New breed of American coaches and deconstructing why I am a jerk

[Unregistered]

As I meander around these threads and bang into various posters, a few perhaps disparate thoughts are beginning to coalesce. And yes, I am the poster accused of "hating" DAP. I don't "hate" DAP, but I do seem to react strongly to certain attitudes of people and what I perceive as a special breed of New England pomposity. That said, I've been thinking....

I wish Caleb Porter was the MNT coach. My sense is that he and Brad Stevens at Butler (men's bball) share a lot in common and represent a new style and standard in US coaching. Player friendly, respectful (to everyone), but still tough disciplinarians who are very skilled at what they do but also extremely comfortable in their own skin. I think they understand what it means for individual players to come together for the goals of a team. I am more sure about Stevens but I hope my impressions are true about Porter.

In this vein, I am thinking about the frequent laments here about US Soccer and the MNT and WNT, and the urgings to adopt a more Euro style. I don't think we want the caricature of the American style that is painted in the thread in this forum, but I agree with the few posters who say the US should have its own style built on traditional US strengths while borrowing and blending in aspects of other styles.

This leads me, and admittedly my thoughts are in a nascent stage, to some of my stuff about DAP and the like, including my reactions when folks dog the hell out of high school soccer. Now, also admittedly, I might not feel this way if my kid was riding pine in high school, but there is a team concept and spirit that I think is lost in club soccer and the whole focus on the IDENTIFICATION process. Soccer in these threads (and often on the field) is not about teams at all. It ends up being about individuals, and individual development, and which individuals will emerge out of the huge thicket we call a player pool. US Olympic bball doesn't follow this model. Yes, players are selected, but the whole structure of college and professional bball isn't set up to lead to the end-goal of the US Mens Bball team. Maybe this whole identification and sifting out model is the wrong model.

Sure, I am writing in some broad strokes, but there is an aspect to club soccer, and perhaps more prevalent as you go up the hierarchy to DAP, ECNL, etc, where players are less members of a true team "playing for the name on the front of the jersey instead of the one on the back" and more like tennis or golf players, playing for oneself and always in the chase to position oneself ahead of the next guy (who, for lack of better words, is a "teammate").

And sure, before folks react with politics, America is about rugged individualism and individual accomplishments. But it is also about "team," and there is something that many (I'll resist saying all) kids get out of high school team participation that cannot be duplicated anywhere else. And I loathe to see kids who already may be all about themselves and snotty get even snottier. And I loathe reading the posts of snotty parents who defend elitist pursuits (even when they are benefiting based on individual interest and ancillary, unintended effects that they clearly intend to exploit). Perhaps I didn't need to add those last two sentences, but maybe I did.

[Unregistered]

Not sure where you're going, but that doesn't mean you"re wrong.... Here are my thoughts random as they are:

American soccer is in its nascent stage where, as a country, we're getting our head around the game, but we're a long way from a method of play that reflects our culture. Because America is a melting pot, what that method will be truly remains to be seen.

Whether its Caleb Porter or Jurgen Klinsmann, I think such coaches will be stepping stones towards a method of play that we won't really see for another 20 years. My thinking here is that its only been in the last 10 years that a critical mass of American athletes have started to play and train at soccer in a manner that develops skills and understanding of the game at the highest level.

I think it will be when the youth players of today are old enough to be the coaches of tomorrow, that we'll see American soccer blossom. Its those kids/coaches that have come of age in America, are its culture, and have played soccer all their lives in such an environment that will be the ones to meld the melting pot into a successful method of soccer that reflects our American culture.

[Unregistered]

Another point is that the egotism and individualism that you see in the top clubs and academy programs are simply the nature of the elite soccer beast. If you think the 13 year old who gets id'd by Ajax doesn't have parents that are over the top about their protégée, you haven't met one. I've watched DF since U10. By U13, we were calling him and his family Diego Inc. His father was a driven developer and marketer of his son's talent, and for good reason. By age 13, DF was ranked the top BU14 soccer player in the US. He is now a professional with global significance. This is about an individual, not a team. Now granted, 99.9% of the parents of elite players in this country are just wannabes, but in all fairness, focus on individual talent is how elite soccer talent is identified and developed.

[Unregistered]

In this vein, I am thinking about the frequent laments here about US Soccer and the MNT and WNT, and the urgings to adopt a more Euro style. I don't think we want the caricature of the American style that is painted in the thread in this forum, but I agree with the few posters who say the US should have its own style built on traditional US strengths while borrowing and blending in aspects of other styles.

I detect an odor of political and cultural caricature behind the notion of "a more Euro style," as if European soccer players are at bottom effete latte drinkers with a horror of physical exertion.*

What is "a more Euro style"? Is it English long ball? Spanish possession mastery? Netherlands total soccer? French speed and creativity? Italian defensive tenaciousness?

And what is "the American style"? As far as I can tell from posts on this forum, it boils down to the notion that superior aerobic fitness can compensate for inferior ball skills. Many people writing on this forum simply don't comprehend the enormous difference between journeymen soccer players (99% of all U.S. players college level and above) and top European, South American, Asian, and African players. And they delude themselves into thinking that the latter are somehow not as fit as Americans, probably because they make the game look so much easier.

It's understandable. It is not easy to see obvious differences between the Red Sox and Pawtucket, or an NBA team and a CBA team, or a top 100 tennis player and a college champion. Superficially their games are similar, after all.

To use a crude analogy, it is as if people believe a college basketball team could successfully compete with an NBA team by applying full-court pressure the entire game. (Maybe we need Nolan Richardson as NT coach!) Or maybe, to be more fair, it's as if they think an American team could compete with European teams just as the world has caught up in basketball.

Either way, they are misguided.

*Like Wayne Rooney and Vinnie Jones, for instance.

[Unregistered]

Bingo! you nailed it Much as DAP snobs diss HS soccer.
It is the closest we come in this country to a real club
atmosphere. The kids play with there classmates who
Often are neighbors.They hang out at each others
houses. All this contributes to tremendous team spirit
On the field. Compare this to DAP where every kid is
a private contractor. There is really no pride in who
they play for,and many kids only see each other at
games. While there is a buck to be made you will
Never have real clubs here. The pay to play model
Is just too ingrained in our sports culture.

[Unregistered]

Bingo! you nailed it Much as DAP snobs diss HS soccer.
It is the closest we come in this country to a real club
atmosphere. The kids play with there classmates who
Often are neighbors.They hang out at each others
houses. All this contributes to tremendous team spirit
On the field. Compare this to DAP where every kid is
a private contractor. There is really no pride in who
they play for,and many kids only see each other at
games. While there is a buck to be made you will
Never have real clubs here. The pay to play model
Is just too ingrained in our sports culture.

This is the total opposite of our experience. Club is where our son has made what may be lifelong friends, including kids from other ethnic and economic groups that he would never have met in our lily white town. On the other hand, his HS team for the most part does not like each other, with a great divide between those who play the game well and those who can't complete or receive a pass. Club is where the team spirit is, not HS.

[Unregistered]

Another point is that the egotism and individualism that you see in the top clubs and academy programs are simply the nature of the elite soccer beast. If you think the 13 year old who gets id'd by Ajax doesn't have parents that are over the top about their protégée, you haven't met one. I've watched DF since U10. By U13, we were calling him and his family Diego Inc. His father was a driven developer and marketer of his son's talent, and for good reason. By age 13, DF was ranked the top BU14 soccer player in the US. He is now a professional with global significance. This is about an individual, not a team. Now granted, 99.9% of the parents of elite players in this country are just wannabes, but in all fairness, focus on individual talent is how elite soccer talent is identified and developed.

Has nothing to do with soccer, actually.
The same is true of every Tiger, LeBron, Kobe or even Stephen Strasburg.
Elite youth programs are much more about getting kids to the next level than winning at this level. CUZ THAT'S WHERE THE MONEY IS!

Oh, except for soccer in the US. There's no money in that.
Give MLS a good TV contract (get people to go to the games), and that all changes.
The youth model would change overnight.

Yes, I realize it's chicken and egg.....

[Unregistered]

I detect an odor of political and cultural caricature behind the notion of "a more Euro style," as if European soccer players are at bottom effete latte drinkers with a horror of physical exertion.*

What is "a more Euro style"? Is it English long ball? Spanish possession mastery? Netherlands total soccer? French speed and creativity? Italian defensive tenaciousness?

And what is "the American style"? As far as I can tell from posts on this forum, it boils down to the notion that superior aerobic fitness can compensate for inferior ball skills. Many people writing on this forum simply don't comprehend the enormous difference between journeymen soccer players (99% of all U.S. players college level and above) and top European, South American, Asian, and African players. And they delude themselves into thinking that the latter are somehow not as fit as Americans, probably because they make the game look so much easier.

It's understandable. It is not easy to see obvious differences between the Red Sox and Pawtucket, or an NBA team and a CBA team, or a top 100 tennis player and a college champion. Superficially their games are similar, after all.

To use a crude analogy, it is as if people believe a college basketball team could successfully compete with an NBA team by applying full-court pressure the entire game. (Maybe we need Nolan Richardson as NT coach!) Or maybe, to be more fair, it's as if they think an American team could compete with European teams just as the world has caught up in basketball.

Either way, they are misguided.

*Like Wayne Rooney and Vinnie Jones, for instance.

Don't be so defensive....

Nobody is disparaging "Euro" soccer. In your reference to "English long ball? Spanish possession mastery? Netherlands total soccer? French speed and creativity? Italian defensive tenaciousness" aren't you also making a "cultural caricature" of those country's style of play?

I'm not trying to bust you. My only point is that America doesn't have a syle yet that matches our culture. I think we will in time. Under any circumstance, however, whether the American style is rooted in "superior aerobic fitness" or something else, all the players are going to have to have superior ball skills. There is no substitute for those.

[Unregistered]

Has nothing to do with soccer, actually.
The same is true of every Tiger, LeBron, Kobe or even Stephen Strasburg.
Elite youth programs are much more about getting kids to the next level than winning at this level. CUZ THAT'S WHERE THE MONEY IS!

Oh, except for soccer in the US. There's no money in that.
Give MLS a good TV contract (get people to go to the games), and that all changes.
The youth model would change overnight.

Yes, I realize it's chicken and egg.....

It has everything to do with soccer, actually. Professional soccer. And what you are criticizing is the silliness of parents confusing US college track, team experience based youth soccer with European style professional track youth ID and development.

The problem is the Ajax style, individual ID programs are exactly what the academy programs in theory are trying to imitate. The point is to develop professional players, not get all warm and fuzzy on a team. The team thing is the overwhelmingly important factor for all but the best of the best, so of course it's silly when the wannabes turn their backs on it. But
you can't pin the blame on the academy programs themselves for this. They are just trying to get the ball rolling here. They're about 10 years out, and parents are delusional, but that's not because of the team thing. It's because the mission (individual ID of future pros) has a ways to go.

[Unregistered]

Don't be so defensive....

Nobody is disparaging "Euro" soccer. In your reference to "English long ball? Spanish possession mastery? Netherlands total soccer? French speed and creativity? Italian defensive tenaciousness" aren't you also making a "cultural caricature" of those country's style of play?

I'm not trying to bust you. My only point is that America doesn't have a syle yet that matches our culture. I think we will in time. Under any circumstance, however, whether the American style is rooted in "superior aerobic fitness" or something else, all the players are going to have to have superior ball skills. There is no substitute for those.

Defensive? I was being polite. :)

Yes, the national styles I cited are caricatures too -- but athletic ones, not cultural. There is more than a grain of truth in them, as anyone who has watched international soccer for the past 40 years would readily acknowledge. The point of citing them was to underline by contrast how empty the talk of the “Euro style” on this forum has been.

As far as I can tell, the advocates here for an American style of soccer are trying to make lemonade from lemons, without realizing it.

[Unregistered]

As published in the Wall Street Journal, Monday, October 3, page A17

Imagine the National Football League in an alternate reality. Each player's salary is based on how long he's been in the league. It's about tenure, not talent. The same scale is used for every player, no matter whether he's an All-Pro quarterback or the last man on the roster. For every year a player's been in this NFL, he gets a bump in pay. The only difference between Tom Brady and the worst player in the league is a few years of step increases. And if a player makes it through his third season, he can never be cut from the roster until he chooses to retire, except in the most extreme cases of misconduct.

Let's face the truth about this alternate reality: The on-field product would steadily decline. Why bother playing harder or better and risk getting hurt?

No matter how much money was poured into the league, it wouldn't get better. In fact, in many ways the disincentive to play harder or to try to stand out would be even stronger with more money.

Of course, a few wild-eyed reformers might suggest the whole system was broken and needed revamping to reward better results, but the players union would refuse to budge and then demonize the reform advocates: "They hate football. They hate the players. They hate the fans." The only thing that might get done would be building bigger, more expensive stadiums and installing more state-of-the-art technology. But that just wouldn't help.

If you haven't figured it out yet, the NFL in this alternate reality is the real -life American public education system

Mr. Tarkenton, an NFL Hall of Fame quarterback with the Minnesota Vikings and the New York Giants from 1961 to 1978,

[Unregistered]

European style professional track youth ID and development.

Who says this is European?
It happens all over the world (except North America).
In South America, every pro club is doing it.
In Asia, clubs do it in democracies, governments do it in totalitarian states.
In Africa, if there isn't something like this (at least from some left-over colonial thing), it probably means there is a civil war going on.
Who doesn't do it besides the US, Canada and India?
Hell, N. Korea does it.

[Unregistered]

Defensive? I was being polite. :)

Yes, the national styles I cited are caricatures too -- but athletic ones, not cultural. There is more than a grain of truth in them, as anyone who has watched international soccer for the past 40 years would readily acknowledge. The point of citing them was to underline by contrast how empty the talk of the “Euro style” on this forum has been.

As far as I can tell, the advocates here for an American style of soccer are trying to make lemonade from lemons, without realizing it.

Do you think Americans of Spanish, French, English, Brazilian, Argentine, or Italian etc heritage will always be "lemons"?

[Unregistered]

"Perhaps no other sector of American society so demonstrates the failure of government spending and interference. We've destroyed individual initiative, individual innovation and personal achievement, and marginalized anyone willing to point it out. As one of my coaches used to say, "You don't get vast results with half-vast efforts!"

The results we're looking for are students learning, so we need to reward great teachers who show they can make that happen."

FT

[Unregistered]

This is the total opposite of our experience. Club is where our son has made what may be lifelong friends, including kids from other ethnic and economic groups that he would never have met in our lily white town. On the other hand, his HS team for the most part does not like each other, with a great divide between those who play the game well and those who can't complete or receive a pass. Club is where the team spirit is, not HS.

I am curious about how the "lifelong" friends thing works out. Basking in the glow together wearing their DAP/club kits is a powerful drug.