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06-21-2007, 08:17 AM
The movement of players and teams is not just a Massachusetts thing.

Welcome Valley United Boys 91 to the Real So Cal Family
Jun 07 2007 - Scott Murray




The Valley United Blast Boys 91 are now part of the Real So Cal Family. They bring an amazing record of winning to an already strong boys side. Led by CYSA-S head coach of the year Julio Castillo and manager Ricardo Argueta, the FOUR time National Cup champions and recent Manchester United Cup champions and defending USYSA National Champions will be representing Real So Cal in the upcoming U-16 season. The next stop for the boys will be regionals in June and they will represent USA in July at the Manchester United Premier Cup 2007 World Boys Finals in either Malaysia or Manchester, England. The boys will compete for a world t!tle against the likes of Real Madrid, Ajax, Arsenal, FC Porto, and Manchester United. We wish them the best of luck in what will be a long summer for them culminating with hopefully another USYS National Championship.

2004 BU12 National Cup & Far West Regional Champions
2005 BU13 National Cup & Far West Regional Champions
2006 BU14 National Cup, Far West Regional Champions, National Champions
2007 BU15 National Cup Champions
2007 Manchester United Cup Champions

Cujo
06-21-2007, 08:27 AM
The movement of players and teams is not just a Massachusetts thing.

Welcome Valley United Boys 91 to the Real So Cal Family
Jun 07 2007 - Scott Murray




The Valley United Blast Boys 91 are now part of the Real So Cal Family. They bring an amazing record of winning to an already strong boys side. Led by CYSA-S head coach of the year Julio Castillo and manager Ricardo Argueta, the FOUR time National Cup champions and recent Manchester United Cup champions and defending USYSA National Champions will be representing Real So Cal in the upcoming U-16 season. The next stop for the boys will be regionals in June and they will represent USA in July at the Manchester United Premier Cup 2007 World Boys Finals in either Malaysia or Manchester, England. The boys will compete for a world t!tle against the likes of Real Madrid, Ajax, Arsenal, FC Porto, and Manchester United. We wish them the best of luck in what will be a long summer for them culminating with hopefully another USYS National Championship.

2004 BU12 National Cup & Far West Regional Champions
2005 BU13 National Cup & Far West Regional Champions
2006 BU14 National Cup, Far West Regional Champions, National Champions
2007 BU15 National Cup Champions
2007 Manchester United Cup Champions

My experience is that player loyalty to a coach and teammates far exceeds any loyalty to a club. Most of the kids that I have coached are not too concerned about which club they play for. It is pretty far down the list.

06-21-2007, 10:47 AM
The movement of players and teams is not just a Massachusetts thing.

Welcome Valley United Boys 91 to the Real So Cal Family
Jun 07 2007 - Scott Murray




The Valley United Blast Boys 91 are now part of the Real So Cal Family. They bring an amazing record of winning to an already strong boys side. Led by CYSA-S head coach of the year Julio Castillo and manager Ricardo Argueta, the FOUR time National Cup champions and recent Manchester United Cup champions and defending USYSA National Champions will be representing Real So Cal in the upcoming U-16 season. The next stop for the boys will be regionals in June and they will represent USA in July at the Manchester United Premier Cup 2007 World Boys Finals in either Malaysia or Manchester, England. The boys will compete for a world t!tle against the likes of Real Madrid, Ajax, Arsenal, FC Porto, and Manchester United. We wish them the best of luck in what will be a long summer for them culminating with hopefully another USYS National Championship.

2004 BU12 National Cup & Far West Regional Champions
2005 BU13 National Cup & Far West Regional Champions
2006 BU14 National Cup, Far West Regional Champions, National Champions
2007 BU15 National Cup Champions
2007 Manchester United Cup Champions

My experience is that player loyalty to a coach and teammates far exceeds any loyalty to a club. Most of the kids that I have coached are not too concerned about which club they play for. It is pretty far down the list.

The poster formerly known as FSM often quotes the dad from Chicago. Here's his take on changes in Chi-Town:

Chicago has plenty of competition too, of course not as much as SoCal, but a lot. Yet I've never heard of a Magic, Sockers, Wind etc. team just picking up and leaving. The club comes first, the coach comes second. Last year, for example the coach of a State Cup finalist Wind team left for Magic. He was very popular with Wind parents ... but not a single player followed him.

Red99
06-21-2007, 10:59 AM
Maybe because they have a whole host of quality coaches at the club to take his place? If only we could all be so fortunate.

Also, can't help but notice all those "National Cup" championship accolades in the press release. Who do they think they are?! ;)

FSM
06-21-2007, 02:20 PM
The poster formerly known as FSM often quotes the dad from Chicago. Here's his take on changes in Chi-Town:

Chicago has plenty of competition too, of course not as much as SoCal, but a lot. Yet I've never heard of a Magic, Sockers, Wind etc. team just picking up and leaving. The club comes first, the coach comes second. Last year, for example the coach of a State Cup finalist Wind team left for Magic. He was very popular with Wind parents ... but not a single player followed him.

I think it is important to include everything Chicago dad had to say on the subject, including the context to which it was said.

It's not uncommon. Just this year in this age group alone, one third of the CSL (Coastal Sosccer League of So Cal)) Premier League teams are at different clubs than last year.

The big issue is that most of them are not true clubs, rather labels/uniforms that are attached to teams.

Chicago has plenty of competition too, of course not as much as SoCal, but a lot. Yet I've never heard of a Magic, Sockers, Wind etc. team just picking up and leaving. The club comes first, the coach comes second. Last year, for example the coach of a State Cup finalist Wind team left for Magic. He was very popular with Wind parents ... but not a single player followed him.

Do you have any ideas why you Mid Westerners remain loyal to club first?

Don't know. Would need to know how other areas work.

I can tell you how it goes here, though. The coaches rotate. You have a coach for 1 year, maybe 2. Then the club assigns a new coach. You might like the new coach better than the current guy, or worse. If the answer is worse, well that's OK you'll get another one in a year or two later anyway.

Do that, and run a pool system whereby different coaches fill in for training sessions or even matches, and you don't get this situation where the coach and the team is joined at the hip.

Personally, I can't imagine following a coach. Either you'll just have another coach in a year or two anyway, so why bothering following him, or you won't, in which case you didn't join a real club that has depth, you are following a single guy and basing all your hopes on his availability. I would say, that's how most people here would look at the issue.

Of course, teams do move on occasion. One did so to get the hell away from their coach, who was also DOC. Team moved lock, stock, and barrel to a rival club. The team manager's other son was no longer welcome at the original club.

And a response from So Cal:

This is the way it's supposed to work at a lot of So. Cal. clubs too. In practice, it's different, successful coaches are reluctant to give up their good teams (gotta build that résumé). And the demand for good coaches is very high, so the DOC's tend to give in to them. It doesn't help that the DOCs tend not to want to tinker with a successful team (winning teams make the club look good).

This is why we really need this switch to the academies. The incentives are all wrong for player development as it is now.

My comment, having experienced the system of coaches changing every year, it is a very good one, but it must be started with the youngest teams. I also wonder if this type of system hasn't contributed to the loyalty MPS receives from players and parents involved with that club.

06-21-2007, 02:27 PM
Maybe because they have a whole host of quality coaches at the club to take his place? If only we could all be so fortunate.

Also, can't help but notice all those "National Cup" championship accolades in the press release. Who do they think they are?! ;)

Chicago players and teams move around often, just like everywhere else.

mathman
06-21-2007, 04:10 PM
Maybe because they have a whole host of quality coaches at the club to take his place? If only we could all be so fortunate.

Also, can't help but notice all those "National Cup" championship accolades in the press release. Who do they think they are?! ;)

Make sure you understand SoCal-speak. National Cup is what we would call State Cup. What they call State Cup is something less than that. Sort of like MTOC, but not really.

So all they are saying is that they were state champions.

06-21-2007, 04:18 PM
It's Red99 not logged in -- yes, I did know that -- that was my point, that everyone loves that "NATIONAL" name in their PR, whether it's truly national or not. And it isn't just the clubs around here that everyone complains about doing it!

06-21-2007, 05:06 PM
[quote="FSM
My comment, having experienced the system of coaches changing every year, it is a very good one, but it must be started with the youngest teams. I also wonder if this type of system hasn't contributed to the loyalty MPS receives from players and parents involved with that club.[/quote]

FSM,
If this is your opinion, why move to the Stars? That is not their policy. Do you think that it is already too late at U15 to gain the benefit from that situation for your daughter?

06-21-2007, 09:24 PM
The poster formerly known as FSM often quotes the dad from Chicago. Here's his take on changes in Chi-Town:

[quote]Chicago has plenty of competition too, of course not as much as SoCal, but a lot. Yet I've never heard of a Magic, Sockers, Wind etc. team just picking up and leaving. The club comes first, the coach comes second. Last year, for example the coach of a State Cup finalist Wind team left for Magic. He was very popular with Wind parents ... but not a single player followed him.

I think it is important to include everything Chicago dad had to say on the subject, including the context to which it was said.

It's not uncommon. Just this year in this age group alone, one third of the CSL (Coastal Sosccer League of So Cal)) Premier League teams are at different clubs than last year.

The big issue is that most of them are not true clubs, rather labels/uniforms that are attached to teams.

Chicago has plenty of competition too, of course not as much as SoCal, but a lot. Yet I've never heard of a Magic, Sockers, Wind etc. team just picking up and leaving. The club comes first, the coach comes second. Last year, for example the coach of a State Cup finalist Wind team left for Magic. He was very popular with Wind parents ... but not a single player followed him.

Do you have any ideas why you Mid Westerners remain loyal to club first?

Don't know. Would need to know how other areas work.

I can tell you how it goes here, though. The coaches rotate. You have a coach for 1 year, maybe 2. Then the club assigns a new coach. You might like the new coach better than the current guy, or worse. If the answer is worse, well that's OK you'll get another one in a year or two later anyway.

Do that, and run a pool system whereby different coaches fill in for training sessions or even matches, and you don't get this situation where the coach and the team is joined at the hip.

Personally, I can't imagine following a coach. Either you'll just have another coach in a year or two anyway, so why bothering following him, or you won't, in which case you didn't join a real club that has depth, you are following a single guy and basing all your hopes on his availability. I would say, that's how most people here would look at the issue.

Of course, teams do move on occasion. One did so to get the hell away from their coach, who was also DOC. Team moved lock, stock, and barrel to a rival club. The team manager's other son was no longer welcome at the original club.

And a response from So Cal:

This is the way it's supposed to work at a lot of So. Cal. clubs too. In practice, it's different, successful coaches are reluctant to give up their good teams (gotta build that résumé). And the demand for good coaches is very high, so the DOC's tend to give in to them. It doesn't help that the DOCs tend not to want to tinker with a successful team (winning teams make the club look good).

This is why we really need this switch to the academies. The incentives are all wrong for player development as it is now.

My comment, having experienced the system of coaches changing every year, it is a very good one, but it must be started with the youngest teams. I also wonder if this type of system hasn't contributed to the loyalty MPS receives from players and parents involved with that club.[/quote:39qbwtp6]

Oh yeah. Of course we would want that because they are responses to her question.

The one quote was sufficient, thanks.

FSM
06-22-2007, 08:22 AM
My comment, having experienced the system of coaches changing every year, it is a very good one, but it must be started with the youngest teams. I also wonder if this type of system hasn't contributed to the loyalty MPS receives from players and parents involved with that club.

FSM,
If this is your opinion, why move to the Stars? That is not their policy. Do you think that it is already too late at U15 to gain the benefit from that situation for your daughter?

As I said you have to start with the younger teams. I don't believe you will convince parents that have 4 or 5 year of the old system, that this new one will work, particularly when they have seen teams with the same coach doing well.

06-22-2007, 09:23 AM
My comment, having experienced the system of coaches changing every year, it is a very good one, but it must be started with the youngest teams. I also wonder if this type of system hasn't contributed to the loyalty MPS receives from players and parents involved with that club.

FSM,
If this is your opinion, why move to the Stars? That is not their policy. Do you think that it is already too late at U15 to gain the benefit from that situation for your daughter?

As I said you have to start with the younger teams. I don't believe you will convince parents that have 4 or 5 year of the old system, that this new one will work, particularly when they have seen teams with the same coach doing well.

FSM, I guess that includes you now. I now view your past professarial opinions with grain of salt

06-22-2007, 09:41 AM
Yes, she always changes her tune when it fit's her current situation.

Blue Devil
06-22-2007, 10:43 AM
why all the anonymous shots at FSM?

06-22-2007, 10:48 AM
Yes, she always changes her tune when it fit's her current situation.

You Guests are so funny! Or stupid, I'm not sure which. Of course she changes her tune to fit her current situation. That may be due to the fact that her daughter is now a U15 not a U11 and the situation needs changing. Duh!

06-22-2007, 11:20 AM
why all the anonymous shots at FSM?

Perhaps it has something to do with the hypocritical and disingenuous comments?

Blue Devil
06-22-2007, 11:28 AM
I guess we read the same postings differently - seems like she has been pretty open with her postings. I have disagreed with her on multiple occasions and haven't detected any hypocrisy or disingenuousness.

Can you maybe list some examples of what you mean by hypocrisy or disingenuousness?

Seabiscuit
06-22-2007, 11:31 AM
why all the anonymous shots at FSM?

Perhaps it has something to do with the hypocritical and disingenuous comments?

We get it - you hate/disagree with/look down on/have no use for/are offended by/abhor/find insufferable FSM.

She's in the midst of trying to find the right place for her 13/14 year daughter right now, at this age, with a variety of circumstances going on, so that's what she's doing, and trying to fit the decision to the best set of circumstances given the family's overall philospophy on soccer and her teenage daughter's concern's, fears, desires.

Lighten up, you can dislike her all you want but she doesn't have to respond to you if she doesn't want to. She may pontificate but at the end of the day, it's a personal decision that best fits the million circumstances swirling around. You don't have to be such a bully (and an anonymous one at that), although I don't think FSM needs anyone standing up for her.

The point is, there is a kid involved, so don't project your distaste for FSM and whatever various theories she's put forth over the years onto her child.

06-22-2007, 11:34 AM
why all the anonymous shots at FSM?

Perhaps it has something to do with the hypocritical and disingenuous comments?

We get it - you hate/disagree with/look down on/have no use for/are offended by/abhor/find insufferable FSM.

Lighten up, you can dislike her all you want but she doesn't have to respond to you if she doesn't want to. She may pontificate but at the end of the day, it's a personal decision that best fits the million circumstances swirling around. You don't have to be such a bully (and an anonymous one at that), although I don't think FSM needs anyone standing up for her.

The point is, there is a kid involved, so don't project your distaste for FSM and whatever various theories she's put forth over the years onto her child.

This is an exaggeration, and your comments resemble something that would drop out of the back end of Seabiscuit.

Much of what she posted on the old forum I agreed with. The credibility is gone based on what she's posted here.

Seabiscuit
06-22-2007, 11:39 AM
Real classy.

Seabiscuit
06-22-2007, 11:41 AM
I guess we read the same postings differently - seems like she has been pretty open with her postings. I have disagreed with her on multiple occasions and haven't detected any hypocrisy or disingenuousness.

Can you maybe list some examples of what you mean by hypocrisy or disingenuousness?

and the examples are....????

06-22-2007, 11:53 AM
Real classy.

A horse is a horse, of course, of course,
And no one can talk to a horse of course
That is, of course, unless the horse is the famous Mr. Ed.

Go right to the source and ask the horse
He'll give you the answer that you'll endorse.
He's always on a steady course.
Talk to Mr. Ed.

People yakkity yak a streak and waste your time of day
But Mister Ed will never speak unless he has something to say.

A horse is a horse, of course, of course,
And this one'll talk 'til his voice is hoarse.
You never heard of a talking horse?

Well listen to this. I am Mister Ed.

FSM
06-22-2007, 01:38 PM
My comment, having experienced the system of coaches changing every year, it is a very good one, but it must be started with the youngest teams. I also wonder if this type of system hasn't contributed to the loyalty MPS receives from players and parents involved with that club.

FSM,
If this is your opinion, why move to the Stars? That is not their policy. Do you think that it is already too late at U15 to gain the benefit from that situation for your daughter?

As I said you have to start with the younger teams. I don't believe you will convince parents that have 4 or 5 year of the old system, that this new one will work, particularly when they have seen teams with the same coach doing well.

FSM, I guess that includes you now. I now view your past professarial opinions with grain of salt

Whatever. :roll:

To the original question, do I think it would be beneficial at U15? I do think it can be beneficial, but here's the problem once kids reach HS age. HS impacts the amount of time the club coach has with his/her team, so if I were a club contemplating a rotation of coaches, I'd probably have teams with coaches for 1 year through U13 and then have coaches U14 and up with the same coach for 2 year periods.

And for all you hit and run posters who obviously have an IQ of 10 - IT HAS TO BE PART OF A STRUCTURED CLUB PLAN, not something thought up spur of the moment. That means you have to have a curriculum in place, you have to have coaches that buy in and support the same philosophy, and you have to educate parents to the system. There has to be continuity and good organization. People (parents, players and even coaches) tend to want stability and view it in terms of having the same coach with the same team from year to year. It's up to the club to have them see stability in terms of a club training philosophy.

06-22-2007, 01:45 PM
My comment, having experienced the system of coaches changing every year, it is a very good one, but it must be started with the youngest teams. I also wonder if this type of system hasn't contributed to the loyalty MPS receives from players and parents involved with that club.

FSM,
If this is your opinion, why move to the Stars? That is not their policy. Do you think that it is already too late at U15 to gain the benefit from that situation for your daughter?

As I said you have to start with the younger teams. I don't believe you will convince parents that have 4 or 5 year of the old system, that this new one will work, particularly when they have seen teams with the same coach doing well.

FSM, I guess that includes you now. I now view your past professarial opinions with grain of salt

Whatever. :roll:

To the original question, do I think it would be beneficial at U15? I do think it can be beneficial, but here's the problem once kids reach HS age. HS impacts the amount of time the club coach has with his/her team, so if I were a club contemplating a rotation of coaches, I'd probably have teams with coaches for 1 year through U13 and then have coaches U14 and up with the same coach for 2 year periods.

And for all you hit and run posters who obviously have an IQ of 10 - IT HAS TO BE PART OF A STRUCTURED CLUB PLAN, not something thought up spur of the moment. That means you have to have a curriculum in place, you have to have coaches that buy in and support the same philosophy, and you have to educate parents to the system. There has to be continuity and good organization. People (parents, players and even coaches) tend to want stability and view it in terms of having the same coach with the same team from year to year. It's up to the club to have them see stability in terms of a club training philosophy.

Well, stability is a little difficult when your coaches are looking to leave a club, isn't it?

And what you describe seems to pretty accurately describe MPS.

FSM
06-22-2007, 01:52 PM
Well, stability is a little difficult when your coaches are looking to leave a club, isn't it?

This might be news to you Bones, but coaches do move around. Which is the whole point of a system that rotates coaches !!! Establishing loyalty to club over loyalty to coaches.

I'd be happy to provide you with the trails of some of the more commonly known coaches if you'd like. I can go back as far as 1995. Just name one or two.

And what you describe seems to pretty accurately describe MPS.

I did make the comment wondering if this has contributed to the loyalty toward MPS of families involved with the club.

06-22-2007, 02:20 PM
Well, stability is a little difficult when your coaches are looking to leave a club, isn't it?

This might be news to you Bones, but coaches do move around. Which is the whole point of a system that rotates coaches !!! Establishing loyalty to club over loyalty to coaches.

I'd be happy to provide you with the trails of some of the more commonly known coaches if you'd like. I can go back as far as 1995. Just name one or two.

And what you describe seems to pretty accurately describe MPS.

I did make the comment wondering if this has contributed to the loyalty toward MPS of families involved with the club.

Thanks, but if I want news, I'll go to a news source.

I expect coaches to move within clubs. But when they are leaving clubs to go to another, that doesn't promote stability.

While others might be impressed with your abilities to monitor the movement of coaches, I am not.

You want stability and club atmosphere. Yet you're more than happy to justify to all of us why a coach would leave and take his players.

FSM
06-22-2007, 02:32 PM
Come on Bones. You make a statement, but you can't support it. I can. Don't criticize me for that. Many clubs have been started by coaches who have left other clubs. A whole group left Juventus to start Puma and then some left Puma to start FC United. It happens all the time. If clubs have a problem with it, then they are the ones that need to change the system.

06-22-2007, 03:23 PM
Come on Bones. You make a statement, but you can't support it. I can. Don't criticize me for that. Many clubs have been started by coaches who have left other clubs. A whole group left Juventus to start Puma and then some left Puma to start FC United. It happens all the time. If clubs have a problem with it, then they are the ones that need to change the system.

To quote a famous poster.......
Whatever :roll:

Tough to have a discussion with somoene who takes 2 positions on an issue.

Here's something we can agree on:
I really like stability when it changes it all the time too! :smt073

FSM
06-22-2007, 05:13 PM
Come on Bones. You make a statement, but you can't support it. I can. Don't criticize me for that. Many clubs have been started by coaches who have left other clubs. A whole group left Juventus to start Puma and then some left Puma to start FC United. It happens all the time. If clubs have a problem with it, then they are the ones that need to change the system.

To quote a famous poster.......
Whatever :roll:

Tough to have a discussion with somoene who takes 2 positions on an issue.

Here's something we can agree on:
I really like stability when it changes it all the time too! :smt073

Don't pretend that you want a discussion Bones. If you did, you'd be able to support your points. Obviously you can't.

06-22-2007, 08:09 PM
Come on Bones. You make a statement, but you can't support it. I can. Don't criticize me for that. Many clubs have been started by coaches who have left other clubs. A whole group left Juventus to start Puma and then some left Puma to start FC United. It happens all the time. If clubs have a problem with it, then they are the ones that need to change the system.

To quote a famous poster.......
Whatever :roll:

Tough to have a discussion with somoene who takes 2 positions on an issue.

Here's something we can agree on:
I really like stability when it changes it all the time too! :smt073

Don't pretend that you want a discussion Bones. If you did, you'd be able to support your points. Obviously you can't.

Can you spell "hypocrisy"

Red99
06-22-2007, 08:57 PM
This guest is obviously just trying to stir up trouble.

So what if what FSM describes as a positive thing is like MPS structure, she's always supported MPS structure and philosophy in general but for one reason or another hasn't ever put her kid there (to my knowledge). It doesn't mean she must automatically make that call today and place her kid there because she says something good about the club! Other clubs might have the right combination of factors for her own kid, including similar enough qualities to MPS for what is right for her daughter.

It's hard going to a new team/club at any age, there are way too many factors to take into consideration -- this guest/bones argument (if there is actually one beyond name-calling) is just ridiculous.

It (guest/Bones that is) has been asked several times to offer examples yet all that comes back is words (hooray, it can spell "hypocrisy!") and song lyrics (not sure what is a scarier notion - that guest/bones knew the lyrics to a TV song from the 60s or actually looked them up to post here). anyway, I make a motion we all ignore this guest/bones (or both if they are more than one) in this thread because the circles are making me queasy, I would guess the same is true for others as well.

06-22-2007, 09:02 PM
Come on Bones. You make a statement, but you can't support it. I can. Don't criticize me for that. Many clubs have been started by coaches who have left other clubs. A whole group left Juventus to start Puma and then some left Puma to start FC United. It happens all the time. If clubs have a problem with it, then they are the ones that need to change the system.

To quote a famous poster.......
Whatever :roll:

Tough to have a discussion with somoene who takes 2 positions on an issue.

Here's something we can agree on:
I really like stability when it changes it all the time too! :smt073

Don't pretend that you want a discussion Bones. If you did, you'd be able to support your points. Obviously you can't.

I am only supporting one point. You have more opinions on this subject than Linda Blair had personalities in The Exorcist.

Your former and current coach not only convinced a majority of girls to follow him to the Stars, he also managed to convince many families to bring younger siblings as well to help fill out various Stars rosters. What little nuggets of BS will you foist upon us all to justify this classy act of stability for the kids at an important stage in their development?

Red99
06-22-2007, 09:09 PM
Really showing your age now, Bones. Linda Blair??

I'm already breaking my ignore-you rule, but since I'm on the forum right now.....

NOW the truth starts creeping out about your agenda. You have some sort of grudge against someone, and don't go spouting about how a "differing opinion always gets attacked on this forum as an axe to grind" because clearly you do.

Okay, now I start the ignoring part.

06-23-2007, 05:27 AM
I think Bones is challenging the authenticity of FSM historical opinions and preachings in light of a turncoat move to the stars. Does this action promote a better development model? So what FSM advice do we follow today? What model should we now follow? Colorado Rush? MPS? Is it now the Stars? Maybe the new lesson is to just follow your daughters coach were ever he goes and not worry about how this may undermine a club and their mission to develop players.

06-23-2007, 06:02 AM
With all the FSM bashing, could her 15 year old daughter have had some imput in choosing what team she wants to play for?

06-23-2007, 06:12 AM
My child is certainly allowed to pick what team she want to play on. We guide and discuss what we think is best but ultimately the decision is hers. She has to want to play with the girls on the team and the coach obviously is extremely important. That needs to be a good match. We want her comfortable with her team and coach but also challenged along the way.

06-23-2007, 07:57 AM
It's onthree:
I'm getting nervous about the idea that if one gets the Mr. Ed and Linda Blair reference, then one is too old to post on this forum! I'll get you, my pretty...and your little dog, too!

06-23-2007, 08:00 AM
With all the FSM bashing, could her 15 year old daughter have had some imput in choosing what team she wants to play for?

Absolutely!

But the post immediately above yours does really sum it up for me.

keeper
06-23-2007, 09:00 AM
It's onthree:
I'm getting nervous about the idea that if one gets the Mr. Ed and Linda Blair reference, then one is too old to post on this forum! I'll get you, my pretty...and your little dog, too!

Don't worry too much, they still show all of those on the Classic Channel. ;) ;)


FSM has been posting for years, always advocating for the betterment of youth soccer. Whether you agree or disagree with her positions, her effort and passion on the subject has been consistent, constructive and unselfish.

Guest/Bones/Wilber on the other hand, is a Parent or Bolts official that has only posted to single out and attack FSM for a situation that is common in Club soccer. Being too cowardly to post under a registered identity and while pretending to be different people in order to strengthen their personal and childish attacks, Guest/Bones/Wilber has demonstrated their true character. Obviously, Guest/Bones/Wilber did not like the change at the Bolts and resents the players for wanting to move with the Coach. But instead of discussing the issues that instigated the change, Guest/Bones/Wilber has decided to use this forum to single out and attack FSM. It is a pathetic display of immaturity. Surely there were better opportunities to air objections or opinions about the change before the final decision was made. Or, perhaps the value of Guest/Bones/Wilber opinions were discounted due to the same lack of integrity that has been on display in this thread.

What propelled a Coach to change Clubs or what drives a team to leave en mass are topics worthy of discussion. It’s too bad Guest/Bones/Wilber couldn’t handle a more productive debate.




.

06-23-2007, 10:13 AM
This is all so much spin. Some write or express themselves better than others, but it's still just spin to support what one currently wants. Yes, this includes all the regular posters. I don't see anything credible or enlightening.
If you want the facts on any of these issues to make a reasoned decision or judgment, go to the source and see for yourself then talk to someone whose judgment is trustworthy. You're not going to be enlightened here. There are usually agendas at play when it comes to player or coach defections. To advertise otherwise adds to the credibility gap.

06-23-2007, 10:27 AM
It's onthree:
I'm getting nervous about the idea that if one gets the Mr. Ed and Linda Blair reference, then one is too old to post on this forum! I'll get you, my pretty...and your little dog, too!

Don't worry too much, they still show all of those on the Classic Channel. ;) ;)


FSM has been posting for years, always advocating for the betterment of youth soccer. Whether you agree or disagree with her positions, her effort and passion on the subject has been consistent, constructive and unselfish.

Guest/Bones/Wilber on the other hand, is a Parent or Bolts official that has only posted to single out and attack FSM for a situation that is common in Club soccer. Being too cowardly to post under a registered identity and while pretending to be different people in order to strengthen their personal and childish attacks, Guest/Bones/Wilber has demonstrated their true character. Obviously, Guest/Bones/Wilber did not like the change at the Bolts and resents the players for wanting to move with the Coach. But instead of discussing the issues that instigated the change, Guest/Bones/Wilber has decided to use this forum to single out and attack FSM. It is a pathetic display of immaturity. Surely there were better opportunities to air objections or opinions about the change before the final decision was made. Or, perhaps the value of Guest/Bones/Wilber opinions were discounted due to the same lack of integrity that has been on display in this thread.

What propelled a Coach to change Clubs or what drives a team to leave en mass are topics worthy of discussion. It’s too bad Guest/Bones/Wilber couldn’t handle a more productive debate.




.

Dear Keeper (whoever you are),

I am a parent who has a second child in the Stars program currently. The first one was there as well.

Here's my problem with all of this: If FSM (or anyone else) thought that the Stars program was this Utopia of club soccer, why haven't they come earlier? This is at least the third club for her from what I put together from her posts here and on other forums. I mean, she wants us to believe that she has this great knowledge of the landscape, yet she can't settle on/find a stable situation. So in a year, or two, or whenever she thinks she finds another situation where the grass is greener, she'll be gone with her coach and the team, and will disrupt MY club. Again.

And so you are all clear: I do believe that coaches, players, and families can and should be free to choose where to coach & play. I'm just tired of reading how we should all be doing things differently by someone who whose actions are ultimately no different than those she criticizes.

06-23-2007, 12:00 PM
This is at least the third club for her from what I put together from her posts here and on other forums.

The fact of the matter is most coaches will not touch her with a ten foot pole.

keeper
06-23-2007, 01:20 PM
Dear Keeper (whoever you are),
I am a parent who has a second child in the Stars program currently. The first one was there as well. .

I’m sure the Stars are very proud of your participation in this forum. Since your child was released by the Stars as a result of this change, your attacking of FSM makes even less sense. The whole move was controlled by the Stars and I doubt FSM had any say in the matter. If you had been from the Bolts, you may have at least had the pretense of arguing loyalty to the Club as an issue.

Here's my problem with all of this: If FSM (or anyone else) thought that the Stars program was this Utopia of club soccer, why haven't they come earlier?

Who said the Stars program was a “Utopia of club soccerâ€￾? Obviously, the Stars believe that their program would be improved by adding this coach and some new players. Growth and development often require change, for both players and Clubs.

edited This is at least the third club for her from what I put together from her posts here and on other forums. I mean, she wants us to believe that she has this great knowledge of the landscape, yet she can't settle on/find a stable situation

For someone who disagrees with FSM’s views on youth soccer, you certainly seem to follow her. Are you stalking FSM?

I think her point has always been; not to settle for the status quo. And in this case, the more stable situation may in fact just be staying with the existing coach.

So in a year, or two, or whenever she thinks she finds another situation where the grass is greener, she'll be gone with her coach and the team, and will disrupt MY club. Again. .

Finally, we can now all understand your position. But it’s YOUR Club that is driving this, and not FSM. If in the future, another Club should ask a Stars Coach to join them and then part of the team decides to leave with that Coach, I doubt they’d complain as you have.

The biggest issue that you don’t really seem to understand, is by that age (U16/U17) FSM will have little say in what her daughter does or doesn’t do regaruding staying or moving with a soccer team. I actually doubt she has that much say at this age :)

And so you are all clear…..
I'm just tired of reading how we should all be doing things differently by someone who whose actions are ultimately no different than those she criticizes.
This is at least the third club for her from what I put together from her posts here and on other forums.

The fact of the matter is most coaches will not touch her with a ten foot pole.
Well, I’m tired of reading about your personal problems and your animosity towards FSM, but this forum is open to everyone. I’m also tired of your posting under different names in order to support yourself. But again, it’s an open forum and you’re rather transparent. so it’s just another burden to bear in order to enjoy free and open debate.



.

FSM
06-23-2007, 02:22 PM
Bones, don't know if you really are with the Stars or not, because if you were you'd be aware that there are many, many players in the club who have played for 3 or 4 clubs before ending up with the Stars. They did so by their own choice, while it is by happenstance that we may find ourselves there.

I think you need to address your indignation in this forum to the Stars administration and those club hopping players that have had the audacity to come play for YOUR club. Then of course you will have to remove your daughter from her Stars' team or risk looking like a hypocrite yourself.

This is at least the third club for her from what I put together from her posts here and on other forums.

The fact of the matter is most coaches will not touch her with a ten foot pole.



Dang, I sure do wish you'd tell those coaches that keep calling that we are untouchable.

06-23-2007, 02:46 PM
FSM and Keeper exposed! Good stuff. Keep it going...

06-23-2007, 03:03 PM
Dear Keeper (whoever you are),
I am a parent who has a second child in the Stars program currently. The first one was there as well. .

I’m sure the Stars are very proud of your participation in this forum. Since your child was released by the Stars as a result of this change, your attacking of FSM makes even less sense. The whole move was controlled by the Stars and I doubt FSM had any say in the matter. If you had been from the Bolts, you may have at least had the pretense of arguing loyalty to the Club as an issue.

Here's my problem with all of this: If FSM (or anyone else) thought that the Stars program was this Utopia of club soccer, why haven't they come earlier?

Who said the Stars program was a “Utopia of club soccerâ€￾? Obviously, the Stars believe that their program would be improved by adding this coach and some new players. Growth and development often require change, for both players and Clubs.

edited This is at least the third club for her from what I put together from her posts here and on other forums. I mean, she wants us to believe that she has this great knowledge of the landscape, yet she can't settle on/find a stable situation

For someone who disagrees with FSM’s views on youth soccer, you certainly seem to follow her. Are you stalking FSM?

I think her point has always been; not to settle for the status quo. And in this case, the more stable situation may in fact just be staying with the existing coach.

So in a year, or two, or whenever she thinks she finds another situation where the grass is greener, she'll be gone with her coach and the team, and will disrupt MY club. Again. .

Finally, we can now all understand your position. But it’s YOUR Club that is driving this, and not FSM. If in the future, another Club should ask a Stars Coach to join them and then part of the team decides to leave with that Coach, I doubt they’d complain as you have.

The biggest issue that you don’t really seem to understand, is by that age (U16/U17) FSM will have little say in what her daughter does or doesn’t do regaruding staying or moving with a soccer team. I actually doubt she has that much say at this age :)

And so you are all clear…..
I'm just tired of reading how we should all be doing things differently by someone who whose actions are ultimately no different than those she criticizes.
This is at least the third club for her from what I put together from her posts here and on other forums.

The fact of the matter is most coaches will not touch her with a ten foot pole.
Well, I’m tired of reading about your personal problems and your animosity towards FSM, but this forum is open to everyone. I’m also tired of your posting under different names in order to support yourself. But again, it’s an open forum and you’re rather transparent. so it’s just another burden to bear in order to enjoy free and open debate.



.

In other posts you come across as quite a smart person. But this is as big a load of garbage, wild conclusions, and false statements as has ever been posted here.

Why is it your problem when someone else's opinions get challenged? Is the "First" in her name supposed to be taken in the same connotation as the First Lady? Oh please.

My kid is on Stars next year. I have no animosity toward FSM, or any other person here. Bones is the only name I use to post. None of the posts under "Guest" are mine. Whatever other burderns you seem to bear are yours to deal with.

FSM
06-23-2007, 03:09 PM
I smell onions again.

bsoccer
06-23-2007, 03:14 PM
STARS/BOLTS 90210?

06-23-2007, 03:53 PM
As The Soccer Ball Turns

bsoccer
06-23-2007, 03:59 PM
MALICE Ryhmes with Dallas

The part of J R Ewing will be played by the Stars organization trying to bulid an empire.

The part of Bobby Ewing will be played by the Bolts coach who defected to the Stars for the betterment of his girls.

The part of the long suffering Sue Ellen can be played by FSM. :popcorn:

keeper
06-23-2007, 09:07 PM
I have no animosity toward FSM

Bones is the only name I use to post. None of the posts under "Guest" are mine.

I’ll stand by my analysis, and I’m quite comfortable in letting any reader judge whether or not you’re driven by animosity towards FSM. The fact that this whole process was driven by the Stars and not FSM seems rather difficult for you to understand.

Furthermore, while FSM is more than capable of dealing with your persistent rants and attacks, there is a compelling reason why she should not respond to anything you have posted. It’s her daughter’s team and no player wants to be connected with any discussion on this forum. It may not matter to you, but you may wish to consult with your own daughter about your campaign against FSM...

BTW, the burden I mentioned is a collective one that we all share. Free speech and open debate must allow for both the good and the bad. The “guestâ€￾ feature will allow for topics that people were too intimidated to address, but it also allow posters to play silly games.




.

06-24-2007, 05:48 AM
Keeper, why is it that Bones opinions are "Rants" and yours are reasoned "analysis"? Will you have us believe that only you and FSM have a corner on righteous and that anyone who criticizes either of you is "bashing" or "ranting"?

06-24-2007, 07:45 AM
I’ll stand by my analysis, and I’m quite comfortable in letting any reader judge whether or not you’re driven by animosity towards FSM.
Well then, I hope you enjoy wallowing in your own ingnorance on this subject.


I have found this FSM reply particularly poignant:
This is at least the third club for her from what I put together from her posts here and on other forums.

The fact of the matter is most coaches will not touch her with a ten foot pole.



Dang, I sure do wish you'd tell those coaches that keep calling that we are untouchable.

It all fits now. She really is one of us! A meddlosome parent who wants to be part of a winning MAPLE club whose child is so talented that she is wanted by coaches everywhere! Welcome back to the MAPLE Masses FSM!


Keeper, I think we all appreciate your impression of the Amazing Kreskin whose motto: With a showman’s flair, a comedians wit, and capacities of a bona fide Mentalist, The Amazing Kreskin has, for over five decades, dramatized the unique facets of the human mind. seems to be the technique you use when reading posts. Do you own a Ouija Board too? Do you sit around in your spare time watching videos of Dr. Uri Gellar bending spoons with his mind?

You take some things I post as literal, yet you read between the lines of others. How you are able to pick and choose is fascinating!

Have a really nice day. And I hope your violent opposition to my opinions are the most tragic problems you will ever face in your life.

06-24-2007, 08:22 AM
Have a really nice day. And I hope your violent opposition to my opinions are the most tragic problems you will ever face in your life.

Violent opposition??? How about articulate?

06-24-2007, 01:37 PM
WOW

you people are unbelievable. None of you know how the move of Mr Redmond to the Stars materialized neither do any of you know how the move of the FC United coach and players to the bolts materialized either. You all need to get off your soap box and stop speculating about stuff you know nothing about. At the end of the day if your daughter or son is cut from any organization it is because they are deemed not good enough for that team by the coach. Deal with it and move on will you please

FSM
06-24-2007, 02:15 PM
You know what is funny about this is all the people who can rationalize cutting kids to "improve" the team. How can anyone express indignation under the heading of loyalty to club, if clubs aren't willing to show loyalty to the kids in their program?

06-24-2007, 02:26 PM
WOW

you people are unbelievable. None of you know how the move of Mr Redmond to the Stars materialized neither do any of you know how the move of the FC United coach and players to the bolts materialized either. You all need to get off your soap box and stop speculating about stuff you know nothing about. At the end of the day if your daughter or son is cut from any organization it is because they are deemed not good enough for that team by the coach. Deal with it and move on will you please

I know quite a bit of the Redmond move from the Bolts to the Stars. I can tell you the fulll truth has not come out. It would not paint a very pretty picture of Redmond, the loyalist parents or the Bolts for that matter.

06-24-2007, 03:34 PM
Ok, tell us?????

JustForFun
06-24-2007, 03:39 PM
FFM writes:

I smell onions again.

Bones can't be the onion man. I AM THE ONION MAN!!!!!! With my bald head, overweight rotund torso, and pasty translucent skin, I AM THE ONION!!!!!!! I am very disappointed the FFM has a another Onion in her life.

I suggest that from now on we just refer to her as FFM (Flip Flop Mom) and move on.

06-24-2007, 03:46 PM
You know what is funny about this is all the people who can rationalize cutting kids to "improve" the team. How can anyone express indignation under the heading of loyalty to club, if clubs aren't willing to show loyalty to the kids in their program?

Now THAT'S relevant to the discussion......

06-24-2007, 03:47 PM
I like it Flip Flop Mom. I don't have the time, but go back the last three years and thousand of her posts.

06-24-2007, 04:20 PM
WOW

It's hard to keep up.

There’s the season summary so far, just in case you’ve missed something.

With lots of the usual drama, a coach moved to another club and some of the team went with him. Yes – it happens all the time, but here is the good stuff. Bones’ (aka guest) kid was cut as a result of the move and she blames FSM for everything wrong in the world. Bones is now going hunt down FSM throughout the internet and call her a poopiehead. Aren’t we all glad kids don’t post here; they would raise the level of discussion far too much.

06-24-2007, 05:31 PM
FFM writes:

I smell onions again.

Bones can't be the onion man. I AM THE ONION MAN!!!!!! With my bald head, overweight rotund torso, and pasty translucent skin, I AM THE ONION!!!!!!! I am very disappointed the FFM has a another Onion in her life.

I suggest that from now on we just refer to her as FFM (Flip Flop Mom) and move on.

You both can be the same poster as Bones is not register.

06-24-2007, 05:44 PM
WOW

It's hard to keep up.

There’s the season summary so far, just in case you’ve missed something.

With lots of the usual drama, a coach moved to another club and some of the team went with him. Yes – it happens all the time, but here is the good stuff. Bones’ (aka guest) kid was cut as a result of the move and she blames FSM for everything wrong in the world. Bones is now going hunt down FSM throughout the internet and call her a poopiehead. Aren’t we all glad kids don’t post here; they would raise the level of discussion far too much.

Hello Guest!

You have missed something!

Specifically, the part that says my kid is currently a Stars player.

Have a nice day!

JustForFun
06-24-2007, 05:58 PM
You both can be the same poster as Bones is not register.

I can not be Bones. Who would give a large rotund person, so rotund that they look almost round, a nickname Bones? That makes no sense at all. But I do have very long skinny legs dangling from my torso so maybe that is how you are confused?

06-24-2007, 07:43 PM
WOW

It's hard to keep up.

There’s the season summary so far, just in case you’ve missed something.

With lots of the usual drama, a coach moved to another club and some of the team went with him. Yes – it happens all the time, but here is the good stuff. Bones’ (aka guest) kid was cut as a result of the move and she blames FSM for everything wrong in the world. Bones is now going hunt down FSM throughout the internet and call her a poopiehead. Aren’t we all glad kids don’t post here; they would raise the level of discussion far too much.

Hello Guest!

You have missed something!

Specifically, the part that says my kid is currently a Stars player.

Have a nice day!

Guest didn't miss much -
I am a parent who has a second child in the Stars program currently. The first one was there as well.
Your former and current coach not only convinced a majority of girls to follow him to the Stars, he also managed to convince many families to bring younger siblings as well to help fill out various Stars rosters;.
So in a year, or two, or whenever she thinks she finds another situation where the grass is greener, she'll be gone with her coach and the team, and will disrupt MY club. Again.

Lets see, one child is now is no longer with the Stars and the second child, that I guess is in danger because that mean nasty Coach “also managed to convince many families to bring younger siblings as well to help fill out various Stars rostersâ€￾. If you were not worried about the second child, wouldn’t bringing those “younger siblings as well to help fill out various Stars rostersâ€￾ be a positive thing. The Stars management must have thought it would help the program, why don’t you??? And why are you blaming FSM??

Oh - I forgot - it is YOUR club. So why did YOU decide to accept this coach, his team and all of those little ones.

06-24-2007, 08:16 PM
WOW

It's hard to keep up.

There’s the season summary so far, just in case you’ve missed something.

With lots of the usual drama, a coach moved to another club and some of the team went with him. Yes – it happens all the time, but here is the good stuff. Bones’ (aka guest) kid was cut as a result of the move and she blames FSM for everything wrong in the world. Bones is now going hunt down FSM throughout the internet and call her a poopiehead. Aren’t we all glad kids don’t post here; they would raise the level of discussion far too much.

Hello Guest!

You have missed something!

Specifically, the part that says my kid is currently a Stars player.

Have a nice day!

Guest didn't miss much -
I am a parent who has a second child in the Stars program currently. The first one was there as well.
Your former and current coach not only convinced a majority of girls to follow him to the Stars, he also managed to convince many families to bring younger siblings as well to help fill out various Stars rosters;.
So in a year, or two, or whenever she thinks she finds another situation where the grass is greener, she'll be gone with her coach and the team, and will disrupt MY club. Again.

Lets see, one child is now is no longer with the Stars and the second child, that I guess is in danger because that mean nasty Coach “also managed to convince many families to bring younger siblings as well to help fill out various Stars rostersâ€￾. If you were not worried about the second child, wouldn’t bringing those “younger siblings as well to help fill out various Stars rostersâ€￾ be a positive thing. The Stars management must have thought it would help the program, why don’t you??? And why are you blaming FSM??

Oh - I forgot - it is YOUR club. So why did YOU decide to accept this coach, his team and all of those little ones.

I know it's complicated, so try and follow along, OK?

My oldest is no longer with the Stars because they do not field a U20 team.

My other one is on a team that will not be affected by the emigrating Bolts team. Those kids aren't filling out an exisiting roster. They are a seperate roster unto themselves.

For the 137th time, I don't blame FFM for leaving. She and everyone else are free to go where they want. It's the posting of articles that imply that those of us that do what she has just done are inferior life forms and youth soccer neanderthals.

As for the "MY club" comment........seems many of you could benefit from the ownership of a decent dictionary. Look up the definition of the word club........as a member of the club, it is my club as much as anyone's......

06-24-2007, 08:23 PM
For the 137th time, I don't blame FFM for leaving. She and everyone else are free to go where they want. It's the posting of articles that imply that those of us that do what she has just done are inferior life forms and youth soccer neanderthals.

:smt102

Maybe you just have an inferiority complex. What has she just done that is contrary to those article? Can you provide an example?

06-24-2007, 08:53 PM
It's the posting of articles that imply that those of us that do what she has just done are inferior life forms and youth soccer neanderthals.

You mean to tell us that the entire reason for your petty little tantrums has been because FSM posted some articles that implied something that you don’t like. Boy do you need to get a life…...Please don’t waste any more of our time, even skipping over your posts requires more effort than they're worth.

keeper
06-24-2007, 10:39 PM
Keeper, why is it that Bones opinions are "Rants" and yours are reasoned "analysis"? Will you have us believe that only you and FSM have a corner on righteous and that anyone who criticizes either of you is "bashing" or "ranting"?

Interesting that you needed to add FSM into this, but you ask a fair question. However, after reading what's been driving guest/Wilber/bones I'll be brief.

My comments were a direct reaction to what was posted and I hope were at least thought out well enough to make a point. My “reasoned analysisâ€￾ is that guest/Wilber/bones is the same poster and that the postings are driven by animosity and not facts. I also said I was comfortable having readers judge my “analysisâ€￾. Perhaps you know a different path to formulating your own opinions other than your own “reasoned analysisâ€￾.

By your tone, you seem to disagree with my opinions and that’s fine by me. You are quite free to skip over any post I write on this board or criticize me or my opinions in anyway you like.

As far as my accusing anyone who criticizes me of "bashing" or "ranting", please give me an example.

What distinguishes a “rantâ€￾ from other posts are the emotional, anger, and political nature, often with the use of snide commentary...Rants are single minded themes injected into discussions without any regard to relevantly or significance. Rants are often just incoherent ramblings based on shallow arguments with an adherence to a "fixed idea" in the face of contrary evidence. The purpose of a rant is not to engage in a discussion or to express an opinion; it’s merely for public display of one’s anger for some sort of emotional release...

An honest reading of the forum will show an increasing number of what I call “rantsâ€￾ targeting FSM by guest/Wilber/bones. It has now become too well linked to her own daughters team, and I do think that once a player gets stuck in the crosshairs of some angry mean-spirited nameless adult, someone should step in. I know most of you never look at these posts from a players’ point of view, but I can assure you that they don’t like being included in these types of discussions. Having a parent tied to a team issue being dragged through the mud is not a pleasant experience.

There are plenty of other topics for guest/Wilber/bones to have disagreed with FSM about, the fact that these posts were the result of guest/Wilber/bones merely not likely some articles that FSM posted, is embarrassing. That any player and their team could be in anyway be affected by such ranting, for an issue as trivial as this, is patently unfair. The fact that guest/Wilber/bones placed their own ego ahead of a group of U15s is just plain sad.




.

06-25-2007, 06:46 AM
Keeper, why is it that Bones opinions are "Rants" and yours are reasoned "analysis"? Will you have us believe that only you and FSM have a corner on righteous and that anyone who criticizes either of you is "bashing" or "ranting"?

Interesting that you needed to add FSM into this, but you ask a fair question. However, after reading what's been driving guest/Wilber/bones I'll be brief.

My comments were a direct reaction to what was posted and I hope were at least thought out well enough to make a point. My “reasoned analysisâ€￾ is that guest/Wilber/bones is the same poster and that the postings are driven by animosity and not facts. I also said I was comfortable having readers judge my “analysisâ€￾. Perhaps you know a different path to formulating your own opinions other than your own “reasoned analysisâ€￾.

By your tone, you seem to disagree with my opinions and that’s fine by me. You are quite free to skip over any post I write on this board or criticize me or my opinions in anyway you like.

As far as my accusing anyone who criticizes me of "bashing" or "ranting", please give me an example.

What distinguishes a “rantâ€￾ from other posts are the emotional, anger, and political nature, often with the use of snide commentary...Rants are single minded themes injected into discussions without any regard to relevantly or significance. Rants are often just incoherent ramblings based on shallow arguments with an adherence to a "fixed idea" in the face of contrary evidence. The purpose of a rant is not to engage in a discussion or to express an opinion; it’s merely for public display of one’s anger for some sort of emotional release...

An honest reading of the forum will show an increasing number of what I call “rantsâ€￾ targeting FSM by guest/Wilber/bones. It has now become too well linked to her own daughters team, and I do think that once a player gets stuck in the crosshairs of some angry mean-spirited nameless adult, someone should step in. I know most of you never look at these posts from a players’ point of view, but I can assure you that they don’t like being included in these types of discussions. Having a parent tied to a team issue being dragged through the mud is not a pleasant experience.

There are plenty of other topics for guest/Wilber/bones to have disagreed with FSM about, the fact that these posts were the result of guest/Wilber/bones merely not likely some articles that FSM posted, is embarrassing. That any player and their team could be in anyway be affected by such ranting, for an issue as trivial as this, is patently unfair. The fact that guest/Wilber/bones placed their own ego ahead of a group of U15s is just plain sad.




.

Apparently, this poster has completely forgotten about all the development/consistency/stay with the club articles this soccer mom had posted on the old forum.

I'm sure I'm not the only person who is surprised at some of her comments explaining the situation. It does certainly seem to be opposite of her previous positions. It really calls into question her percieved authority and credibility.

nutmegs
06-25-2007, 07:18 AM
WOW

It's hard to keep up.

There’s the season summary so far, just in case you’ve missed something.

With lots of the usual drama, a coach moved to another club and some of the team went with him. Yes – it happens all the time, but here is the good stuff. Bones’ (aka guest) kid was cut as a result of the move and she blames FSM for everything wrong in the world. Bones is now going hunt down FSM throughout the internet and call her a poopiehead. Aren’t we all glad kids don’t post here; they would raise the level of discussion far too much.

Hello Guest!

You have missed something!

Specifically, the part that says my kid is currently a Stars player.

Have a nice day!

Guest didn't miss much -
I am a parent who has a second child in the Stars program currently. The first one was there as well.
Your former and current coach not only convinced a majority of girls to follow him to the Stars, he also managed to convince many families to bring younger siblings as well to help fill out various Stars rosters;.
So in a year, or two, or whenever she thinks she finds another situation where the grass is greener, she'll be gone with her coach and the team, and will disrupt MY club. Again.

Lets see, one child is now is no longer with the Stars and the second child, that I guess is in danger because that mean nasty Coach “also managed to convince many families to bring younger siblings as well to help fill out various Stars rostersâ€￾. If you were not worried about the second child, wouldn’t bringing those “younger siblings as well to help fill out various Stars rostersâ€￾ be a positive thing. The Stars management must have thought it would help the program, why don’t you??? And why are you blaming FSM??

Oh - I forgot - it is YOUR club. So why did YOU decide to accept this coach, his team and all of those little ones.

I know it's complicated, so try and follow along, OK?

My oldest is no longer with the Stars because they do not field a U20 team.

My other one is on a team that will not be affected by the emigrating Bolts team. Those kids aren't filling out an exisiting roster. They are a seperate roster unto themselves.

For the 137th time, I don't blame FFM for leaving. She and everyone else are free to go where they want. It's the posting of articles that imply that those of us that do what she has just done are inferior life forms and youth soccer neanderthals.

As for the "MY club" comment........seems many of you could benefit from the ownership of a decent dictionary. Look up the definition of the word club........as a member of the club, it is my club as much as anyone's......

Why are you spending so much time ripping apart another parent on this forum? Why is she not allowed to change her mind? And, perhaps her child WANTED to stay with her teammates, her coach. If so, good for FSM for hearing what her 13/14 year old is saying. I have seen a parent remove his child from a U11 team she loved...MIDSEASON...to go to another team HE percieved was closer to her ability level. This was the 4th club this child had played for by U11...I kid you not. (She started playing up when she was very young) The child was visably upset, and did not want to leave her team; she was forced to by her parent. Perhaps FSM is unlike that parent, and does not stuff her own agenda down her daughter's throat.
Also,would you please refer to FSM by her proper screen name? You are like a mocking playground bully. Perhaps you are a case of arrested development, and if that is so, I am truly sorry, but this forum should not be the place for adults to bully each other.

06-25-2007, 07:29 AM
WOW

It's hard to keep up.

There’s the season summary so far, just in case you’ve missed something.

With lots of the usual drama, a coach moved to another club and some of the team went with him. Yes – it happens all the time, but here is the good stuff. Bones’ (aka guest) kid was cut as a result of the move and she blames FSM for everything wrong in the world. Bones is now going hunt down FSM throughout the internet and call her a poopiehead. Aren’t we all glad kids don’t post here; they would raise the level of discussion far too much.

Hello Guest!

You have missed something!

Specifically, the part that says my kid is currently a Stars player.

Have a nice day!

Guest didn't miss much -
I am a parent who has a second child in the Stars program currently. The first one was there as well.
Your former and current coach not only convinced a majority of girls to follow him to the Stars, he also managed to convince many families to bring younger siblings as well to help fill out various Stars rosters;.
So in a year, or two, or whenever she thinks she finds another situation where the grass is greener, she'll be gone with her coach and the team, and will disrupt MY club. Again.

Lets see, one child is now is no longer with the Stars and the second child, that I guess is in danger because that mean nasty Coach “also managed to convince many families to bring younger siblings as well to help fill out various Stars rostersâ€￾. If you were not worried about the second child, wouldn’t bringing those “younger siblings as well to help fill out various Stars rostersâ€￾ be a positive thing. The Stars management must have thought it would help the program, why don’t you??? And why are you blaming FSM??

Oh - I forgot - it is YOUR club. So why did YOU decide to accept this coach, his team and all of those little ones.

I know it's complicated, so try and follow along, OK?

My oldest is no longer with the Stars because they do not field a U20 team.

My other one is on a team that will not be affected by the emigrating Bolts team. Those kids aren't filling out an exisiting roster. They are a seperate roster unto themselves.

For the 137th time, I don't blame FFM for leaving. She and everyone else are free to go where they want. It's the posting of articles that imply that those of us that do what she has just done are inferior life forms and youth soccer neanderthals.

As for the "MY club" comment........seems many of you could benefit from the ownership of a decent dictionary. Look up the definition of the word club........as a member of the club, it is my club as much as anyone's......

Why are you spending so much time ripping apart another parent on this forum? Why is she not allowed to change her mind? And, perhaps her child WANTED to stay with her teammates, her coach. If so, good for FSM for hearing what her 13/14 year old is saying. I have seen a parent remove his child from a U11 team she loved...MIDSEASON...to go to another team HE percieved was closer to her ability level. This was the 4th club this child had played for by U11...I kid you not. (She started playing up when she was very young) The child was visably upset, and did not want to leave her team; she was forced to by her parent. Perhaps FSM is unlike that parent, and does not stuff her own agenda down her daughter's throat.
Also,would you please refer to FSM by her proper screen name? You are like a mocking playground bully. Perhaps you are a case of arrested development, and if that is so, I am truly sorry, but this forum should not be the place for adults to bully each other.

Dear seed of Asian evergreen tree,


See comment of my previous post (which you copied, but did not read):

For the 138th time, I don't blame FFM for leaving. She and everyone else are free to go where they want. It's the posting of articles that imply that those of us that do what she has just done are inferior life forms and youth soccer neanderthals.

06-25-2007, 08:27 AM
For the 138th time, I don't blame FFM for leaving. She and everyone else are free to go where they want.

It's the posting of articles that imply that those of us that do what she has just done are inferior life forms and youth soccer neanderthals.

We all got it.

You are attacking FSM because she posted some 3rd party articles that you don't like.

06-25-2007, 08:41 AM
For the 138th time, I don't blame FFM for leaving. She and everyone else are free to go where they want.

It's the posting of articles that imply that those of us that do what she has just done are inferior life forms and youth soccer neanderthals.

We all got it.

You are attacking FSM because she posted some 3rd party articles that you don't like.

We all got it.
APPARENTLY, NOT ALL OF YOU.

You are attacking FSM because she posted some 3rd party articles that you don't like.
ACTUALLY, I LIKED AND AGREED WITH A LOT OF WHAT SHE POSTED. I THINK SHE'S SMART, AND REALLY DOES HER RESEARCH. SHE'S WELL READ, ENTHUSIASTIC, AND WANTS GOOD THINGS. SHE'D HAVE MORE BELIEVABILITY AND CREDIBILITY IF SHE FOLLOWED HER OWN ADVICE, RATHER THAN CHASTISING THOSE WHO DO WHAT SHE HAS JUST DONE.

JustForFun
06-25-2007, 09:00 AM
Nutmegs wrote:

Also,would you please refer to FSM by her proper screen name? You are like a mocking playground bully.

It is only a joke Nutmegs. Loosen up and laugh. Everyone loves FSM. Sometimes in a uptight situation if you make a joke, people laugh and move on. Notice I said Let's move on. Laugh Nutmegs :lol: :lol: :lol:

06-25-2007, 09:14 AM
AMEN

FSM
06-25-2007, 09:20 AM
Bones, old boy, I have followed my philosophy and I think my daughter has done well because of it.

Apparently, this poster has completely forgotten about all the development/consistency/stay with the club articles this soccer mom had posted on the old forum.

I don't think you will find a single article that says stay with the club. Those articles provide guides for what clubs should be doing in terms of appropriate training at specific ages of development. If a club is not providing it, I'd be the first to say go elsewhere because that is what I have done, searched for a club/coaching situation that meets the specific demands of my daughter appropriate to her age. At age 15 she needs teammates that can provide her with a challenge during training. It looked as though the Bolts could no longer provide that, but the Stars could.

06-25-2007, 10:01 AM
For the 138th time, I don't blame FFM for leaving. She and everyone else are free to go where they want.

It's the posting of articles that imply that those of us that do what she has just done are inferior life forms and youth soccer neanderthals.

We all got it.

You are attacking FSM because she posted some 3rd party articles that you don't like.
We all got it.
APPARENTLY, NOT ALL OF YOU.
You are attacking FSM because she posted some 3rd party articles that you don't like.
ACTUALLY, I LIKED AND AGREED WITH A LOT OF WHAT SHE POSTED. I THINK SHE'S SMART, AND REALLY DOES HER RESEARCH. SHE'S WELL READ, ENTHUSIASTIC, AND WANTS GOOD THINGS. SHE'D HAVE MORE BELIEVABILITY AND CREDIBILITY IF SHE FOLLOWED HER OWN ADVICE, RATHER THAN CHASTISING THOSE WHO DO WHAT SHE HAS JUST DONE.

Take it easy, you keep changing the reasons you're attacking FSM, so it takes a little time to catch uo with your latest.

Lets see:

YOU LIKED AND AGREED WITH A LOT OF WHAT SHE POSTED. [/*:m:lb4sqgvn]
YOU THINK SHE'S SMART, AND REALLY DOES HER RESEARCH. [/*:m:lb4sqgvn]
SHE'S WELL READ, ENTHUSIASTIC, AND WANTS GOOD THINGS[/*:m:lb4sqgvn]
SHE AND EVERYONE ELSE ARE FREE TO GO WHERE THEY WANT[/*:m:lb4sqgvn]
You're now angry and attacking her because:

SHE'D HAVE MORE BELIEVABILITY AND CREDIBILITY IF SHE FOLLOWED HER OWN ADVICE[/*:m:lb4sqgvn]
SHE CHASTISED YOU FOR DOING WHAT SHE DID.[/*:m:lb4sqgvn]
I'm sure she thought through things, being as you say. "smart, well read, wanting good things, enthusiastic and did her research". And, after all of that, she and her daughter decided to stay with the team and coach. There are certainly a lot of factors to consider when making such decision, but it sounds like you think she has the right information to proceed.

Now we come to your big issue, at one time FSM "CHASTISED YOU FOR DOING WHAT SHE DID".

So we now all know: (until you again change)

Your attacks on FSM are just a matter of revenge.

How about some examples, were all of the circumstances the exact same?

06-25-2007, 10:18 AM
For the 138th time, I don't blame FFM for leaving. She and everyone else are free to go where they want.

It's the posting of articles that imply that those of us that do what she has just done are inferior life forms and youth soccer neanderthals.

We all got it.

You are attacking FSM because she posted some 3rd party articles that you don't like.
We all got it.
APPARENTLY, NOT ALL OF YOU.
You are attacking FSM because she posted some 3rd party articles that you don't like.
ACTUALLY, I LIKED AND AGREED WITH A LOT OF WHAT SHE POSTED. I THINK SHE'S SMART, AND REALLY DOES HER RESEARCH. SHE'S WELL READ, ENTHUSIASTIC, AND WANTS GOOD THINGS. SHE'D HAVE MORE BELIEVABILITY AND CREDIBILITY IF SHE FOLLOWED HER OWN ADVICE, RATHER THAN CHASTISING THOSE WHO DO WHAT SHE HAS JUST DONE.

Take it easy, you keep changing the reasons you're attacking FSM, so it takes a little time to catch uo with your latest.

Lets see:

YOU LIKED AND AGREED WITH A LOT OF WHAT SHE POSTED. [/*:m:256zz4tj]
YOU THINK SHE'S SMART, AND REALLY DOES HER RESEARCH. [/*:m:256zz4tj]
SHE'S WELL READ, ENTHUSIASTIC, AND WANTS GOOD THINGS[/*:m:256zz4tj]
SHE AND EVERYONE ELSE ARE FREE TO GO WHERE THEY WANT[/*:m:256zz4tj]
You're now angry and attacking her because:

SHE'D HAVE MORE BELIEVABILITY AND CREDIBILITY IF SHE FOLLOWED HER OWN ADVICE[/*:m:256zz4tj]
SHE CHASTISED YOU FOR DOING WHAT SHE DID.[/*:m:256zz4tj]
I'm sure she thought through things, being as you say. "smart, well read, wanting good things, enthusiastic and did her research". And, after all of that, she and her daughter decided to stay with the team and coach. There are certainly a lot of factors to consider when making such decision, but it sounds like you think she has the right information to proceed.

Now we come to your big issue, at one time FSM "CHASTISED YOU FOR DOING WHAT SHE DID".

So we now all know: (until you again change)

Your attacks on FSM are just a matter of revenge.

How about some examples, were all of the circumstances the exact same?



Yes. Exactly. That's it. You've summarized it accurately. Without any direct knowledge or connection to the situation, you hace captured the situation.

#-o

nutmegs
06-25-2007, 10:32 AM
Nutmegs wrote:

Also,would you please refer to FSM by her proper screen name? You are like a mocking playground bully.

It is only a joke Nutmegs. Loosen up and laugh. Everyone loves FSM. Sometimes in a uptight situation if you make a joke, people laugh and move on. Notice I said Let's move on. Laugh Nutmegs :lol: :lol: :lol:

You sound like a parent who says "boys will be boys" when one kid bashes another on the head at school. Many a truth is said in "jest"! Apparently everyone does not love FSM, as the vitriolic posts directed at her on this new forum confirm. I do know how to laugh. I do it all the time, just not at someone else's expense.

06-25-2007, 10:41 AM
Yes. Exactly. That's it. You've summarized it accurately. Without any direct knowledge or connection to the situation, you hace captured the situation.

You keep telling us and then you change your explanation.

So tell us again, why all the personal attacks on FSM.

Red van
06-25-2007, 10:42 AM
Those of us lurking and reading are getting tired of the off-topic ranting and sarcasm of Bones and whoever. How about discussing YOUTH SOCCER???!!! Please don't take up cyber-space with personal attacks, it's juvenile and petty, not to mention off the subject. If you don't have something to say about YOUTH SOCCER then SHUT UP. Please.

JustForFun
06-25-2007, 11:00 AM
Guest wrote

I like it Flip Flop Mom. I don't have the time, but go back the last three years and thousand of her posts.

Nutmeg wrote

You sound like a parent who says "boys will be boys" when one kid bashes another on the head at school. ........... the vitriolic posts directed .......

Nutmeg:

If you read the Guests post above, they state that they like FFM and and they are not going to go back through the many posts (they had a laugh and moved on). Since then we have not heard from that Guest. Sorry if you did not like my way of trying to stop the whole thread. Maybe Red van's method will be more effective. Quite frankly your posts are not nicest ......................... It does not appear as though you are laughing yet!!!!!!!

06-25-2007, 11:45 AM
Yes. Exactly. That's it. You've summarized it accurately. Without any direct knowledge or connection to the situation, you hace captured the situation.

You keep telling us and then you change your explanation.

So tell us again, why all the personal attacks on FSM.

Yeah. OK. I'll get right on that. Right after my elective gum surgery.


I wish the Grand Dame of Youth Soccer well as she looks on with pride as her daughetr can now finally pull on the coveted Stars jersey. I hope she's done more research on her new club than she did on the old one. One year and done, and she's trashing the old one on the way out the door.

At age 15 she needs teammates that can provide her with a challenge during training. It looked as though the Bolts could no longer provide that, but the Stars could.

If it's the same coach and same team, how will the training be any more of a challenge? Will they try harder because they'll be wearing Stars training shirts?

Blue Devil
06-25-2007, 11:51 AM
Just For Fun - some of your posts have brought a smile to my face and even outright laughter in one case.

But it also appears that some of the fun you seek is stirring the pot up by posting as various different users and chuckling as posters who are affected and enaged by various versions of you get progressively more upset. Then as the "coup de grace" you claim it's all fun and upset posters need to lighten up.

By the way I think that I'm currently pretty light already - but if you think I still need to lighten up even more - I'll give it a whirl

Can I get an Amen?

06-25-2007, 12:00 PM
I haven't read every posting closely, but I don't recall a discussion of the pecuniary aspects of when a team switches clubs. The Stars new U15G team, for example, would bring, say, 18 players x $1750 fees (a guess) = $31,500 in brand-new revenues to the Stars. Of course, the club would have to pay the new coach, provide uniforms, etc. Being ignorant of these matters, I wonder how far the new fees would exceed the new club's costs, and whether the new club could afford to pay the coach more than the old club could.

JustForFun
06-25-2007, 12:21 PM
Hi Blue Devil,

Joking with the written word is not easy (people can not see the smile on my face). Some jokes are dry, some are obtuse, some are just plain bad. In the case in point, Guest liked my joke, Nutmegs did not (FSM was too busy waxing her legs to reply!!!!). I do not take the posts on this board personally or seriously, so if I poke a little fun in attempt to loosen things up and help others laugh at the threads or themselves, I think I have helped. Is that "stirring the pot"? For some possibly it is, but when you tell a joke to an open community it is impossible for everyone to laugh - the audience is too large and the joke can not meet everyone in all places. Nutmeg thinks I am an awful person that likes it when kids smash each others heads in. Oh well - Nutmeg will laugh some day and then he might like me.

Hey Blue Devil - why don't you tell us a joke? I warn you it is not easy and someone will get upset!!!

06-25-2007, 12:27 PM
FSM wrote:
At age 15 she needs teammates that can provide her with a challenge during training. It looked as though the Bolts could no longer provide that, but the Stars could.


If it's the same coach and same team, how will the training be any more of a challenge? Will they try harder because they'll be wearing Stars training shirts?

There seems to be a certain blame-the-victim mentality at work on this subject. (Yes, I know it's ironic, since the "victim" here is the Bolts, which has absorbed its own share of other teams.) It's all the Bolts' fault! But fortunately, the Stars are there to offer comfort.

FSM
06-25-2007, 12:45 PM
I wish the Grand Dame of Youth Soccer well as she looks on with pride as her daughetr can now finally pull on the coveted Stars jersey. I hope she's done more research on her new club than she did on the old one. One year and done, and she's trashing the old one on the way out the door.

Bones/Rooney/Onion Bag/4-4-2 or whatever new name you come up with the next time you post, your argument it so off the wall, it is pathetic and I don't even know why I bother responding. This has nothing to do with "coveting" the Stars. The Bolts GU15 team are still conducting their tryouts so we don't know what the composition of that team will be, but it would be safe to say it will be different. Should I have taken the chance that they could field a MAPLE D1 team when the coaching assignment was announced so close to tryouts that even the new coach couldn't make it?

At age 15 she needs teammates that can provide her with a challenge during training. It looked as though the Bolts could no longer provide that, but the Stars could.

If it's the same coach and same team, how will the training be any more of a challenge? Will they try harder because they'll be wearing Stars training shirts?

How about for starters having the opportunity to regularly play in instructional games the team that has a good chance of winning Region 1?

FSM
06-25-2007, 12:50 PM
Hi Blue Devil,

Joking with the written word is not easy (people can not see the smile on my face). Some jokes are dry, some are obtuse, some are just plain bad. In the case in point, Guest liked my joke, Nutmegs did not (FSM was too busy waxing her legs to reply!!!!). I do not take the posts on this board personally or seriously, so if I poke a little fun in attempt to loosen things up and help others laugh at the threads or themselves, I think I have helped. Is that "stirring the pot"? For some possibly it is, but when you tell a joke to an open community it is impossible for everyone to laugh - the audience is too large and the joke can not meet everyone in all places. Nutmeg thinks I am an awful person that likes it when kids smash each others heads in. Oh well - Nutmeg will laugh some day and then he might like me.

Hey Blue Devil - why don't you tell us a joke? I warn you it is not easy and someone will get upset!!!

I'm starting to think JustForFun is not Onion Bag, but Mr. Stats.

06-25-2007, 12:58 PM
I know quite a bit of the Redmond move from the Bolts to the Stars. I can tell you the fulll truth has not come out. It would not paint a very pretty picture of Redmond, the loyalist parents or the Bolts for that matter.

What kind of picture would it paint of the Stars?

Cujo
06-25-2007, 01:05 PM
Hi Blue Devil,

Joking with the written word is not easy (people can not see the smile on my face). Some jokes are dry, some are obtuse, some are just plain bad. In the case in point, Guest liked my joke, Nutmegs did not (FSM was too busy waxing her legs to reply!!!!). I do not take the posts on this board personally or seriously, so if I poke a little fun in attempt to loosen things up and help others laugh at the threads or themselves, I think I have helped. Is that "stirring the pot"? For some possibly it is, but when you tell a joke to an open community it is impossible for everyone to laugh - the audience is too large and the joke can not meet everyone in all places. Nutmeg thinks I am an awful person that likes it when kids smash each others heads in. Oh well - Nutmeg will laugh some day and then he might like me.

Hey Blue Devil - why don't you tell us a joke? I warn you it is not easy and someone will get upset!!!

I'm starting to think JustForFun is not Onion Bag, but Mr. Stats.

I think the US will move up to the top 10 in world ranking following the victory over Mexico. Donovan has regained his old spark and now can assume his rightful place along with Pele Maradona and others. MSL is now one of the world's best leagues. That should flush him out!!!!!!!!

06-25-2007, 01:40 PM
Blue Devil,

Joking with the written word is not easy (people can not see the smile on my face). Some jokes are dry, some are obtuse, some are just plain bad. In the case in point, Guest liked my joke, Nutmegs did not (FSM was too busy waxing her legs to reply!!!!). I do not take the posts on this board personally or seriously, so if I poke a little fun in attempt to loosen things up and help others laugh at the threads or themselves, I think I have helped. Is that "stirring the pot"? For some possibly it is, but when you tell a joke to an open community it is impossible for everyone to laugh - the audience is too large and the joke can not meet everyone in all places. Nutmeg thinks I am an awful person that likes it when kids smash each others heads in. Oh well - Nutmeg will laugh some day and then he might like me.

Hey Blue Devil - why don't you tell us a joke? I warn you it is not easy and someone will get upset!!!

I'm starting to think JustForFun is not Onion Bag, but Mr. Stats.

Is it me, or does she always seem to accuse posters of being someone else whenever her actions/opinions gets challenged?

FSM
06-25-2007, 02:28 PM
No Mrs Butterworth, or is it really Mrs Bones/Mrs Just For Fun. Only when it is Stats and Onion Bag involved who have a distinct pattern of content and context. Would you like examples? I'll start a new thread so as not to bore those who aren't interested.

JustForFun
06-25-2007, 02:32 PM
Donovan is very overrated and MLS is a bush league!!!!

I am not Mr. Stats, but a great fan of his. Let's see Mr. Stats - lanky, tall, wirey, round glasses, big chin, large feet. And the hair is stringy and unmanageable sticking out everywhere!!!!

Great guy. We love FSM, but we love Mr. Stats too. WHERE ARE YOU MR. STATS?

PS I am starting to really enjoy Cujo

06-26-2007, 04:00 PM
I know quite a bit of the Redmond move from the Bolts to the Stars. I can tell you the fulll truth has not come out. It would not paint a very pretty picture of Redmond, the loyalist parents or the Bolts for that matter.

What kind of picture would it paint of the Stars?

First I don’t know the story from Stars point of view; they may have only heard one side of it and may have not made a fully informed decision. It is pretty clear that the whole thing was calculated and orchestrated which couldn’t be done without the Stars involvement and cooperation. If the Stars knew all the dirt I can’t help but think they would have stayed away. I would not be surprised if there comes a time where they will regret this. Only time will tell.

06-26-2007, 09:20 PM
I know quite a bit of the Redmond move from the Bolts to the Stars. I can tell you the fulll truth has not come out. It would not paint a very pretty picture of Redmond, the loyalist parents or the Bolts for that matter.

What kind of picture would it paint of the Stars?

First I don’t know the story from Stars point of view; they may have only heard one side of it and may have not made a fully informed decision. It is pretty clear that the whole thing was calculated and orchestrated which couldn’t be done without the Stars involvement and cooperation. If the Stars knew all the dirt I can’t help but think they would have stayed away. I would not be surprised if there comes a time where they will regret this. Only time will tell.

Thanks for the reply.

06-26-2007, 09:48 PM
I cannot believe that no one has mentioned and questioned how the head coach from FC United U12s moved with some of the players to the Bolts. How do you think FC United feel? Obviousy something underhand happened with Bolts recruiting the coach. All I read is bashing of the sitution between Redmond and Stars. I am really surprised this has not come up.

06-27-2007, 06:40 AM
I cannot believe that no one has mentioned and questioned how the head coach from FC United U12s moved with some of the players to the Bolts. How do you think FC United feel? Obviousy something underhand happened with Bolts recruiting the coach. All I read is bashing of the sitution between Redmond and Stars. I am really surprised this has not come up.

And who would that be? I don't see any new coaches listed on their web site.

06-27-2007, 08:48 AM
Dan Colwell. He lives in Boston, so the travel will be easier for him at the Bolts.

06-27-2007, 09:29 AM
Dan Colwell. He lives in Boston, so the travel will be easier for him at the Bolts.

We've lowered ourselves to slamming an assistant coach for moving?

06-27-2007, 09:52 AM
Dan Colwell. He lives in Boston, so the travel will be easier for him at the Bolts.

We've lowered ourselves to slamming an assistant coach for moving?

Whose slamming the assistant coach? Ever drive out of Boston at 5 o'clock?

06-27-2007, 10:01 AM
I cannot believe that no one has mentioned and questioned how the head coach from FC United U12s moved with some of the players to the Bolts. How do you think FC United feel? Obviousy something underhand happened with Bolts recruiting the coach. All I read is bashing of the sitution between Redmond and Stars. I am really surprised this has not come up.
Actually, most criticism on this topic has been of the situation between Redmond and the Bolts. Little attention has been paid to the Stars' role.

06-27-2007, 10:20 AM
Dan Colwell. He lives in Boston, so the travel will be easier for him at the Bolts.

We've lowered ourselves to slamming an assistant coach for moving?

Whose slamming the assistant coach? Ever drive out of Boston at 5 o'clock?

You misunderstand. I referred to the people here slamming the coach.

06-27-2007, 12:12 PM
"I cannot believe that no one has mentioned and questioned how the head coach from FC United U12s moved with some of the players to the Bolts. How do you think FC United feel? Obviousy something underhand happened with Bolts recruiting the coach. All I read is bashing of the sitution between Redmond and Stars. I am really surprised this has not come up."

Really? It is obvious that something underhand happened with the Bolts recruiting the coach? He left a head coaching position to become an assistant coach with the Bolts. He lives in Boston. With no disrespect to FC United, the Bolts, especially on the boys' side, are one of the top clubs. So his choice to work for them must be the result of some underhanded move by the Bolts?

C'mon...really?

06-27-2007, 12:24 PM
"I cannot believe that no one has mentioned and questioned how the head coach from FC United U12s moved with some of the players to the Bolts. How do you think FC United feel? Obviousy something underhand happened with Bolts recruiting the coach. All I read is bashing of the sitution between Redmond and Stars. I am really surprised this has not come up."

Really? It is obvious that something underhand happened with the Bolts recruiting the coach? He left a head coaching position to become an assistant coach with the Bolts. He lives in Boston. With no disrespect to FC United, the Bolts, especially on the boys' side, are one of the top clubs. So his choice to work for them must be the result of some underhanded move by the Bolts?

C'mon...really?

Such is the hatred for the Bolts I guess.......

06-27-2007, 12:40 PM
Amazing how hated they are, at least by posters here.

Here's something I'd like to know - if they are so club-first, players-second, how is it that they are allowing Francis O to continue to coach at Regionals, despite the fact that he is actively recruiting every player he can from the Bolts to leave with him and go to the Blazers? Maybe it's because they are thinking of the team and the disruption this would cause for these kids at such a critical time?

I am so tired of hearing how it's all the clubs fault, never are any of these coaches to blame for being unethical.

Fabio
06-27-2007, 12:52 PM
Amazing how hated they are, at least by posters here.

Here's something I'd like to know - if they are so club-first, players-second, how is it that they are allowing Francis O to continue to coach at Regionals, despite the fact that he is actively recruiting every player he can from the Bolts to leave with him and go to the Blazers? Maybe it's because they are thinking of the team and the disruption this would cause for these kids at such a critical time?

I am so tired of hearing how it's all the clubs fault, never are any of these coaches to blame for being unethical.

Do you think that forcing the coach out prior to regionals would actually promote retention of players on the club or create more solidarity with their coach who some might feel brought them to the door and then was shown the door? It may not be as simple as you portray.

I don't hate the bolts, or that coach. Not directly invested in what is going on, but at Lancaster you could cut the air between that club and the coach with a knife...and that was what I was able to observe with my own eyes from a field's width away. I hope we can all agree that it is a shame for the players' sake this is going on now.

06-27-2007, 12:58 PM
This is how simple it is Fabio - he is recruiting players to leave with him on every team, at every age group he coached. Girls and boys. There is absolutely tension between him and the club, and this is why.

The Bolts are allowing him to continue to coach despite the fact that with each training session, game, or event he has the ability to recruit even more. They are taking a huge chance in doing this, and I do truly believe that it is for the sake of the kids, not the club.

By the way, how many clubs would have fired him already?

In the interest of full disclosure, my kid plays for the evil empire that many seem to bash. He has played there through the academy program and is staying with the club, not going with the coach. I do not think that any coach can be an island, and from what I've seen the choice of leaving an established club that we've been happy with just does not make sense, despite the fact that we enjoyed this coach. Up until all this nonsense started.

JustForFun
06-27-2007, 01:23 PM
Fabio wrote:

I hope we can all agree that it is a shame for the players' sake this is going on now.

Coach's leave all the time. Why is it a shame for the player's sake that this is going on now? When the coach left the Bolts and went to the Stars that was a shame for the players? And when the FC United coach went to the Bolts, that was a shame for the players? We can not expect coaches to always stay - in this case the coach is getting the opportunity to be the DOC or President of Blazers and the Bolts do not have that opportunity for him. So he changes. When can the coach change and not effect players? At the end of every season I send the coach a note of thanks and ask if she/he will be back? I know how quickly the coach has responded to me in the past, so if there is a delay in the coach answering, I know something is up.

The way Premier soccer is set up, every child on every team is a Free Agent at the completion of the team's last Spring game. Why is everything left up to the coaches? I know the day my kid is a Free Agent, I know that my kid expects me to look out after them (parents can think of themselves as a Agent for their kids), so I ask the coach if she/he is staying (sometimes I hope they are staying, other times I hope they are leaving!), and I ask if my kid is on the bubble and should we go try out at other clubs? How hard is that? I do not ask for a committment or an invitation, just simply is my kid on the bubble or would it be a good idea if we go try out for another team. And on a couple of occasions I called up, thanked the coach for their work and let them know we were not going back to tryouts.

If kids are shocked and not eating for a week, the parents have to take some responsibility other than blame the coach. Coaches can not move because it is bad for the kids, coaches drop kids in unprofessional fashion, coaches are blah, blah blah. Of course there are good and bad coaches, but what about the parents? The coaches have absolute power and the parents are helpless to help their kids?

I am not trying to be argumentative with Fabio. In this one case I think it is bad for the U16Bs because I think they (and the girls as well) should have coaching continuity from U16 to U17. Other than that, coaches are free to go or stay. And the kids as Free Agents are free to go or stay. And the parents are free to talk to the coaches so there are no surprises.

Fabio
06-27-2007, 01:25 PM
This is how simple it is Fabio - he is recruiting players to leave with him on every team, at every age group he coached. Girls and boys. There is absolutely tension between him and the club, and this is why.

The Bolts are allowing him to continue to coach despite the fact that with each training session, game, or event he has the ability to recruit even more. They are taking a huge chance in doing this, and I do truly believe that it is for the sake of the kids, not the club.

By the way, how many clubs would have fired him already?

In the interest of full disclosure, my kid plays for the evil empire that many seem to bash. He has played there through the academy program and is staying with the club, not going with the coach. I do not think that any coach can be an island, and from what I've seen the choice of leaving an established club that we've been happy with just does not make sense, despite the fact that we enjoyed this coach. Up until all this nonsense started.

I sympathize with your point and allow that if I represented the club, I wonder if I would have let him proceed this way. What I was trying to get at is that by taking the high road, perhaps the club will retain a few more players than they would if they bounced the coach. I certainly hope that is the case if the club is trying to do right by the kids. In any case, sounds like enough players are leaving that it is a finger in the dyke situation for the club. Unfortunately, it seems like a lose-lose scenario for the club.

Fabio
06-27-2007, 01:38 PM
Fabio wrote:

I hope we can all agree that it is a shame for the players' sake this is going on now.

Coach's leave all the time. Why is it a shame for the player's sake that this is going on now? .....

I am not trying to be argumentative with Fabio.

Whoah now....I never said it is a shame for the players' sake that a coach is leaving. The shame i refer to is the comportment of the individuals involved. At more than one game at Lancaster, the DOC set up his chair in the players' side, but at the eighteen near the opponents bench, not his own team's. I think that is a shame, plain and simple. Maybe I live in a fantasy world, but I would hope that the parties involved could avoid such an obvious statement while the teams are actually on the field. People have acrimonius divorces all the time. Some behave well for the sake of the rest of their families, others play out their hostilities in full view of their children, friends, etc.

The focus should have been on the field, plain and simple. That's the shame for the players I refer to.

From what I hear, things have only gotten worse since then. Hope they keep it under wraps at regionals.

06-27-2007, 01:42 PM
Fabio,
Thanks for the explanation. I hope that the kids will see it in that way, as the club being loyal to them despite the actions of the exiting coach. I also do not know that many that have already decided to follow him, just that he is actively recruiting them. I think the Bolts will be just fine.

Regarding the post about the parents responsibility, this is another issue that drives me crazy. Especially in terms of this time of year. If you don't cut, people complain about the "3rd stringers" hurting the team. If you do cut, you are cut-throat mercenaries who are damaging kids. And yet parents have their kids club-hop if they think the grass is greener in terms of wins and losses.

I'm glad I don't coach. Good luck to those that do in this climate.

Cujo
06-27-2007, 01:50 PM
Fabio wrote:

I hope we can all agree that it is a shame for the players' sake this is going on now.

Coach's leave all the time. Why is it a shame for the player's sake that this is going on now? When the coach left the Bolts and went to the Stars that was a shame for the players? And when the FC United coach went to the Bolts, that was a shame for the players? We can not expect coaches to always stay - in this case the coach is getting the opportunity to be the DOC or President of Blazers and the Bolts do not have that opportunity for him. So he changes. When can the coach change and not effect players? At the end of every season I send the coach a note of thanks and ask if she/he will be back? I know how quickly the coach has responded to me in the past, so if there is a delay in the coach answering, I know something is up.

The way Premier soccer is set up, every child on every team is a Free Agent at the completion of the team's last Spring game. Why is everything left up to the coaches? I know the day my kid is a Free Agent, I know that my kid expects me to look out after them (parents can think of themselves as a Agent for their kids), so I ask the coach if she/he is staying (sometimes I hope they are staying, other times I hope they are leaving!), and I ask if my kid is on the bubble and should we go try out at other clubs? How hard is that? I do not ask for a committment or an invitation, just simply is my kid on the bubble or would it be a good idea if we go try out for another team. And on a couple of occasions I called up, thanked the coach for their work and let them know we were not going back to tryouts.

If kids are shocked and not eating for a week, the parents have to take some responsibility other than blame the coach. Coaches can not move because it is bad for the kids, coaches drop kids in unprofessional fashion, coaches are blah, blah blah. Of course there are good and bad coaches, but what about the parents? The coaches have absolute power and the parents are helpless to help their kids?

I am not trying to be argumentative with Fabio. In this one case I think it is bad for the U16Bs because I think they (and the girls as well) should have coaching continuity from U16 to U17. Other than that, coaches are free to go or stay. And the kids as Free Agents are free to go or stay. And the parents are free to talk to the coaches so there are no surprises.

I agree to you with some extent. As a parent you need to be an advocate for your child. You do this at school and in helping them make their way through the social maze. I think the point at which it becomes a problem is that if it is being done because the coach has totally abdicated his role in communicating how a player is doing. It is really easy to get caught up with managing your team. Clubs that place too much administrative burden on coaches help create circumstances where it is difficult for coaches to communicate with parents and players. Still - no player should ever be surprised during tryouts that a coach feels that they are not playing up to the level they need to be playing at. Those discussions should be held with the player during the season. I am amazed at how many coaches fail to explain to a player why they are getting a certain amount of playing time. These are children and what is obvious to an adult is not obvious to a child. These are not little adults. They have a million things going on in their lives and the ways of the adult world are still largely a mystery to them. That being said they do have an innate sense of fairness. You can't slide that curve ball by them.

JustForFun
06-27-2007, 01:53 PM
Fabio Wrote:

The focus should have been on the field, plain and simple.

Agreed 100%. Sorry I misunderstood.

I do think some parents have to start seeing themselves as part of the process, not victims of the process.

Cujo
06-27-2007, 01:54 PM
Fabio,
Thanks for the explanation. I hope that the kids will see it in that way, as the club being loyal to them despite the actions of the exiting coach. I also do not know that many that have already decided to follow him, just that he is actively recruiting them. I think the Bolts will be just fine.

Regarding the post about the parents responsibility, this is another issue that drives me crazy. Especially in terms of this time of year. If you don't cut, people complain about the "3rd stringers" hurting the team. If you do cut, you are cut-throat mercenaries who are damaging kids. And yet parents have their kids club-hop if they think the grass is greener in terms of wins and losses.

I'm glad I don't coach. Good luck to those that do in this climate.

Add to that DOC's telling you who to cut and who to play after they spend 10 mintues at a practice or watch one half of a game. I never provided my practice schedule to the DOC. Their presence only made my life more difficult. As for the parents? Most were great but it was the bottom 10% that made my hair turn gray. I am 18 months into my coaching hiatus and that is one thing I do not miss. The parents who know everything because they watch FSNE a few days per week and can name the starting outside midfielders for the Hotspurs.

06-27-2007, 04:01 PM
Add to that DOC's telling you who to cut and who to play after they spend 10 mintues at a practice or watch one half of a game. I never provided my practice schedule to the DOC. Their presence only made my life more difficult.

Cujo .. This is the sort of mindset that creates many of these situations. In the business world, if an employee failed to recognize their supervisor's authority in the manner you describe they would not be exactly well thought of. When a person coaches in a club why shouldn't they show the same level of respect to the supervising coach as they would an employer? Don't you think it might be a little hard to get any sort of synergy going within a club when coaches act as you prescribe? Is idea that the coaches individual brillance should trump fulfilling the club's expectations. It's just this sort of thinking that rips apart teams and puts the kids in the middle.

beentheredonethat
06-27-2007, 04:04 PM
Didn't mean to come off as a anonymous coward. The above post was mine, forgot to log in.

06-27-2007, 04:13 PM
Fabio wrote:

I hope we can all agree that it is a shame for the players' sake this is going on now.

Coach's leave all the time. Why is it a shame for the player's sake that this is going on now? When the coach left the Bolts and went to the Stars that was a shame for the players? And when the FC United coach went to the Bolts, that was a shame for the players? We can not expect coaches to always stay - in this case the coach is getting the opportunity to be the DOC or President of Blazers and the Bolts do not have that opportunity for him. So he changes. When can the coach change and not effect players? At the end of every season I send the coach a note of thanks and ask if she/he will be back? I know how quickly the coach has responded to me in the past, so if there is a delay in the coach answering, I know something is up.

The way Premier soccer is set up, every child on every team is a Free Agent at the completion of the team's last Spring game. Why is everything left up to the coaches? I know the day my kid is a Free Agent, I know that my kid expects me to look out after them (parents can think of themselves as a Agent for their kids), so I ask the coach if she/he is staying (sometimes I hope they are staying, other times I hope they are leaving!), and I ask if my kid is on the bubble and should we go try out at other clubs? How hard is that? I do not ask for a committment or an invitation, just simply is my kid on the bubble or would it be a good idea if we go try out for another team. And on a couple of occasions I called up, thanked the coach for their work and let them know we were not going back to tryouts.

If kids are shocked and not eating for a week, the parents have to take some responsibility other than blame the coach. Coaches can not move because it is bad for the kids, coaches drop kids in unprofessional fashion, coaches are blah, blah blah. Of course there are good and bad coaches, but what about the parents? The coaches have absolute power and the parents are helpless to help their kids?

I am not trying to be argumentative with Fabio. In this one case I think it is bad for the U16Bs because I think they (and the girls as well) should have coaching continuity from U16 to U17. Other than that, coaches are free to go or stay. And the kids as Free Agents are free to go or stay. And the parents are free to talk to the coaches so there are no surprises.

Lets not forget those instances where kids look around for another club, and are virtually coerced into staying when the coaches here they are looking elsewhere. Much better to keep the kids, than to let them seek out a more suitable situation.

Cujo
06-27-2007, 09:14 PM
Add to that DOC's telling you who to cut and who to play after they spend 10 mintues at a practice or watch one half of a game. I never provided my practice schedule to the DOC. Their presence only made my life more difficult.

Cujo .. This is the sort of mindset that creates many of these situations. In the business world, if an employee failed to recognize their supervisor's authority in the manner you describe they would not be exactly well thought of. When a person coaches in a club why shouldn't they show the same level of respect to the supervising coach as they would an employer? Don't you think it might be a little hard to get any sort of synergy going within a club when coaches act as you prescribe? Is idea that the coaches individual brillance should trump fulfilling the club's expectations. It's just this sort of thinking that rips apart teams and puts the kids in the middle.

My boss used to think he knew more than I did. I have been working in my profession for 28 years. I got this new boss three years ago. He ignored my advice and thought I was an idiot. After getting his butt kicked in three successive Board meetings he decided to start listening to me. He is smart enough now to realize that I have the ability to make him look good. I just cut a deal that made our business six million dollars in new revenue this year. I let him take the credit but I got a nice raise. He would have been incapable of doing the analysis of the market to know how to produce that kind of revenue bump. A good boss is smart enough to hire good people, give them the tools they need to succeed and then get the hell out of the way. Most DOC's do not spend enough time with any single squad to know enough about an individual player to evaluate them. He should be watching the coach and not the players. A DOC has zero business telling a coach what to do with his players. If they do not approve of the way I coach that is fine but I would tell any DOC who tried to tell me who to play and what to do to get lost. That is not their role. If you do not like my performance get rid of me but do not tell me how to run my team. I am happy to accept advice from the DOC about how to improve my training sessions but if they try to interfere on the sidelines there will be trouble. Undermining a coach in front of his players is a big mistake.

beentheredonethat
06-27-2007, 10:03 PM
Congratulations on your business success. I don't suppose that you are ever wrong or that your objectives run cross purpose to the organization. Apparently your view of the world is all that matters and everyone else is a moron. What club are you taking a hiatus from?

Cujo
06-28-2007, 09:20 AM
Congratulations on your business success. I don't suppose that you are ever wrong or that your objectives run cross purpose to the organization. Apparently your view of the world is all that matters and everyone else is a moron. What club are you taking a hiatus from?

Well I am right more than my boss was. Now he is taking advice from his staff and not surprisingly he understands that he can learn from the veterans.

And I am right about soccer issues more than I am wrong. I know that my views diverge from the cut-throat tactics of the recruit first coaches. I do what is best for my players first. I never recruited a player that belonged to another club. I never cut a player that worked hard and was committed. This is why I left my original club (now defunct / or more acurately reformed with new name and management). They cared about money first, prestige second, mollycoddling prima donna coaches third, and the players last. I co-managed a three to four team club with another set of coaches for three years. There was no Board - no DOC - only coaches and players and it was wonderful. I left because I was burned out after coaching year-round for 12 years and decided to spend the fall of my hiatus watching my daughter and her college team play. Got to see a lot of nice campuses across New England and to sit in the stands, be a fan, and enjoy the game. To further my enjoyment I sat by myself or with my wife away from the other parents. I will return to coach soon. I do not have the temperment to deal with D1 parent mentality. I leave that to other coaches who are better suited than I in terms of knowledge of the game and with the temperment to cut kids that had been loyal to them for years. I can't and won't do that. In my world development of players is the only reason that I coach. If I can't put my players first then I will not coach. This is not for everyone and I recognize that.

08-30-2007, 10:30 AM
"I cannot believe that no one has mentioned and questioned how the head coach from FC United U12s moved with some of the players to the Bolts. How do you think FC United feel? Obviousy something underhand happened with Bolts recruiting the coach. All I read is bashing of the sitution between Redmond and Stars. I am really surprised this has not come up."

Really? It is obvious that something underhand happened with the Bolts recruiting the coach? He left a head coaching position to become an assistant coach with the Bolts. He lives in Boston. With no disrespect to FC United, the Bolts, especially on the boys' side, are one of the top clubs. So his choice to work for them must be the result of some underhanded move by the Bolts?

C'mon...really?

So, now that the dust has presumably settled. How large was the roster turnover for these two teams?