Formations

Last year I think I recognized three formations used in U13: 4-4-2 with a sweeper, 3-5-2, and 4-3-3. I’m sure there were other formations used that I didn’t recognize. (It’s hard to tell from the sidelines.)

I’m curious: does anyone have an opinion on which formations are most commonly used at this age level? Or, on which formations should be used? Why do coaches choose the formations they do?

Also, how much difference do formations make? If two teams are evenly matched, could the choice of formation make the difference between winning and losing? Do coaches ever switch formations at halftime, or for a rematch?

Finally, do boys and girls teams at U13-U14 generally use the same formations?

(Everything I know about formations, I learned from wikipedia. ;))

A lot of teams even at earlier ages (say U14's) are going to the flat back 4. It takes time and you will have a learning curve. Most colleges use it, so it is worth while to get used to it. I believe the Scorporions made it a requirement around a year ago but I could be wrong.

All Stars teams play a flat back 4 execpt for the u13's rising u14's. No stopper sweeper at that club.

[Cujo]

All Stars teams play a flat back 4 execpt for the u13's rising u14's. No stopper sweeper at that club.

That is a good age to implement it. Players need to have some tactical mastery and lots of technical mastery to be able to give enough thought to maintaining the flat back 4 shape. Coaches also need to be visual when describing as being verbal is either confusing or misleading.

On the other point I think 4-4-2 is probably the dominant formation from what I have seen, with 4-3-3 and 3-5-2 in 2nd. With my older players HS or U17/18 I might use three different formations in a game on occassion depending on what the other team is presenting and/or what the score is. In a 2-0 game I might even switch to a single forward with 9 mids and D.

A lot of teams even at earlier ages (say U14's) are going to the flat back 4. It takes time and you will have a learning curve. Most colleges use it, so it is worth while to get used to it. I believe the Scorporions made it a requirement around a year ago but I could be wrong.

So those teams presumably spend more time practicing defense than other teams do, at least at the beginning. I wonder how they train--is there a lot of shadow play involved? And do defenders generally have to be faster in this system, without a sweeper to back them up?

[Cujo]

A lot of teams even at earlier ages (say U14's) are going to the flat back 4. It takes time and you will have a learning curve. Most colleges use it, so it is worth while to get used to it. I believe the Scorporions made it a requirement around a year ago but I could be wrong.

So those teams presumably spend more time practicing defense than other teams do, at least at the beginning. I wonder how they train--is there a lot of shadow play involved? And do defenders generally have to be faster in this system, without a sweeper to back them up?

I think speed and quickness are essential on D no matter what system that you play. Having slow lumbering strong footed defenders is a weakness that well balanced teams will exploit in a heartbeat. Several of my HS opponents would always put these type of players on outside defense and it is one of the easiest trends to exploit when attacking.

In a 2-0 game I might even switch to a single forward with 9 mids and D.

You mean like a 4-5-1, like England has used in World Cup? Is that thought of primarily as a defensive formation?

[Cujo]

In a 2-0 game I might even switch to a single forward with 9 mids and D.

You mean like a 4-5-1, like England has used in World Cup? Is that thought of primarily as a defensive formation?

yes - I meant with a 2-0 lead, down 2-0 with 10 minutes to go you gotta put lots of bodies in the risk zone.

I particularly like the oft-used in MAPLE 8-1-1

In a 2-0 game I might even switch to a single forward with 9 mids and D.

You mean like a 4-5-1, like England has used in World Cup? Is that thought of primarily as a defensive formation?

yes - I meant with a 2-0 lead, down 2-0 with 10 minutes to go you gotta put lots of bodies in the risk zone.

In one HS game, I saw Winchester protect a one-goal lead late in the game with what looked like a flat-back five or even six--I lost count. The field was also lined for football, and the defenders were aligned on a certain yard line, I forget which. The other team had a lot of trouble getting through balls through.

There are also variations within the numbers. For example, a 4-4-2 can be VERY different from a 4-4-2 depending on whether your defense or mid fielders (or both) play flat or diamond. Similarly I think you will find almost no differences in application between a 3-5-2 and a 4-4-2 (sweeper/stopper) if the coach requires the central defender to play behind the outside defenders -which at younger ages tends to happen naturally. The main difference is that a stopper is generally man to man on a striker whereas a sitting center mid will be playing zonal defense - almost like a rover back - in front of the defensive line. It is interesting that a couple of the people who had commented on other threads about the Stars now U-15s formation found it impossible to determine beyond 3 or 4 backs what they were doing. Having watched them a couple of times it looked like they always played a flat 4 and would generally have a 4 diamond midfield witha roving defensive center middie and an attacking center middie but the outside middies spent lots of time pushed up in the offensive third and certainly when the attacking CM took possession the 2 strikers and 2 outside Mids would work in concert looking to attack. I also saw a 4-3-3 in which with the midfielders and strikers were allowed to overlap from sideline to sideline. I mention them only because they are a very well coached team with players that seem to grasp beyond the "normal" 14 YO when it comes to tactics and they tend to really spread the field out with their shape.

There are also variations within the numbers. For example, a 4-4-2 can be VERY different from a 4-4-2 depending on whether your defense or mid fielders (or both) play flat or diamond. Similarly I think you will find almost no differences in application between a 3-5-2 and a 4-4-2 (sweeper/stopper) if the coach requires the central defender to play behind the outside defenders -which at younger ages tends to happen naturally. The main difference is that a stopper is generally man to man on a striker whereas a sitting center mid will be playing zonal defense - almost like a rover back - in front of the defensive line. It is interesting that a couple of the people who had commented on other threads about the Stars now U-15s formation found it impossible to determine beyond 3 or 4 backs what they were doing. Having watched them a couple of times it looked like they always played a flat 4 and would generally have a 4 diamond midfield witha roving defensive center middie and an attacking center middie but the outside middies spent lots of time pushed up in the offensive third and certainly when the attacking CM took possession the 2 strikers and 2 outside Mids would work in concert looking to attack. I also saw a 4-3-3 in which with the midfielders and strikers were allowed to overlap from sideline to sideline. I mention them only because they are a very well coached team with players that seem to grasp beyond the "normal" 14 YO when it comes to tactics and they tend to really spread the field out with their shape.

Thank you for the great post. Just a few comments regarding the underlined parts. One, it has struck me in the past how the central D in a 3-5-2 can play very much like a sweeper, even with the Revs. Two, as a parent, I often find it extremely difficult to figure out from the sidelines what a team is doing formation-wise. Occasionally a venue will have a higher vantage point, and then things start becoming clearer.

Three, thanks for that description, I have seen that Stars team play and that attack is devastating, if that's the right word.

[JustForFun]

Cujo writes:

In a 2-0 game I might even switch to a single forward with 9 mids and D.

Cujo now we know that you used to coach for the Hamlets! :D :D :D As for your high school so-called soccer strategies - please spare me the pathetic self-indulgence of your puny egotistical exploits.

Kazimieirz wrote:

an attacking center middie but the outside middies spent lots of time pushed up in the offensive third and certainly when the attacking CM took possession the 2 strikers and 2 outside Mids would work in concert looking to attack. I also saw a 4-3-3 in which with the midfielders and strikers were allowed to overlap from sideline to sideline.

Guest writes:

Three, thanks for that description, I have seen that Stars team play and that attack is devastating, if that's the right word.

Devastating? Or foolish? There is a reason that most coaches do not attack with 4 players. In one word - counterattack. Look back at the commentary from Texas about the switch by the Stars to a 4-3-3 in the second half, and their extended attack, which was negated by the associated Texas counterattack. The 4, 5 and 6 person attack works well at U11 to U15, but not after that. Why? Because the older kids do not understand the formation movement as well as the 14/15 year old girl's Stars team? Or because long-term such flagrantly offensive formations lead to counterattacks that cost the match? The 4, 5 and 6 player attack formations by the Stars is a "look good" short-term strategy.

[JustForFun]

Kazimieirz writes:

Similarly I think you will find almost no differences in application between a 3-5-2 and a 4-4-2 (sweeper/stopper) if the coach requires the central defender to play behind the outside defenders -which at younger ages tends to happen naturally.

I am not sure what this means. What is the difference between a 4-4-2 Flat Back Four formation and a 4-4-2 Sweeper/Stopper formation? When the Forward attacks down the middle one of the Central Defenders has to step and conversely the other Central Defender drops. Now the Flat Back Four is a Sweeper/Stopper? Therefore you will find almost no difference in application of a Flat Back Four and a Sweeper/Stopper?

I think there is a big difference between a 4-4-2 Flat Back Four formation and a 4-4-2 Sweeper/ Stopper formation. I also think there is a big difference between a 3-5-2 and a 4-4-2. Are there big differences or almost no difference in application? A 4-3-3 formation with one Forward falling back to support and assist the attack of the other 2 Forwards is no different than a 4-4-2? I think there is a difference in the flexibility of the defense or the attack with the flexibility allowing the defense to adjust and the attack to confuse. Possibly the point being made is that it is difficult for most on the sidelines to discern the difference because most can't see the game that well? Possibly the poster was being diplomatic?

Three, thanks for that description, I have seen that Stars team play and that attack is devastating, if that's the right word.

Devastating? Or foolish? There is a reason that most coaches do not attack with 4 players. In one word - counterattack. Look back at the commentary from Texas about the switch by the Stars to a 4-3-3 in the second half, and their extended attack, which was negated by the associated Texas counterattack. The 4, 5 and 6 person attack works well at U11 to U15, but not after that. Why? Because the older kids do not understand the formation movement as well as the 14/15 year old girl's Stars team? Or because long-term such flagrantly offensive formations lead to counterattacks that cost the match? The 4, 5 and 6 player attack formations by the Stars is a "look good" short-term strategy.

Cool analysis, but maybe you're being a little harsh? The Stars attack was certainly devastating in Mass., Region 1, and the first round of the Nationals. And then the Stars were able to switch to a 4-3-3 at the half against one of the best teams in the country and hang in? Well, that's cool, too.

JustForFun also wrote:

I think there is a big difference between a 4-4-2 Flat Back Four formation and a 4-4-2 Sweeper/ Stopper formation. I also think there is a big difference between a 3-5-2 and a 4-4-2. Are there big differences or almost no difference in application?... Possibly the point being made is that it is difficult for most on the sidelines to discern the difference because most can't see the game that well? Possibly the poster was being diplomatic?

Possibly the poster was being diplomatic, but if so, it's OK, there's no need to be diplomatic--I admit I'm pretty dumb, and I'm just an anonymous guest anyway. :) For me, games are generally comprehensible from the top of the bleachers or on TV, but far less so from the sidelines. Possibly that's because I don't understand the game well. Anyway, interesting posts, JFF.