Onthree,Fred,Cujo,need a little advice on what constitutes crossing the line for a H.S. coach.What are the rules for contact between a coach and a player over the summer?Can a player be punished for not playing in a H.S. league over the summer?Rules on Captains practice?Not trying to start the annual H.S. vs. Club thread, was hoping this situation would go away but it seems to be getting to the point where I may have to step in and would like to know whats allowed and what is not.
-
-
Sounds like the issue is more about the peer pressure most programs exert to get athletes to participate in these summer activities and less about what is permissable under the MIAA. If this is in fact true I think you will find that your attempts to fight the situation will create a social backlash for your athlete. Tough situation. -
I'm interested in this topic too -- any HS coaches out there?
Our HS coach made clear at the intro meeting earlier this month that he would not be able to be in contact with them or watch any practices or anything until the official start date at end of August. I have heard he really sticks by that policy.
Also how do the "Captains practices" actually work? Does every player who signed up to play soccer somehow get an invitation to these or are they supposed to find out through the grapevine, or do the captains just invite who they want to?Comment
-
MIAA strictly states that coaches are not to have any meaningful contact with their specific team outside of the season. This includes captains practices, weight room, leagues, etc.. Does it still happen? You betcha, but it is never overt. Usually captains practices are organized by the captains during the summer months. These vary school to school and according to MIAA can NEVER be considered as official and cannot either help or hurt a player for placement on the HS team in the fall. Of my two sons both of them have heard about summer practices through the captains. My first one used to see about 14-15 kids each session. My second boy (years later at the same school) saw around 5 players at each practice. It really does depend on the school. Also, even though coaches are not supposed to be involved many are still in the background. My first son did have the coach do a "walk through" at many of these unofficial practices. This is a NO, NO, but happens more than you think. The second coach for my younger son never showed his face until the first official practice.Originally posted by AnonymousComment
-
Correct that the HS coach is not supposed to have contact out of season with his/her HS team. Some coaches do come in contact with their kids during camps, Bay State games or via events at their club during the summer but do this as a member of the club, camp or Bay State games. but I am not aware of any organized attempt to do more than that with the HS team as a groupin my circle. But if a player is coached by the same coach in HS and club there can be a lot of interaction with the player coach in various traning session, pick up games and summer tournaments.
Every town's captain's practices are run differently based on the town custom and the particular captains. Where I am from there are summer pick-up leagues for HS age players and they play a set schedule with 15 or so of the surrounding towns. In our town the invites go out to all on the distribution list of the returning varsity, JV and frosh teams and 8th graders are welcome but need identify themselves to get on the list. In practicality most of the players turn out to be incoming frosh and older players who feel they need the boost their ability to make the team. The coach does send out an email making people aware of the summer league but not more than that. The attendance usually is between 14 and 35-40 for the various games.
Other towns do it differently - one town only invites the players who are on varsity and likely to make vartsity. They in effect play with each other all summer and usually have great HS seasons.Comment
-
Re: MIAA Rules
The short answer is no a coach cannot be involved in any way in a captains practice or any organized activity in any practice or game that includes more than 50% of their bonafide players. They cannot sit in the stands and observe a capts practice. They can attend summer league games as a fan. Nor can they punish players for not playing in summer leagues or attending captains practice. You can contact your players during the summer to check in with them and let them know what the August schedule is going to be (i.e first practice dates, get your physical etc etc) but you cannot direct them as to what you want them to do. You cannot even give them a training regimen. You get around that by meeting with your team after the season and letting them know what is expected in terms of conditioning prior to the start of the following season.Originally posted by soccerlimo
Now here is reality. For players on the cusp of starting and/or making the team, avoiding captains practices and not picking up a soccer ball from November to August is a sure way to get cut. As a coach I never took into account whether they attended capts practices or not and I never asked who showed up or didnt just how many showed up if my Capts called me to chat. I always ran my teams are pure meritocracies. The best 11 started regardless of age or past experience with me or whether I went to the family cookouts over the summer. The next 3 to 4 got spot duty based on game situations, injuries, playing system considerations etc. The last several spots were players who chose to be on the team but knew playing time would be limited. I had a number of players on my team who worked 50 hours a week as life guards and camp counselors and could not participate in anything. To hold that against them would be unethical and unfair on my part.
That being said there are many coaches that I am aware of that either willfully or via ignorance violated the MIAA rules and it really sucked. They had an unfair edge on those of us who played by the rules and it always left parents wondering if their kid got cut because they went on family vacation in early August. The coaches skirted the ethical line so delicately that their was enough gray area to make it hard to tell what actually happened.
I worked closely with a coach in the Middlesex league and I swapped teams during the summer. I would train his kids and he would train mine or coach them the same way indoors. Our MAPLE teams were usually made up of kids from 4 to 5 high schools. Since the ratio of our players was under 50% we both could be on the sidelines. In the odd occassion that the numbers did not work out one of us would go stand on the parents side. You never know who is watching.Comment
-
My Capts would contact all the players they knew were interested. I would also talk to prospective incoming students and answer questions during our school's two open houses and introduce them to the Capts. Because I coached town soccer from one of the towns that we drew players from - many of the parents and players knew me anyway.Originally posted by AnonymousComment
-
Re: MIAA Rules
You cannot even give them a training regimen. You get around that by meeting with your team after the season and letting them know what is expected in terms of conditioning prior to the start of the following season.
I actually thought this was one thing that MIAA allowed you to do as a coach, provide the players with a conditioning program for over the summer to help them get in shape for highschool season.
what if the captains ask for help with conditioning?Comment
-
Re: MIAA Rules
I should clarify. You can provide them with a training program but cannot require it. If a player initiates a phone call I am not aware of any rule that prohibits you from speaking with them.Originally posted by AnonymousComment
-
Thank you Cujo.Comment
-
You are welcome - good luck this season..........Originally posted by soccerlimoComment
-
I've scanned this thread, and it looks like the original question has been answered accurately.
Here's another thought: Find out whether the high school coach really "punishes" student-athletes for opting not to participate in high school summer league and/or captains' practices. In years past, I have heard about how the coach at my town's high school picks the varsity. I have heard that a player must play high school summer league and must attend the "prep camp" that is held the week before try-outs. Thing is, I'm the coach, and I have never picked my team based on participation in off-season activity! So, sometimes the best thing to do is to speak directly with the coach to get the straight scoop. If your high school coach says that participation in off-season activity is REQUIRED, then you have a reason to speak with the athletic director and/or the MIAA.
Bottom line: If the coach follows the rules as defined by the MIAA, there should be no issue. IMO, coaches (at schools governed by the MIAA) who take notes on clipboards at high school summer league games or who take attendance at captains' practices or conditioning sessions are bullies.A. CarrilloComment
-
Sometimes it is parents that spread these rumours. The reality is that the players that are the most motivated and dedicated to soccer are more likely to participate in these activities and are therefore the better players and more likely to make the team and / or start. When I took over the HS team where I formerly coached, I had junior and seniors that did zero work in the offseason that came into training camp out of shape and not having touched a soccer ball for 8 months. Some got cut - some got limited playing time. The parents of these players were P.O.'d that they gotten beaten out for starting slots by hungrier and to be frank, underclassmen who were much better players. The fact that this happened had nothing to do with capts practices or summer leagues. As I stated earlier, my HS teams were a pure meritocracy. You earned your slot each year. To the untrained - unobjective eye of the parents there appeared to be a connection to the off-season activity while in fact, none existed.Originally posted by onthreeComment
-
Sometimes it is parents that spread these rumours. The reality is that the players that are the most motivated and dedicated to soccer are more likely to participate in these activities and are therefore the better players and more likely to make the team and / or start. When I took over the HS team where I formerly coached, I had junior and seniors that did zero work in the offseason that came into training camp out of shape and not having touched a soccer ball for 8 months. Some got cut - some got limited playing time. The parents of these players were P.O.'d that they gotten beaten out for starting slots by hungrier and to be frank, underclassmen who were much better players. The fact that this happened had nothing to do with capts practices or summer leagues. As I stated earlier, my HS teams were a pure meritocracy. You earned your slot each year. To the untrained - unobjective eye of the parents there appeared to be a connection to the off-season activity while in fact, none existed.
[quote:2oynpfou]
onthree wrote:
I've scanned this thread, and it looks like the original question has been answered accurately.
Here's another thought: Find out whether the high school coach really "punishes" student-athletes for opting not to participate in high school summer league and/or captains' practices. In years past, I have heard about how the coach at my town's high school picks the varsity. I have heard that a player must play high school summer league and must attend the "prep camp" that is held the week before try-outs. Thing is, I'm the coach, and I have never picked my team based on participation in off-season activity! So, sometimes the best thing to do is to speak directly with the coach to get the straight scoop. If your high school coach says that participation in off-season activity is REQUIRED, then you have a reason to speak with the athletic director and/or the MIAA.
Bottom line: If the coach follows the rules as defined by the MIAA, there should be no issue. IMO, coaches (at schools governed by the MIAA) who take notes on clipboards at high school summer league games or who take attendance at captains' practices or conditioning sessions are bullies.
[/quote:2oynpfou]
I with Cujo on this one. It's not so much the attendance but quality of work that the player put in during the offseason. I seriously doubt a coach will have much negative to say to an athlete who comes into camp knowing their assignments and in shape. About the only thing that could be criticized would be their lack of participation in the team building that is a big part of these summer activites. That said, I myself would almost always choose the player who came into camp in shape over one who went to the workouts and wasted their time there.Comment
-
Right on.A. CarrilloComment
Comment