LSU-Bama: Let's end the skill vs athleticism debate right now

[Unregistered]

Just finished watching LSU-Alabama. LSU won in OT 9-6.

The athletes in this game all over the field are more athletic AND more skilled than college and professional soccer players. The plays they make are just phenomenal, and both high athleticism and high skill are required. These athletes are freakishly good. I don't even like football very much. I prefer soccer. But there is no comparison between D1 football and basketball players and even the very best DAP level soccer players. The former render the latter rec league athletes, pure and simple. Case closed.

[Unregistered]

Just finished watching LSU-Alabama. LSU won in OT 9-6.

The athletes in this game all over the field are more athletic AND more skilled than college and professional soccer players. The plays they make are just phenomenal, and both high athleticism and high skill are required. These athletes are freakishly good. I don't even like football very much. I prefer soccer. But there is no comparison between D1 football and basketball players and even the very best DAP level soccer players. The former render the latter rec league athletes, pure and simple. Case closed.

Does that include Bama's place kicker?
Dumb @ss.
You are comparing apples to oranges.
If you think big, strong, fast and fearless is the be all and end all of athleticism, then american football is the place to look. Duh.
You take Tom Brady. I'll take Messi. Case closed.

[Unregistered]

I agree that it is tough to compare football and soccer players, but i garauntee that they are plenty of college and professional football players that had they played soccer instead would be better than our national team guys. This is just my opinion, not based on just strength or speed but overall atheleticism.

[Unregistered]

Does that include Bama's place kicker?
Dumb @ss.
You are comparing apples to oranges.
If you think big, strong, fast and fearless is the be all and end all of athleticism, then american football is the place to look. Duh.
You take Tom Brady. I'll take Messi. Case closed.

Messi could not be a towel boy for LSU. Soccer folks always respond defensively to this issue, and they without fail underestimate the skill level of athletes in football and basketball. They certainly are physical specimens, but they have skills and can make plays that are simply remarkable.

[Unregistered]

Messi could not be a towel boy for LSU. Soccer folks always respond defensively to this issue, and they without fail underestimate the skill level of athletes in football and basketball. They certainly are physical specimens, but they have skills and can make plays that are simply remarkable.

And nobody on LSU could play for Barcelona. Your argument sucks.

Did you ever see Ocho Cinco try to play soccer?

[Unregistered]

Can't be much worse than he's playing at receiver. Maybe the Krafts can recoup their investment and play him at holding midfield.

[Unregistered]

And nobody on LSU could play for Barcelona. Your argument sucks.

Did you ever see Ocho Cinco try to play soccer?

I hope you are right, but I don't think you are. Not that LSU players could play for Barcelona now, but that they are better athletes and could have been better soccer players if they had trained and focused on soccer from age 9 or 10. Leave Messi aside for a minute. Compare to DAP level players. It's a joke. Real, high level athletes vs rec league gym rats.

[Unregistered]

Can't be much worse than he's playing at receiver. Maybe the Krafts can recoup their investment and play him at holding midfield.

Can he be any worse than Rusty Pierce or Joey Franchino?

[Unregistered]

Kyle Rote jr, won the ultimate equality test 2 years in a row on a show called the Superstars, which pitted top-flight athletes from different genres competing in various athletic endeavors.

[Unregistered]

really!!!!?????

Just finished watching LSU-Alabama. LSU won in OT 9-6.

The athletes in this game all over the field are more athletic AND more skilled than college and professional soccer players. The plays they make are just phenomenal, and both high athleticism and high skill are required. These athletes are freakishly good. I don't even like football very much. I prefer soccer. But there is no comparison between D1 football and basketball players and even the very best DAP level soccer players. The former render the latter rec league athletes, pure and simple. Case closed.

Wow!!! I must have watched a different LSU/Alabama game from the rest of you. However, my opinion was just confirmed by the ESPN group. This game was pure ugly. These two teams are supposed to be #1 and #2 in the country yet they couldn't muster more than 15 points between them....and in OT to boot. These two teams did not show that they were #1 and #2

I don't doubt the athleticism of these players, but we shouldn't be comparing them to soccer players. Even less to DAP athletes which are about 3-7 years younger.

Let's compare the football player to the soccer player. The total time of actual motion during an American football game is less than 10 minutes. Even the best runners on a football team are sucking oxygen in between plays.

Let's start to compare. First let's leave out all the linesmen as they would never survive on a soccer field for more than 5 minutes....without having to get some oxygen. These guys were bred for one thing and one thing only.....short bursts and hit. Linebackers are out also for the similar reasons. They are great at shorts bursts and grabbing, but I don't see them catching a soccer ball on their feet.

The quarterback in college football ranges in size, speed, and ability. The better quarterbacks are about 6'2" 200-240 pounds. 90% of their game is spent in the pocket hoping that his linesmen are protecting him. I'll give him the scramble and occasional run, but to be able to move up and down the field in a fluid manner receiving and giving a soccer ball.....NO. These athletes are gifted throwing machines not kicking and trapping mechanics.

Receivers/Safetys/Cornerbacks/Tight Ends: These are athletes with great catching and leaping abilities. These guys are fast and can see control their area. Could they be soccer players....if they played since age 9?? Maybe. Can they change direction in an instant...perhaps. The only thing we can see is their forward motion. Wes Welkers are few and far between. There is no way that you can look at these players and make any conclusion about what they can do during a continuous game going up, down, and sideways on a soccer field.

We are left with the running backs and fullbacks. These guys are fast, strong, quick, and can take a hit. They know how to grab a ball in their arms and not let go!!! They can then run through defenses, change direction, stop and go like no one else.....with the ball in their arms!! I suppose you can claim that these are great athletes. However, can you really confidently say how quick and successful they would be on their feet if the ball was at their feet....without anyone blocking for them???

Let's not even talk about the kickers.....if they get hit, the refs call a personal foul the they either get the ball back or benefit from the ball moving 15 yards.

I am not about to say that Messi....or even Diego Fagundez would be able to be a running back.....but I submit that it would be easier for a soccer player to weave through defenses holding a ball in his arms than it would be for a running back to weave through defenses with a ball at his feet.

I will submit that Diego Fagundez would be crushed-dead with the first hit and tackle from a 6'4 300lb linesman compared to the average college or professional running back/fullback.

Be careful what you compare. Soccer and American Football are very different sports. The former has been around significantly longer than the latter.

[Unregistered]

^^^^^Then you don't know how to watch what you were watching. There were incredible plays made all night, especially on the defensive end. You're going to complain about scoring when classic soccer games are 0-0???

Look, I'm a soccer guy....but I'm not an idiot. College and professional soccer players are not even on the same planet compared to these other athletes. At a major US university they are rec league and only allowed in the student rec center and not the real athletic training facilities.

And how many times is someone going to mention Kyle Rote, Jr and what was basically a game show from 30+ years ago? Got anything more recent or more relevant? Maybe like Mia Hamm doing well on Jeopardy?

[Unregistered]

Just finished watching LSU-Alabama. LSU won in OT 9-6.

The athletes in this game all over the field are more athletic AND more skilled than college and professional soccer players. The plays they make are just phenomenal, and both high athleticism and high skill are required. These athletes are freakishly good. I don't even like football very much. I prefer soccer. But there is no comparison between D1 football and basketball players and even the very best DAP level soccer players. The former render the latter rec league athletes, pure and simple. Case closed.

How many 6'5", 230 anyone's do you see on a soccer field? Wide receivers, quarterbacks and defensive backs have to read and react to what the the opposition is giving them - but they only play one side of the ball, unlike soccer players who go from defense to offense in a heartbeat.... Soccer may have set plays of a free kick, but that's it. Football is all about set plays and execution, Soccer is all read, respond, create.

One isn't more of an athlete than the other. A successful athlete in one sport won't necessarily be a successful athlete in another. They aren't the same games.

[Unregistered]

How many 6'5", 230 anyone's do you see on a soccer field? Wide receivers, quarterbacks and defensive backs have to read and react to what the the opposition is giving them - but they only play one side of the ball, unlike soccer players who go from defense to offense in a heartbeat.... Soccer may have set plays of a free kick, but that's it. Football is all about set plays and execution, Soccer is all read, respond, create.

One isn't more of an athlete than the other. A successful athlete in one sport won't necessarily be a successful athlete in another. They aren't the same games.

There's something called the 'eye test.' Look, remember when the NBA had something like a 6'0 and under league. That's where soccer belongs. Would you say a jockey like Willy Shoemaker is as good an athlete as Adrian Peterson, or Derrick Rose?

[Unregistered]

Maybe not. But Willy Whiteshoe Shoemaker would certainly catch more passes than Ocho Cinco!

[dd2]

A few observations about the game and its skill level:

1. The Alabama placekicking unit made only 2-6 field goals, with one being blocked. Don't know whether the kicker simply messed up, his holds weren't good, or his protection let him down, but that's not indicative high skill at the top of the college game.

2. The LSU starting quarterback threw 2 interceptions and wound up being benched. Granted, he was playing well before this game, but his performance was not highly skilled - not for his supposed level.

3. On the 4th quarter play when LSU intercepted near its goal line (a turning point in the game), the Alabama quarterback either made an ill-advised throw under pressure or failed to place the ball properly. His receiver was wide open coming out of his break, and the ball was underthrown. Sure, it might not have been an easy play, but doesn't a skilled quarterback put the ball where only his receiver can catch it (the entire right side was wide open) instead of putting up a jump ball?

My guess is that the Alabama players do not think they were beaten by a team that outplayed them athletically or skill-wise. My guess is that they feel like they had the game and let it slip away through their own mistakes. As for LSU, I think they were lucky to win. They did not, on the whole, outplay their opponent. However, their opponent's inability to capitalize on opportunities, particularly on special teams, left the game in LSU's lap. The game featured a number of outstanding physical specimens, no doubt, who play the game at a level higher than the vast majority of college players. But I didn't think I watched a game that featured unusual skill, at least not at the so-called "skill positions."

As to the ultimate point of the OP's post, I do not think that the "solution" to U.S. Soccer's lack of success was playing football in Alabama last night. Yes, a number of those football players are fast enough and physical enough to play very high level soccer, and they're probably faster and stronger than most soccer players (and probably most of the Spanish national team). However, we know very little about their innate talent to handle a soccer ball with their feet.

The "football players would make better soccer players than the ones we have" argument overlooks that world-class ball handling ability is an unusual athletic skill of its own. There's no reason to think that simply being big and fast will translate to ball handling ability. It's like saying a wide receiver or tight end would surely be a world-class dribbler or shooter in basketball. They might be pretty good, but probably not NBA quality.

In order for the "better athlete" solution for US Soccer to work, one has to believe that a soccer team is better off with moderate ball skill and .2 seconds more 40 yard dash speed. That exactly describes the U.S. Soccer philosophy, and we're getting hammered in world-class competition because of it - at least on the men's side. It works for most youth and even college soccer, but not at the world-class level.

Spain surely has many citizens faster and stronger than those playing on its national team. If Spain thought those citizens would improve their national team, they'd include them. Instead, Spain wins by taking its best soccer players - players who are reasonably fast and "athletic," but fabulously good with the ball. I don't think that the U.S. will catch countries like Spain until the U.S. stops trying to solve its problems with football players.