years of posting history. I had given up on touchline and now am giving up on this forum. somethings will never change and the same old crew will just be saying the same old stuff to each other. Enjoy.

It’s was sad to see that only our youngest poster, took a stand based principle and not some momentary short sighted benefit. It’s even worse that most didn’t even understand what she was saying. I always thought wisdom came with age and experience, but we’ve all just been taught different.

Fred Marks
08-20-2007, 06:29 AM
I for one am all for free speech however the Guest posting feature allowed posters to be totally disingenuous. That lowered the level of conversation in many threads to juvenile levels.

Nothing about requiring a poster to choose an anonymous screen name takes away from free speech.

newguest
08-20-2007, 07:11 AM
I for one am all for free speech however the Guest posting feature allowed posters to be totally disingenuous. That lowered the level of conversation in many threads to juvenile levels.

Nothing about requiring a poster to choose an anonymous screen name takes away from free speech.

Look at the postings since the 'Guest' feature has been removed. Almost nothing about soccer. I find it amazing that 'juvenile' is defined by those who often post the most juvenile comments and who often keep the bashing posting going. If you look back at the MPS thread that lead to the removal of Guest, Fred was the one who would never let it die. And whenever he couldn't win an argument (even with named posters like FSM), he would attack them as rude and arrogant.

Cindy Lou's post was right on target. Good for you, Cindy.

It will be nice to see postings regarding soccer issues again.

Rubber Biscuit
08-20-2007, 07:22 AM
Look at the postings since the 'Guest' feature has been removed. Almost nothing about soccer.

True. Great observation.

I thought the forum was to share opinions. But it's more competitive than your average MAPLE game. Much better to win an argument than to have a conversation.

Cindy Lou
08-20-2007, 07:43 AM
I for one am all for free speech however the Guest posting feature allowed posters to be totally disingenuous. That lowered the level of conversation in many threads to juvenile levels.

Nothing about requiring a poster to choose an anonymous screen name takes away from free speech.

Disingenuous?? Juvenile?? Who are we talking about???

Is that as deep as you go on the issue? Your missings so much, but thanks for making my point.

Have a great day!

Admin
08-20-2007, 07:47 AM
OK Folks. Here's the deal. I have watched this topic unfold and received multiple emails and etc. in debating the "guest" feature and I think all of you for your input.

That topic seems to be split 50/50. Since we don't have a clear majority, I am turning back on the feature to allow people to be able to posts as guests. Simply for the fact that I will allow the market to police itself and revert to the same rules as the other States (standard rules of this forum).

We constantly warn the other posters in other states that you need to weight the posters comments. If they are posting as a guest, I put less weight in that being fact than a registered user. Plus, registered users have other perks on the forums as well.

As far as collecting data from the Admin's point of view, it doesn't make any difference to me. I can get the same information from your computer whether you are registered or not. So, no hiding from me :)

Even if you are behind a firewall, router or proxy, I can still identify the specific computer posting and match it up to the users for the most part. So if you abuse the system and the board, you will be dealt with. The only think I don't get would be an email, but in the day of free email accounts, that doesn't mean much anyways.

So, enjoy the forum and let's all get back to Talking Soccer! I for one would like to thank the MA people for being a class act for the most part and doing an excellent job of staying on topic. It's been a pleasure to read the MA forum from time to time and see legit posting instead of the bashing that goes on in other forums.

Admin

Fred Marks
08-20-2007, 07:48 AM
Newguest (who is likely to have been 'Guest' last week writes..

"Cindy Lou's post was right on target. Good for you, Cindy."

This is what Cindy Lou wrote.

"Follow the latest MPS go-a-round. It was a setup that began with a “guestâ€￾ post. Given the number of people that post and the time between posts, it could not have been a random event. It was an orchestrated debate. Without the “guestâ€￾ feature, these same people will just resurface with new alter ego screen names and try the same tactics."

Not letting the facts get in the way... Newguest also wrote (about me) "And whenever he couldn't win an argument (even with named posters like FSM), he would attack them as rude and arrogant"

FSM wrote (about me)... "Unbelievably arrogant and rude." 'Newguest' is using the same tactics as 'Guest'. Perverting posts and attributing comments incorrectly to other posters.

As Cindy Lou predicted the old Guests ''will just resurface with new alter ego screen names and try the same tactics." She was right and it didnt take long.

The benefit of now having 'Guest' post as 'NewGuest' is that his/her act will become old and obvious really fast. Hopefully when 'NewGuest' changes his name to 'NextGuest' or 'Anotherguest' or 'Houseguest' the Admin will notice he/she is using the same IP address.

Fred Marks
08-20-2007, 07:50 AM
"Disingenuous?? Juvenile?? Who are we talking about???"

The Guests of course...

Cindy Lou
08-20-2007, 08:06 AM
OK Folks. Here's the deal. I have watched this topic unfold and received multiple emails and etc. in debating the "guest" feature and I think all of you for your input.

That topic seems to be split 50/50. Since we don't have a clear majority, I am turning back on the feature to allow people to be able to posts as guests. Simply for the fact that I will allow the market to police itself and revert to the same rules as the other States (standard rules of this forum).

We constantly warn the other posters in other states that you need to weight the posters comments. If they are posting as a guest, I put less weight in that being fact than a registered user. Plus, registered users have other perks on the forums as well.

As far as collecting data from the Admin's point of view, it doesn't make any difference to me. I can get the same information from your computer whether you are registered or not. So, no hiding from me :)

Even if you are behind a firewall, router or proxy, I can still identify the specific computer posting and match it up to the users for the most part. So if you abuse the system and the board, you will be dealt with. The only think I don't get would be an email, but in the day of free email accounts, that doesn't mean much anyways.

So, enjoy the forum and let's all get back to Talking Soccer! I for one would like to thank the MA people for being a class act for the most part and doing an excellent job of staying on topic. It's been a pleasure to read the MA forum from time to time and see legit posting instead of the bashing that goes on in other forums.

Admin

Thank-you

On a different subject, how do you maintain the board without support? I don't see any revenue feature, which is great for us, but is there a way for us to help?

Admin
08-20-2007, 08:12 AM
This is also a follow up to the "Elder" thread.

I have no problem with Soccer Fan's decision. The thread started to get out of hand with multiple rules violation and it was locked with the problem posts deleted.

Personally, it's a pain in the butt to edit multiple posts in a thread, so I usually pull the trigger and delete the whole thing. So, Soccer Fan had more patience than me in the fact that it was just locked.

Plus as Soccer Fan mentioned, he/she is not a newbie moderator. I can confirm that he/she moderates a very large board for years in addition to helping out here.

08-20-2007, 01:00 PM
This is also a follow up to the "Elder" thread.

I have no problem with Soccer Fan's decision. The thread started to get out of hand with multiple rules violation and it was locked with the problem posts deleted.

Personally, it's a pain in the butt to edit multiple posts in a thread, so I usually pull the trigger and delete the whole thing. So, Soccer Fan had more patience than me in the fact that it was just locked.

Plus as Soccer Fan mentioned, he/she is not a newbie moderator. I can confirm that he/she moderates a very large board for years in addition to helping out here.

Thanks for the change back to allowing guests. I think soccerfan has done a fine job explaining why he closed the thread and I don't think it matters if we disagree on the reasons, it's the moderators' call and we can all live it. I also believe a moderator should be free to post as any other.

I'm with Cindy Lou on the other matter, how do you keep things running without a way to pay for things. Have we folks from MA missed somthing we should be supporting?

Admin
08-20-2007, 01:23 PM
The fees to host the site have been paid by the owner as a way to give back to the soccer community.

The programming time is donated by myself as a way to give back as well. A few years ago I got tired of watching the site not get updated with security patches and it always crashed when more than 50 people got on. So, that was a daily thing. I volunteered my time to fix it and just stayed around to help out when needed and help moderate.

I also own a computer company so we will be moving the site to a set of servers from my company to help defray the hosting cost for the owner.

But, we are looking into potential revenue streams as well. We just try to keep it clean for the users. We may be adding some google advertising or something like that, so when that happens, "click away" :)

JustForFun
08-20-2007, 03:15 PM
Cindy Lou writes:


It is a common tactic used in the workplace, most often by males as an instrument of control.

There is no sexism in that comment. Wow! Don't link me to that one.

Odd as well, that the request for banning “guestsâ€￾ came just after these same posters were on the losing side of some debates with “guestsâ€￾.

I look at it a little differently - we are not winning and losing but all gaining through our discussion. I think it is unfortunate when life can not be seen in any other terms than winning and losing.

They don’t want people to connect them with their past postings.

Then register with a new screen name - it is very easy as you stated.

They want to be free of anything that will tie them to a history.

Then register with a new screen name - it is very easy as you stated.

They want to be free to bring up past information about you, while limiting any reference to their own background.

Then register with a new screen name - it is very easy as you stated.

Cindy Lou, I look at it differently than you. You are giving all of the reasons why people want to post under Guest. The Forum is not about the Guests or the Elders, it is about the community. Community is a very difficult concept for some to understand because they are so individual oriented. But Forums are not about individual posters, the posters will change from year to year, but the Forum community continues. People register as Guests because they have no concern for the overall flow and informational exchange within the Forum. They simply have one idea that they feel is important so they zing the Forum and damn the effect. Fred is not against Guests, I am not against Guests, but we feel the overall community is more important than Guest zingers. Is this about the Guests' rights or responsibilities to the Forum? You only talk about the Guests' wishes and rights. Possibly you should think about the Guests' responsibilities to the Forum community?

Follow the latest MPS go-a-round.

Exactly my point. Why would I want to spend time following it? Why? The posts were purposely set to instigate with no value added, as you note. So again my point, it is more important for the community to abandon cohesion and continuity and spend their time investigating and following purposefully misleading posts? Can't adults have respect for the Forum community and post accordingly?

Look at the condescending replies after soccermommy posted.

I am looking - I am looking - I am looking. A difference of opinion does not mean someone is condescending, or trying to control a situation.

People should not fear to make a comment or venture an opinion because someone will jump on them, but they do.

I think this is valid. But it is not only that they should not fear, but also they should join. A tough comment is not personal - it is a tough comment. In the end we all love Cujo!

It’s a shame that this small group can’t handle or understand that fact.

LOL. Cindy, you are now contradicting yourself. First you state that people like to use the Guest feature because they are not as brave as the Elders to endure a "demeaning and ridiculing follow-up". But the Elders register because they can endure a "demeaning and ridiculing follow-up" (and should be more compassionate on the less brave). But the Elders can't "handle" the truth posted by Guests? So the Elders can "handle" a "demeaning and ridiculing follow-up", but can't "handle" truthful Guest postings? LOL.

Without the “guestâ€￾ feature, the best solution will be for people to retire their current names and create new names while limiting the information they provide in the future. Just as MAsoccer or Justforfun have done.

I am Onion Bag, 4-4-2, Mr. Stats, Just A Dad, Ilya Gersh, and ???????. Who am I to you?

It’s even worse that most didn’t even understand what she was saying.

I was curious how you know what everyone else understands. You know my old identity and what I understand?

There is a difference of opinion. FSM posted that we should put it behind us and move on - and everyone knows FSM is my personal hero - so I will do as she suggests. The Guest feature has been allowed, so what has changed? What is your point? It is not OK to discuss and disagree? It is not OK to learn through debate and differences? When "demeaning and ridiculing follow-ups" are made it is better to hide and run, than stay and grow? Sorry if our youngest poster has chosen to run - maybe you can have a word with them?

Blue Devil
08-20-2007, 03:37 PM
Look at the condescending replies after soccermommy posted. .

Cindy Lou,

Which posts did you think were condescending?

I reread them and thought they were either supportive or conversational

Cindy Lou
08-20-2007, 04:16 PM
Cindy Lou, I look at it differently than you. You are giving all of the reasons why people want to post under Guest.

That was my goal.:)

I got to say my piece, you got to say your's, and everyone else can decide for themselves. Isn't that what forums are all about?

I know you put a lot of time into your post, but as a rule, I don't give cookies to mice.

Hum this tune with me and you'll feel much better.

We Just Disagree
Dave Mason
# 12 in 1977
Words and Music by Jim Krueger

So let's leave it alone 'cause we can't see eye-to-eye
There ain't no good guys, there ain't no bad guys
There's only you and me and we just disagree

JustForFun
08-20-2007, 04:35 PM
Cindy Lou writes:

I got to say my piece, you got to say your's, and everyone else can decide for themselves. Isn't that what forums are all about?

Nope, but you don't like to discuss things so no reason to go into it.

Squeak, squeak.

08-20-2007, 05:12 PM
People register as Guests because they have no concern for the overall flow and informational exchange within the Forum. They simply have one idea that they feel is important so they zing the Forum and damn the effect.

Looking back over today's posts, many of which are from Guests. Which one's are you talking about?

Cindy told us why she/he (better to trend lightly) thinks people post as Guests, tell us why you think people are posting as Guests.

JustForFun
08-20-2007, 05:57 PM
Guest writes:

Cindy told us why she/he (better to trend lightly) thinks people post as Guests, tell us why you think people are posting as Guests.

There are probably a few hundred reasons. Who can list them all? The point is that every reason is self-centered, not community centered. Think about it as a giant room full of 50 people. Like a presidential debate. You have to listen to each person and then raise your hand and then wait to be called on. Any other way is chaos. A Forum is the same thing. We are all in a room, respecting each other, reading each other's comments (as opposed to listening), and then we can write a response whenever we want because the computer adds them one at a time (not on top of each other like when two people try to answer a question at the same time). If everyone in the Forum respects each other, then everyone should register so we know who is saying what, we can all think about what each other are saying and we can converse back and forth to understand others' views.

The Guest posting adds no security. Registering is harmless, takes three minutes, and in no way discloses who you are. Admin can see your computer either way. A registered poster and a Guest poster are the same except it is much easier to follow the conversation if we know how said what. So if anyone respects the community they will register.

Why don't you register? What is your reason?

MASoccer
08-20-2007, 06:27 PM
The best thing about being a registered user is getting to change your avatar! C'mon, that makes it all worthwhile to me!

08-20-2007, 06:35 PM
Guest writes:

Cindy told us why she/he (better to trend lightly) thinks people post as Guests, tell us why you think people are posting as Guests.

There are probably a few hundred reasons. Who can list them all? The point is that every reason is self-centered, not community centered. Think about it as a giant room full of 50 people. Like a presidential debate. You have to listen to each person and then raise your hand and then wait to be called on. Any other way is chaos. A Forum is the same thing. We are all in a room, respecting each other, reading each other's comments (as opposed to listening), and then we can write a response whenever we want because the computer adds them one at a time (not on top of each other like when two people try to answer a question at the same time). If everyone in the Forum respects each other, then everyone should register so we know who is saying what, we can all think about what each other are saying and we can converse back and forth to understand others' views.

The Guest posting adds no security. Registering is harmless, takes three minutes, and in no way discloses who you are. Admin can see your computer either way. A registered poster and a Guest poster are the same except it is much easier to follow the conversation if we know how said what. So if anyone respects the community they will register.

Why don't you register? What is your reason?

We don't care .... the forums name is Talking-Soccer!!!!!

08-20-2007, 06:39 PM
Why don't you register? What is your reason?

A fair question. Maybe because of comments like the one below:

But please FSM - you jest in thinking that your comments of two years ago have been forgotten and now that your daughter has moved to a different team that is winning, you can modify your position without looking like a hypocrite?

And to be fair, why won't you tell everbody what your old screen name was on Touchine?

Seems we may have more in common than you think.

Soccer Fan
08-20-2007, 06:42 PM
It's pretty typical on any internet forum to have some posters that form cliques, some trollish posters, some people jockeying for position or who always have to be right.
There's always some complaints about how the forum is moderated, either too tough or too easy.
There are always some detective types who feel it is important to figure out who is who
What I have noticed both here and on the old forums is that there is a LOT of that going on.
Someone commented earlier it seems to overshadow the soccer posting

JustForFun
08-20-2007, 07:30 PM
I would like to respond to the Guests questions, but it is hard to know who I am talking to. Which Guest is which Guest? It does not take long for me to respond - I type quickly. Cindy said I put a lot of time into my post - it took less than 5 minutes, so I do not mind responding. I enjoy being able to do what I want, take a 5 minute break to respond, and then go back to what I was doing. As a Guest when you respond there is a box on the reply page that says "Username". If you put in a name other than Guest, like Guest1 or Guestwho, then I will know who is talking and I will respond. You do not have to register, just fill in the Username block with the same Username each time and then I will answer any of your questions. Thanks, JFF

08-20-2007, 10:53 PM
It seemed very easy to follow, but I put it all below on a single page. I think that I’ve responded to you promptly and politely. I’ve answered your question directly and to the point, and have asked you some simple questions that you seem to always avoid answering. Now, you add preconditions before continuing a conversation that you yourself initiated by asking me a question. I can take the hint, you don’t want to have a conversation, and you only want to lecture to me without ever listening to what I have to say.

Being a Guest really helps out here; I can move on and forget I wasted my time.

People register as Guests because they have no concern for the overall flow and informational exchange within the Forum. They simply have one idea that they feel is important so they zing the Forum and damn the effect.

Looking back over today's posts, many of which are from Guests, which ones are you talking about?

Cindy told us why she/he (better to trend lightly) thinks people post as Guests, tell us why you think people are posting as Guests.

There are probably a few hundred reasons. Who can list them all? The point is that every reason is self-centered, not community centered. Think about it as a giant room full of 50 people. Like a presidential debate. You have to listen to each person and then raise your hand and then wait to be called on. Any other way is chaos. A Forum is the same thing. We are all in a room, respecting each other, reading each other's comments (as opposed to listening), and then we can write a response whenever we want because the computer adds them one at a time (not on top of each other like when two people try to answer a question at the same time). If everyone in the Forum respects each other, then everyone should register so we know who is saying what, we can all think about what each other are saying and we can converse back and forth to understand others' views.

The Guest posting adds no security. Registering is harmless, takes three minutes, and in no way discloses who you are. Admin can see your computer either way. A registered poster and a Guest poster are the same except it is much easier to follow the conversation if we know how said what. So if anyone respects the community they will register.

Why don't you register? What is your reason?


A fair question; maybe because of comments like the one below:

But please FSM - you jest in thinking that your comments of two years ago have been forgotten and now that your daughter has moved to a different team that is winning, you can modify your position without looking like a hypocrite?
And to be fair, why won't you tell everybody what your old screen name was on Touchline?

Seems we may have more in common than you think.
I would like to respond to the Guests questions, but it is hard to know who I am talking to. Which Guest is which Guest? It does not take long for me to respond - I type quickly. Cindy said I put a lot of time into my post - it took less than 5 minutes, so I do not mind responding. I enjoy being able to do what I want, take a 5 minute break to respond, and then go back to what I was doing. As a Guest when you respond there is a box on the reply page that says "Username". If you put in a name other than Guest, like Guest1 or Guest who, then I will know who is talking and I will respond. You do not have to register, just fill in the Username block with the same Username each time and then I will answer any of your questions. Thanks, JFF.

JustForFun
08-21-2007, 11:17 AM
Guest writes:

I’ve answered your question directly and to the point, and have asked you some simple questions that you seem to always avoid answering. Now, you add preconditions before continuing a conversation that you yourself initiated by asking me a question. I can take the hint, you don’t want to have a conversation, and you only want to lecture to me without ever listening to what I have to say.

Wow - sorry Guest. No disrespect intended - I try to respect everyone in the community. Thanks for putting everything on one page - I am a very simple person, born and raised in a very rural community (that is why Cujo loves me), and have a hard time connecting various issues as I get older, but I can type fast and a Forum keeps most everything in order for me, so I enjoy the community.

I thought it was various Guests responding - I had no idea it was the same Guest repeated. Sorry about that. I do not think your questions are as fair as you suggest, like the old question "How often do you beat your spouse?". Some think it is a fair question, I do not. MASoccer and I have both stated that we were previously lurkers, and decided to register when the board switched over to Talking-Soccer. I have no idea why that event made me switch. I do not think we have more in common than I think - I would never disrespect the community by adding unregistered Guest hit and run comments. You may have not added Guest hit and run comments either, but how do we know? You group yourself with the other Guests, so it is not clear. You really should hang around with some new friends!!!!

You wrote:

Looking back over today's posts, many of which are from Guests. Which one's are you talking about?

I do not have the time to research (but I can type fast) - I thought it was generally accepted that the Guest hit and run comments were more common than from registered users. That is my impression that seems to have been shared by the other registered users that weighed in on this thread.

You wrote:

JustForFun wrote:
But please FSM - you jest in thinking that your comments of two years ago have been forgotten and now that your daughter has moved to a different team that is winning, you can modify your position without looking like a hypocrite?

I am not sure what you are asking with my quote to FSM. Are you saying that a comment like that would scare you, or if you were registered than people could track your comments? That is why I did not answer - the question is vague. Can you clarify?

You wrote:

Cindy told us why she/he (better to trend lightly) thinks people post as Guests, tell us why you think people are posting as Guests.

I am at a loss to answer this question. I have stated repeatedly that I am at a complete loss why people post as Guests. The only reason that I can think of is a deviation of one of Cindy's comments, it is because the Guest posters are older and not computer saavy so they do not really understand registering and think somehow it will expose them. There was a study in MA about why more people do not use FastLane on the MassPike. I do not understand why poeple do not use FastLane, so I was interested. The most dominant reason that people have not signed up for FastLane is becuase they do not want the government to track them. There is not a chance in hell I would have ever figured that out. So why do you ask Cindy and I (registered posters) why you (a Guest) will not register? Shouldn't the Guests be explaining to the registered users why they do not register? Isn't this conversation back to front?

I wrote:

Why don't you register? What is your reason?

You never answered. But you asked me why you do not register???????

Cujo
08-21-2007, 11:21 AM
Guest writes:

[quote]I’ve answered your question directly and to the point, and have asked you some simple questions that you seem to always avoid answering. Now, you add preconditions before continuing a conversation that you yourself initiated by asking me a question. I can take the hint, you don’t want to have a conversation, and you only want to lecture to me without ever listening to what I have to say.

Wow - sorry Guest. No disrespect intended - I try to respect everyone in the community. Thanks for putting everything on one page - I am a very simple person, born and raised in a very rural community (that is why Cujo loves me), and have a hard time connecting various issues as I get older, but I can type fast and a Forum keeps most everything in order for me, so I enjoy the community.

I thought it was various Guests responding - I had no idea it was the same Guest repeated. Sorry about that. I do not think your questions are as fair as you suggest, like the old question "How often do you beat your spouse?". Some think it is a fair question, I do not. MASoccer and I have both stated that we were previously lurkers, and decided to register when the board switched over to Talking-Soccer. I have no idea why that event made me switch. I do not think we have more in common than I think - I would never disrespect the community by adding unregistered Guest hit and run comments. You may have not added Guest hit and run comments either, but how do we know? You group yourself with the other Guests, so it is not clear. You really should hang around with some new friends!!!!

You wrote:

Looking back over today's posts, many of which are from Guests. Which one's are you talking about?

I do not have the time to research (but I can type fast) - I thought it was generally accepted that the Guest hit and run comments were more common than from registered users. That is my impression that seems to have been shared by the other registered users that weighed in on this thread.

You wrote:

JustForFun wrote:
But please FSM - you jest in thinking that your comments of two years ago have been forgotten and now that your daughter has moved to a different team that is winning, you can modify your position without looking like a hypocrite?

I am not sure what you are asking with my quote to FSM. Are you saying that a comment like that would scare you, or if you were registered than people could track your comments? That is why I did not answer - the question is vague. Can you clarify?

You wrote:

Cindy told us why she/he (better to trend lightly) thinks people post as Guests, tell us why you think people are posting as Guests.

I am at a loss to answer this question. I have stated repeatedly that I am at a complete loss why people post as Guests. The only reason that I can think of is a deviation of one of Cindy's comments, it is because the Guest posters are older and not computer saavy so they do not really understand registering and think somehow it will expose them. There was a study in MA about why more people do not use FastLane on the MassPike. I do not understand why poeple do not use FastLane, so I was interested. The most dominant reason that people have not signed up for FastLane is becuase they do not want the government to track them. There is not a chance in hell I would have ever figured that out. So why do you ask Cindy and I (registered posters) why you (a Guest) will not register? Shouldn't the Guests be explaining to the registered users why they do not register? Isn't this conversation back to front?

I wrote:

Why don't you register? What is your reason?

You never answered. But you asked me why you do not register???????[/quote:240fhxjc]

Some folks really need to toughen up. Put your milkbone underwear on!!!!!!!!!!!!! I get the $#@& kicked out of me routinely and you don't see me runnin' to my momma for snuggles and warm milk. Jeez.........

JustForFun
08-21-2007, 11:30 AM
I love Cujo!!!!!

I love Cujo!!!!!

I love Cujo!!!!!

:smt008 :smt008 :smt008 :smt008 :smt008 :smt008 :smt008

JustForFun
08-21-2007, 11:41 AM
Guest wrote:

We don't care .... the forums name is Talking-Soccer!!!!!

We know you do not care, but we do and we would for ask a measure of respect and civility.

The name is Talking-Soccer, not Yelling-Soccer. You clearly completely do not understand the analogy. You might read and understand the whole thread before responding.

Cujo
08-21-2007, 11:59 AM
I love Cujo!!!!!

I love Cujo!!!!!

I love Cujo!!!!!

:smt008 :smt008 :smt008 :smt008 :smt008 :smt008 :smt008

Though I am dreading the day I get pulled over in Braintree and Fred Marks takes note of the CUJO license plate on my car.......... "You in heap o' trouble boy........."

Fred Marks
08-21-2007, 04:26 PM
Your license plate says 'Cujo'?

I dont even know your name. Pat Marino told me you were a good guy. You care enough about soccer to post in here. That makes you OK with me!

08-21-2007, 06:53 PM
It's the old NH Primary two step, but since you've made my point so well, I just wanted to say thanks.

Guest writes:

[quote]I’ve answered your question directly and to the point, and have asked you some simple questions that you seem to always avoid answering. Now, you add preconditions before continuing a conversation that you yourself initiated by asking me a question. I can take the hint, you don’t want to have a conversation, and you only want to lecture to me without ever listening to what I have to say.

Wow - sorry Guest. No disrespect intended - I try to respect everyone in the community. Thanks for putting everything on one page - I am a very simple person, born and raised in a very rural community (that is why Cujo loves me), and have a hard time connecting various issues as I get older, but I can type fast and a Forum keeps most everything in order for me, so I enjoy the community.

I thought it was various Guests responding - I had no idea it was the same Guest repeated. Sorry about that. I do not think your questions are as fair as you suggest, like the old question "How often do you beat your spouse?". Some think it is a fair question, I do not. MASoccer and I have both stated that we were previously lurkers, and decided to register when the board switched over to Talking-Soccer. I have no idea why that event made me switch. I do not think we have more in common than I think - I would never disrespect the community by adding unregistered Guest hit and run comments. You may have not added Guest hit and run comments either, but how do we know? You group yourself with the other Guests, so it is not clear. You really should hang around with some new friends!!!!

You wrote:

Looking back over today's posts, many of which are from Guests. Which one's are you talking about?

I do not have the time to research (but I can type fast) - I thought it was generally accepted that the Guest hit and run comments were more common than from registered users. That is my impression that seems to have been shared by the other registered users that weighed in on this thread.

You wrote:

JustForFun wrote:
But please FSM - you jest in thinking that your comments of two years ago have been forgotten and now that your daughter has moved to a different team that is winning, you can modify your position without looking like a hypocrite?

I am not sure what you are asking with my quote to FSM. Are you saying that a comment like that would scare you, or if you were registered than people could track your comments? That is why I did not answer - the question is vague. Can you clarify?

You wrote:

Cindy told us why she/he (better to trend lightly) thinks people post as Guests, tell us why you think people are posting as Guests.

I am at a loss to answer this question. I have stated repeatedly that I am at a complete loss why people post as Guests. The only reason that I can think of is a deviation of one of Cindy's comments, it is because the Guest posters are older and not computer saavy so they do not really understand registering and think somehow it will expose them. There was a study in MA about why more people do not use FastLane on the MassPike. I do not understand why poeple do not use FastLane, so I was interested. The most dominant reason that people have not signed up for FastLane is becuase they do not want the government to track them. There is not a chance in hell I would have ever figured that out. So why do you ask Cindy and I (registered posters) why you (a Guest) will not register? Shouldn't the Guests be explaining to the registered users why they do not register? Isn't this conversation back to front?

I wrote:

Why don't you register? What is your reason?

You never answered. But you asked me why you do not register???????[/quote:39jq73rl]

JustForFun
08-21-2007, 07:48 PM
Guest writes:

It's the old NH Primary two step, but since you've made my point so well, I just wanted to say thanks.

Glad to hear I still 'go it'!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for the indepth, meaningful discussion.

Cindy Lou
08-21-2007, 08:04 PM
Guest writes:

It's the old NH Primary two step, but since you've made my point so well, I just wanted to say thanks.

Glad to hear I still 'go it'!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for the indepth, meaningful discussion.

Such a sad little mouse, always beggin' for cookies.

JustForFun
08-21-2007, 08:16 PM
I love cookies. Oatmeal raisin are my favorite. What is better than an oatmeal raisin cookie after a pizza from the Spot?

08-22-2007, 07:05 AM
I love cookies. Oatmeal raisin are my favorite. What is better than an oatmeal raisin cookie after a pizza from the Spot?

canoli

Cujo
08-22-2007, 07:48 AM
Your license plate says 'Cujo'?

I dont even know your name. Pat Marino told me you were a good guy. You care enough about soccer to post in here. That makes you OK with me!

Pat is a good guy - our U18 teams played each other a few years back and the girls had a lot of fun. Just kidding about the Cujo plate. Someone else had it the last time I checked in NH and I may have to go to COWJO instead or something else.

Cujo
08-22-2007, 07:56 AM
I love cookies. Oatmeal raisin are my favorite. What is better than an oatmeal raisin cookie after a pizza from the Spot?

canoli

canoli and an espresso

10-12-2007, 08:25 AM
GotSoccer Forums Closed:

It was a sad decision, but today I shut down the GotSoccer forums. Started 11 years ago when the Internet was in its infancy and when there were less then 35 youth soccer sites on the web, the forums played an invaluable role in transporting soccer from a regional to a national sport. But they've long outlived their usefulness and the recent spate of distasteful posts on the Armchair Striker went far beyond the pale. The closure of the forums will allow us to concentrate on what we do best - rank teams and provide the best software available for the youth soccer market.

FSM
10-12-2007, 08:34 AM
What a great loss. ;)

10-12-2007, 08:41 AM
What a great loss. ;)

I didn't even know they had forums.......

Rankings are what they do best? Like it's difficult to assign points for a tournament win.

10-12-2007, 08:46 AM
What a great loss.

Hey, you made GOD status!

Well when I first found this forum there was generally alot of good information. Some of the posts have become more "gotsoccer" like lately which I find bothersome.

I know I am posting as a Guest...... and I am sure someone will tell me that this is the internet and ......

Cujo
10-12-2007, 10:02 AM
What a great loss. ;)

Who wants to pay money to get flamed and called trailer trash. The sun rose today.........

10-12-2007, 10:09 AM
got soccer was big for Maryland and lots of WAGS stuff, not so much for other states maybe the MD folks will flock to this site in the same way Mass posters jumped post MAPLE Board?

FSM
10-12-2007, 11:25 AM
What a great loss. ;)

I didn't even know they had forums.......

Rankings are what they do best? Like it's difficult to assign points for a tournament win.

They don't even do the rankings well. A lot of times they have been months behind in updating. Of course, I rarely check rankings, particularly since we have Mathman. ;)

What a great loss.

Hey, you made GOD status!



I did??? Cool. I feel so special now. :D Actually it should be Goddess, now that I think about it. What's the next level I can achieve? Are there any benefits? Dinner out? Free tickets?

10-12-2007, 11:39 AM
I did??? Cool. I feel so special now. :D Actually it should be Goddess, now that I think about it. What's the next level I can achieve? Are there any benefits? Dinner out? Free tickets?

You and Cujo get the first dance and get to wear crowns at the next party. Which btw, as our new gods, you get to host. The first weekend in Nov is good for me. :P And, I'll have the chicken. :)

Cujo
10-16-2007, 11:35 AM
I did??? Cool. I feel so special now. :D Actually it should be Goddess, now that I think about it. What's the next level I can achieve? Are there any benefits? Dinner out? Free tickets?

You and Cujo get the first dance and get to wear crowns at the next party. Which btw, as our new gods, you get to host. The first weekend in Nov is good for me. :P And, I'll have the chicken. :)

58% say buh-bye!!!!!!!!!!!

The verdict is in. Time for Sundance to take action and send the trolls packing..........

10-16-2007, 11:52 AM
I did??? Cool. I feel so special now. :D Actually it should be Goddess, now that I think about it. What's the next level I can achieve? Are there any benefits? Dinner out? Free tickets?

You and Cujo get the first dance and get to wear crowns at the next party. Which btw, as our new gods, you get to host. The first weekend in Nov is good for me. :P And, I'll have the chicken. :)

58% say buh-bye!!!!!!!!!!!

The verdict is in. Time for Sundance to take action and send the trolls packing..........

OK. You first.

10-16-2007, 12:00 PM
OK. You first.

Guest, you beat me to the punch! :)

10-16-2007, 12:21 PM
58% say buh-bye!!!!!!!!!!!

The verdict is in. Time for Sundance to take action and send the trolls packing..........

:lol: You're such a tool. I wish there was a way to filter so we wouldnt have to read more about your self centered exploits, Forrest. That would be good

Cujo
10-16-2007, 12:37 PM
58% say buh-bye!!!!!!!!!!!

The verdict is in. Time for Sundance to take action and send the trolls packing..........

:lol: You're such a tool. I wish there was a way to filter so we wouldnt have to read more about your self centered exploits, Forrest. That would be good

Tool? You are insulting the Makita and Stanley and Black and Decker employees. How insenstivie. Your post should be banned.

10-16-2007, 12:43 PM
Tool? You are insulting the Makita and Stanley and Black and Decker employees. How insenstivie. Your post should be banned.

Read my lips - Satire and Parody are protected speech. Go find some other place to be offended. You are coming across as a whiny little baby. Toughen up and put the milkbone underwear on dude!


Just remember that you were the first to start crying over a post. cancer.

Cujo
10-16-2007, 01:09 PM
Tool? You are insulting the Makita and Stanley and Black and Decker employees. How insenstivie. Your post should be banned.

Read my lips - Satire and Parody are protected speech. Go find some other place to be offended. You are coming across as a whiny little baby. Toughen up and put the milkbone underwear on dude!


Just remember that you were the first to start crying over a post. cancer.

Asking that the trolls be registered is not the same as banning. It is terribly confusing to all the regulars in here to know who is saying what. What seems like criticism coming from 10 different quarters is basically the work of a few people trying to shout down anyone they don't agree with. I believe that using the word cancer is inappropriate in this context. Eliminating a post is different from banning a poster. I am discourage that I have to point out these not-too-subtle distinctions. It makes me think that I am debating with a 15 year old.

10-16-2007, 01:15 PM
I believe that using the word cancer is inappropriate in this context.

But what you said in the other thread is ok huh? You wrote something so shameful and bigoted and you still don't care and fail to see it. You are a disgraceful human being, if you can even be called that.

Cujo
10-16-2007, 01:19 PM
I believe that using the word cancer is inappropriate in this context.

But what you said in the other thread is ok huh? You wrote something so shameful and bigoted and you still don't care and fail to see it. You are a disgraceful human being, if you can even be called that.

Oh will you just please SHUT UP!!!!!!!!! I was criticizing the Guest posters characterization of all NBA players as being criminals. If you are STUPID enough to think that I was saying that all blacks are criminals then you are just a 100% COMPLETE AND UTTER IDIOT. You are just plain hopeless. I was making fun of a racist post. By the very definition that CANNOT be racist. Please tell me that you are really not this stupid.

10-16-2007, 01:23 PM
Oh will you just please SHUT UP!!!!!!!!! I was criticizing the Guest posters characterization of all NBA players as being criminals. If you are STUPID enough to think that I was saying that all blacks are criminals then you are just a 100% COMPLETE AND UTTER IDIOT. You are just plain hopeless. I was making fun of a racist post. By the very definition that CANNOT be racist. Please tell me that you are really not this stupid.

:lol:

No, Forrest, I wont shut up. Must drive you nuts that I can keep doing this and doing this.

Heres a book I saw that you should read:

http://www.kevininscoe.com/pub/stop_whining_and_get_a_life.jpg

Cujo
10-16-2007, 01:27 PM
Oh will you just please SHUT UP!!!!!!!!! I was criticizing the Guest posters characterization of all NBA players as being criminals. If you are STUPID enough to think that I was saying that all blacks are criminals then you are just a 100% COMPLETE AND UTTER IDIOT. You are just plain hopeless. I was making fun of a racist post. By the very definition that CANNOT be racist. Please tell me that you are really not this stupid.

:lol:

No, Forrest, I wont shut up. Must drive you nuts that I can keep doing this and doing this.

Heres a book I saw that you should read:

http://www.kevininscoe.com/pub/stop_whining_and_get_a_life.jpg

yeah I gotta admit that you are getting on my nerves. How does it feel to be the forum equivalent of jock itch. Put that on your resume. Does your job require you to have both first and last name on your name tag or just first. Your fingers must be sore from punching the pictures of hamburgers on the MickeyD's cash register.

10-16-2007, 01:32 PM
yeah I gotta admit that you are getting on my nerves. How does it feel to be the forum equivalent of jock itch. Put that on your resume. Does your job require you to have both first and last name on your name tag or just first. Your fingers must be sore from punching the pictures of hamburgers on the MickeyD's cash register.

I just completed 3 cancer projects worth $80.2 million and I hit the winning home run this weekend after making 2 eagles and a hole in one. I also remodeled my garage so I have been busy.

Cujo
10-16-2007, 01:38 PM
yeah I gotta admit that you are getting on my nerves. How does it feel to be the forum equivalent of jock itch. Put that on your resume. Does your job require you to have both first and last name on your name tag or just first. Your fingers must be sore from punching the pictures of hamburgers on the MickeyD's cash register.

I just completed 3 cancer projects worth $80.2 million and I hit the winning home run this weekend after making 2 eagles and a hole in one. I also remodeled my garage so I have been busy.

You are fitting the profile of a cyber stalker. Are you housebound or something or are you typing with a pencil attached to your forehead? Next thing I know you will be telling me what time I left my house in the morning and what color underwear I have on.

10-16-2007, 01:43 PM
You are fitting the profile of a cyber stalker. Are you housebound or something or are you typing with a pencil attached to your forehead? Next thing I know you will be telling me what time I left my house in the morning and what color underwear I have on.

No Dad, I am doing my homework. Dont worry, I think I can hide the belt marks.

10-16-2007, 02:48 PM
I was criticizing the Guest posters characterization of all NBA players as being criminals.[/quote]

No one said that.

If you are STUPID enough to think that I was saying that all blacks are criminals then you are just a 100% COMPLETE AND UTTER IDIOT. You are just plain hopeless. I was making fun of a racist post. By the very definition that CANNOT be racist. Please tell me that you are really not this stupid.

You turned comments about the NBA as a league into an issue about race. That, by defiinition is racist

Cujo
10-16-2007, 03:05 PM
I was criticizing the Guest posters characterization of all NBA players as being criminals.

No one said that.

If you are STUPID enough to think that I was saying that all blacks are criminals then you are just a 100% COMPLETE AND UTTER IDIOT. You are just plain hopeless. I was making fun of a racist post. By the very definition that CANNOT be racist. Please tell me that you are really not this stupid.

You turned comments about the NBA as a league into an issue about race. That, by defiinition is racist[/quote]

yes they did and it was a stereotype bias within a post.......

It was just random that they picked the league with the highest % of blacks. Did they deliberately choose to not use the NHL as an example which is 98% white. They could have pointed out the player that put out a contract on his agent or John Kordic who went nuts on steroids and coke. Or any number of WHITE hockey players. Funny how they chose the league with the most blacks to make a reference about crime. Sorry sonnyboy but that is racism in my book. let's run this past Al Sharpton and see what he thinks....

10-16-2007, 03:26 PM
I was criticizing the Guest posters characterization of all NBA players as being criminals.

No one said that.

If you are STUPID enough to think that I was saying that all blacks are criminals then you are just a 100% COMPLETE AND UTTER IDIOT. You are just plain hopeless. I was making fun of a racist post. By the very definition that CANNOT be racist. Please tell me that you are really not this stupid.

You turned comments about the NBA as a league into an issue about race. That, by defiinition is racist

yes they did and it was a stereotype bias within a post.......

It was just random that they picked the league with the highest % of blacks. Did they deliberately choose to not use the NHL as an example which is 98% white. They could have pointed out the player that put out a contract on his agent or John Kordic who went nuts on steroids and coke. Or any number of WHITE hockey players. Funny how they chose the league with the most blacks to make a reference about crime. Sorry sonnyboy but that is racism in my book. let's run this past Al Sharpton and see what he thinks....[/quote]
In your own words....errr, read much ?
Re-read the posting brainiac. The reference to the NBA was in regards to the percentage of players with criminal records ( not black or white players) . It just points out that another sport really has bigger problems than "mouthy spoiled brats" in women's soccer. You turned it into a race thing. I originally thought 40% was high, so I googled it. Turns out, that happens to be what some studies sho. I don't think the point of the reference had anything to do with race, just the reality of the different problems that face big league sports.

10-16-2007, 03:45 PM
I was criticizing the Guest posters characterization of all NBA players as being criminals.

No one said that.

If you are STUPID enough to think that I was saying that all blacks are criminals then you are just a 100% COMPLETE AND UTTER IDIOT. You are just plain hopeless. I was making fun of a racist post. By the very definition that CANNOT be racist. Please tell me that you are really not this stupid.

You turned comments about the NBA as a league into an issue about race. That, by defiinition is racist

yes they did and it was a stereotype bias within a post.......

It was just random that they picked the league with the highest % of blacks. Did they deliberately choose to not use the NHL as an example which is 98% white. They could have pointed out the player that put out a contract on his agent or John Kordic who went nuts on steroids and coke. Or any number of WHITE hockey players. Funny how they chose the league with the most blacks to make a reference about crime. Sorry sonnyboy but that is racism in my book. let's run this past Al Sharpton and see what he thinks....
In your own words....errr, read much ?
Re-read the posting brainiac. The reference to the NBA was in regards to the percentage of players with criminal records ( not black or white players) . It just points out that another sport really has bigger problems than "mouthy spoiled brats" in women's soccer. You turned it into a race thing. I originally thought 40% was high, so I googled it. Turns out, that happens to be what some studies sho. I don't think the point of the reference had anything to do with race, just the reality of the different problems that face big league sports.[/quote]

Because Cujo is a clear racist. Anyone who feels the need to talk about his daughter's black friends to differentiate them from her non-black friends is. It may be benign but it's still racist.

10-16-2007, 05:09 PM
The reference to the NBA was in regards to the percentage of players with criminal records ( not black or white players) .



Because Cujo is a clear racist. Anyone who feels the need to talk about his daughter's black friends to differentiate them from her non-black friends is. It may be benign but it's still racist.

Well said!!!

10-16-2007, 05:29 PM
The reference to the NBA was in regards to the percentage of players with criminal records ( not black or white players) .



Because Cujo is a clear racist. Anyone who feels the need to talk about his daughter's black friends to differentiate them from her non-black friends is. It may be benign but it's still racist.

Well said!!!

And Cujo will probably come back telling about all of the great things he's done for black kids. How he loves Soul food, etc. Some of his best friends are .... Again, racist!

10-16-2007, 09:33 PM
You all need to get a life! Read a good book lately.....losers!

Soccer Fan
10-16-2007, 10:56 PM
Ok enough already, this thread is turning into nothing but personal attacks and is about to get locked if it doesn't stop

10-17-2007, 09:13 AM
Most of the threads in this forum seem to degenerate to personal attacks.

10-17-2007, 09:46 AM
There is one common denominator to all threads that turn into personal attacks. Rightfully or wrongfully, this common denominator's participation in a thread causes it to go off track. Everyone else can't be wrong all the time!

Dad&Driver
10-17-2007, 10:51 AM
You are correct.

Every thread that goes off track has a bunch of "guest" postings which add nothing to the conversation but attempt to piss off other posters.