Men's games reffed stricter/ safer than women's?

[Unregistered]

I saw a few different college and high school games this weekend. I was watching both men and women's games, and one aspect jumped right out at me. The officiating between them is much different. Men's games are called tighter and safer.

Refs call trips and dangerous plays in the men's, and let even hard shoulder barges and inconsequential pulls and tugs go.

In the women's game, refs let trips, hacks, hard hits from behind, and even dangerous dives at the legs go uncalled. They whistle up tugs and shoulder bumps almost exclusively.

In 3 women's/ girl's games I saw 7 girls taken injured off the field, 4 after dangerous and awkward slides to the legs, all of which received no cards or warnings. In 2 men's games I saw 3 men taken off, one as a result of clashed shins in a clear 50-50 tackle, and one as a result of a clash of heads and the other for I presume a pulled groin. Slight trips and reckless slide tackles received quick warnings and cards in both men's games.

Have others noticed this trend? Why would there be this difference?

[Unregistered]

I saw a few different college and high school games this weekend. I was watching both men and women's games, and one aspect jumped right out at me. The officiating between them is much different. Men's games are called tighter and safer.

Refs call trips and dangerous plays in the men's, and let even hard shoulder barges and inconsequential pulls and tugs go.

In the women's game, refs let trips, hacks, hard hits from behind, and even dangerous dives at the legs go uncalled. They whistle up tugs and shoulder bumps almost exclusively.

In 3 women's/ girl's games I saw 7 girls taken injured off the field, 4 after dangerous and awkward slides to the legs, all of which received no cards or warnings. In 2 men's games I saw 3 men taken off, one as a result of clashed shins in a clear 50-50 tackle, and one as a result of a clash of heads and the other for I presume a pulled groin. Slight trips and reckless slide tackles received quick warnings and cards in both men's games.

Have others noticed this trend? Why would there be this difference?

I do both men's and women's leagues and while there are differences in the style of play and the physical components and aspects of the game I try to call them the same way. The LOTG do not allow for gender differences. Maintaining flow and temperature are totally different though as there is a lot of stuff that goes on between women that is more subtle and things escalate differently.

That being said a reckless challenge is a reckless challenge and a hard foul is a hard foul. I think some of the issue at hand though is the male perception that women need to be protected and it is the job of men to do this. Fathers are more protective of their daughters than their sons for the most part and this natural instinct can influence perspective.

Finally women in general tend to be more subject to ankle and knee injuries than men and I think this contributes to a higher rate of those kinds of injuries. Also the tendency towards rostering less skilled and bigger and faster women at the college level has changed the game and I think that NCAA officials in general have been behind the curve a little in managing flow and temperature. To wit Ms. Lambert. She should have been tossed from that game 35 minutes earlier.

[Unregistered]

I think some of the issue at hand though is the male perception that women need to be protected and it is the job of men to do this. Fathers are more protective of their daughters than their sons for the most part and this natural instinct can influence perspective.

Could some male refs be overcompensating for this need to protect by "letting them play"?

I realize women are more susceptible to knee and leg injuries. With that in mind, wouldn't it make sense to call fouls endangering the lower extremities more strictly, or at minimum as strictly as men?

I agree that the increased size of female athletes contributes to the "big girl" style soccer currently in favor. Also, females are much more experienced than even a decade back. Many play organized, coached soccer year round. Tackles that previously might have been construed as clumsy are now often premeditated, targeted and intentional.

Thanks for reffing and giving back to the sport.

[Unregistered]

My observation is that College games are much better officiated than HS or club. The latter two can have very good officiating, but it is uneven. As for college, there seems to be two standards. The St John's and UConn's of the world play with more style and speed and is mostly a clean game. Other teams such as UMass, Hartford, and some other state schools tend to play a more physical, chippy game. The style difference is understandable, but I wish they would tighten it up a bit. The BU/UMass game on Sunday featured blood, a slew of minor injuries, and an ejection that took too long and after too many injuries to happen. The coaches were uncharacteristically screaming at the official throughout the game regarding the safety of their players. Not a common occurence at this level in my experience, but tell that to a CH of BU, a top and durable player who left the field that day with an injury.

[Unregistered]

Moving between different levels of play or even just different styles of play is a big challenge for otherwise competent referees.

Just this last weekend, I reffed an mens adult amateur division 2 game. Lots of ex-college players, still in great shape. I also did a recreational-level, hs age boys game. You cannot be the same referee in both games. I have seen refs who do pro games struggle to do youth, and very good youth referees fail to make the transition to adult.

So, to say that refs are different for men and women, is really just to say that the games are different. And I think everyone would agree to that. And most would think it's a good thing.

As for ref's of women's games allowing more risk of injury in the game... Well, I don't see that. For me, the riskiest league in the world is MLS, followed closely by EPL. Murder is a yellow card.

What I fear is that what you are actually seeing is a lower caliber of referee may be assigned to some women's games. Imagine that you are the assigner and you have two games to assign, a D1 men's game and a D1 women's game. Which do you think requires the higher level referee? And, if you have a pool of refs where they aren't all studs, well......

Personally, I don't see this a lot in higher level women's soccer. But at the lower levels, I think it's pretty clear. Simply because the women's game requires less athleticism out of the refereeing crew, they sometimes get shorted on the quality of the refs. Just my personal opinion....

[Unregistered]

Let's face it, the level of officiating in this country needs work, lots of work. Just watch an MLS game. And someone just recently mentioned the officiating of WPS games and the complaint that what goes on in those games would not be allowed in the men's game (presumably they weren't talking about MLS).

I suspect assignors may give boys/men's games to the more experienced officials. As we know testosterone is running high during high school and college and for that reason the games need officials that can keep a lid on things. The girls/women then get lesser experienced officials, although I must say one of the best officiated girls games at the HS level were by older gentlemen who grew up playing the game in countries beyond our borders and I saw that even though my kid got carded (rightfully so) in that game. It was a real pleasure to see the game called by those who really do know the game inside and out.

Here's the other issue for girls today. We've created a sports environment for them that honors the female warrior, those players who are willing to get "stuck in". It's a cultural thing IMO that comes from the influence of English coaches. I don't think you'd see it as much if we saw more coaches from Latin countries coaching girls. But then those Latin coaches tend to look at girls playing soccer as an anomaly.

[Unregistered]

Moving between different levels of play or even just different styles of play is a big challenge for otherwise competent referees.

Just this last weekend, I reffed an mens adult amateur division 2 game. Lots of ex-college players, still in great shape. I also did a recreational-level, hs age boys game. You cannot be the same referee in both games. I have seen refs who do pro games struggle to do youth, and very good youth referees fail to make the transition to adult.

So, to say that refs are different for men and women, is really just to say that the games are different. And I think everyone would agree to that. And most would think it's a good thing.

As for ref's of women's games allowing more risk of injury in the game... Well, I don't see that. For me, the riskiest league in the world is MLS, followed closely by EPL. Murder is a yellow card.

What I fear is that what you are actually seeing is a lower caliber of referee may be assigned to some women's games. Imagine that you are the assigner and you have two games to assign, a D1 men's game and a D1 women's game. Which do you think requires the higher level referee? And, if you have a pool of refs where they aren't all studs, well......

Personally, I don't see this a lot in higher level women's soccer. But at the lower levels, I think it's pretty clear. Simply because the women's game requires less athleticism out of the refereeing crew, they sometimes get shorted on the quality of the refs. Just my personal opinion....

Good post. The higher skill levels really present a kind of paradox for the official. The players are given wider latitude in certain areas of the game but at the same time the speed and skill the possess also places a greater burden of responsibility on them to play in control. What is triffling at the higher level may be a foul in a rec game with hack players. On the other hand what is reckless at the higher level may be lack of skill for the rec league.

No two games, levels, age groups, "cultures", or leagues are the same and as an official you must adapt your game to what is going on at that particular moment in time and depending upon the circumstances.

[Unregistered]

This is an enlightening thread. I have often wondered why my daughters' games differed in officiating from my son's games. These posts give it some perspective.

Another observation I have made recently... My daughter's school team has been dominating their division. Usually, by the second half of the game, the refs begin to let a lot of stuff go (fouls and rule infractions committed by the other team). Let me insert here that our team works very hard to be good sports and not run up the score. Despite this, in the past two games, players have been injured because the refs allowed the other (frustrated) team get away with fouling. So, as the game goes on, things get even more dangerous for our girls.

As a parent, I implore all of you refs... call the game the same way, no matter what the score, the level or the gender. You aren't helping the losing team to learn to play better soccer by allowing them to get away with fouls, illegal throw ins and substitutions, etc. You certainly aren't protecting the winning team. In fact, you are punishing them for being better than their opponant, AND putting them in danger.

BTW...this happens much more with my daughters' teams than with my son's team.

[Unregistered]

This is an enlightening thread. I have often wondered why my daughters' games differed in officiating from my son's games. These posts give it some perspective.

Another observation I have made recently... My daughter's school team has been dominating their division. Usually, by the second half of the game, the refs begin to let a lot of stuff go (fouls and rule infractions committed by the other team). Let me insert here that our team works very hard to be good sports and not run up the score. Despite this, in the past two games, players have been injured because the refs allowed the other (frustrated) team get away with fouling. So, as the game goes on, things get even more dangerous for our girls.

As a parent, I implore all of you refs... call the game the same way, no matter what the score, the level or the gender. You aren't helping the losing team to learn to play better soccer by allowing them to get away with fouls, illegal throw ins and substitutions, etc. You certainly aren't protecting the winning team. In fact, you are punishing them for being better than their opponant, AND putting them in danger.

BTW...this happens much more with my daughters' teams than with my son's team.

Can I also add that the rules should apply no matter where they occur on the field? A foul is a foul no matter what part of the field it occurs.

[Unregistered]

This is an enlightening thread. I have often wondered why my daughters' games differed in officiating from my son's games. These posts give it some perspective.

Another observation I have made recently... My daughter's school team has been dominating their division. Usually, by the second half of the game, the refs begin to let a lot of stuff go (fouls and rule infractions committed by the other team). Let me insert here that our team works very hard to be good sports and not run up the score. Despite this, in the past two games, players have been injured because the refs allowed the other (frustrated) team get away with fouling. So, as the game goes on, things get even more dangerous for our girls.

As a parent, I implore all of you refs... call the game the same way, no matter what the score, the level or the gender. You aren't helping the losing team to learn to play better soccer by allowing them to get away with fouls, illegal throw ins and substitutions, etc. You certainly aren't protecting the winning team. In fact, you are punishing them for being better than their opponant, AND putting them in danger.

BTW...this happens much more with my daughters' teams than with my son's team.

Can't speak for other refs but my radar is ratcheted up when a game is decided by score and there is alot of time left. especially if they are rival teams. You have to keep your head on a swivel and keep the temperature down. I have ended a number of matches early over the years when I felt like the coaches were unable or unwilling to control their players.

[Unregistered]

witnessed a similar situation this weekend that ended in a serious injury. refs called a tight first 15 minutes and then once they set the "tone", according to the head ref, decided to "let them play". fouls went uncalled and one team started whining. refs, being human, began to favor the other team and call even less, so the pushes and dangerous dives began to escalate. start of second half more of the same. a player clearing the ball kicks it, and after the ball is well away an opposition player that had been challenging recklessly all game cleats above the knee, which because the kicking leg is now planted, totally blows out the entire knee such that the leg is twisted sideways and the player, now in shock, is hurt so badly they're unconscious. when they wake 15 minutes later being placed in the ambulance they begin to writhe in pain and scream.

i agree with the earlier poster. please call the games tight no matter the score. don't just "let them play".

and i know accidents happen. this one would likely have been avoided had the refs just continued to call a tight game like their first 15 minutes.

[Unregistered]

This is an enlightening thread. I have often wondered why my daughters' games differed in officiating from my son's games. These posts give it some perspective.

Another observation I have made recently... My daughter's school team has been dominating their division. Usually, by the second half of the game, the refs begin to let a lot of stuff go (fouls and rule infractions committed by the other team). Let me insert here that our team works very hard to be good sports and not run up the score. Despite this, in the past two games, players have been injured because the refs allowed the other (frustrated) team get away with fouling. So, as the game goes on, things get even more dangerous for our girls.

As a parent, I implore all of you refs... call the game the same way, no matter what the score, the level or the gender. You aren't helping the losing team to learn to play better soccer by allowing them to get away with fouls, illegal throw ins and substitutions, etc. You certainly aren't protecting the winning team. In fact, you are punishing them for being better than their opponant, AND putting them in danger.

BTW...this happens much more with my daughters' teams than with my son's team.




Can I also add that the rules should apply no matter where they occur on the field? A foul is a foul no matter what part of the field it occurs.

I hear your frustration. But trying to be black and white about this will never help.

I was watching a pro american football game the other day. Team returning a punt pulls off one of the best misdirections in the history of the game. Player walks in for a touchdown. Play is called back for a hold that was COMPLETELY irrelevant to the result of the play. This is universally acknowledged as good football refereeing.

Soccer is different. There are many violations of the LOTG that should not draw a whistle. It could be that they are simply trifling, irrelevant, don't match the level of play, disadvantage the attacking team, spoil the flow of the game..... That is not my personal opinion, but the universal standard that soccer referees should be held to.

Now, with that said, that does NOT mean that these violations should not be dealt with. Just because there is no whistle doesn't mean the ref can simply ignore things. I can fully understand (and even applaud) a ref who "lets a foul-throw go" in a 4-0 game (simply because it's irrelevant) or doesn't call a marginal push in the box for a PK to decide a 0-0 game. But that's a long way from simply getting lazy because the score is lopsided. Especially if player safety is endangered. That can NEVER be tolerated.



One final, kind of related, thought. The idea that the ref is responsible for "teaching" players certain habits is very common among those whose only experience with soccer is lower-level youth. And it has some validity there. Especially since, many times, the ref may be the most experienced "soccer person" at the field. The ref may even be "teaching" the coach!!! But this concept has a very short shelf-life. At higher level youth, and certainly anything beyond that, a referee who thinks he has the authority to teach anything is playing with fire. That is the coach's job. Period.

[Unregistered]

witnessed a similar situation this weekend that ended in a serious injury. refs called a tight first 15 minutes and then once they set the "tone", according to the head ref, decided to "let them play". fouls went uncalled and one team started whining. refs, being human, began to favor the other team and call even less, so the pushes and dangerous dives began to escalate. start of second half more of the same. a player clearing the ball kicks it, and after the ball is well away an opposition player that had been challenging recklessly all game cleats above the knee, which because the kicking leg is now planted, totally blows out the entire knee such that the leg is twisted sideways and the player, now in shock, is hurt so badly they're unconscious. when they wake 15 minutes later being placed in the ambulance they begin to writhe in pain and scream.

i agree with the earlier poster. please call the games tight no matter the score. don't just "let them play".

and i know accidents happen. this one would likely have been avoided had the refs just continued to call a tight game like their first 15 minutes.

I feel terrible for this player, and, of course, I wasn't there....

"cleats above the knee"
That is not "letting them play".
That is letting them play with nuclear weapons.

Just because someone uses an expression they might have read in a HOW TO refereeing book, that doesn't mean they are acting like a responsible referee.