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06-12-2007, 02:13 PM
In the last two years I have had daughters play in all three age groups (GU-14 to GU-16), although this year none are through to the semi-finals. However, I have seen quite a bit of all the teams in these groups so I will venture into some analysis.

The U-16 group is by far the group with the deepest and most consistent talent. This is the third straight year for these four teams. Truly, any of these four teams could end up winning the whole thing. The Stars have been the class so far, and it will take a very strong effort to knock them out. Especially on a big, dry, turf field. They are strong everywhere, including their bench. I have seen some Aztecs teams concentrate on possession for the sake of possession. This Aztecs team is a little less likely to worry about ball control and more likely to play a counter-attacking style. They have a good mix of athleticism and skill and are strong in the defensive middle. If they get down early against the Stars they will struggle, but if they can keep the Stars off the board they have a great chance to win. The Pioneers/ SS Select game shapes up to be a real even match. The Pioneers have played very well all year and played one of the best teams in the Region (Albertson) essentially even earlier this spring. This is the fourth straight year the Selects have made the semis, but they have lost the last two. I think their hunger to get back into the finals will prevail this year.

The U-15 group also features four great teams. Stars have great individual talent and will really be helped by the big turf field. Their depth and ball control can really wear a team down on that surface. Crusaders are a solid, well coached team. For them to win I think they will need to get some results out of set plays and play a bend but don’t break defense. Much like the U-16Stars/Aztecs game if Stars get up early it will be a struggle for the Crusaders. Scorpions beat the Pioneers 4-2 on turf earlier in the year. However, a lot can change over two months. The team that best handles the heat will win this game.

The U-14 group is pretty well examined on this site. Mathman has his ratings and recurring posters weigh in pretty regularly. It would be a lot of fun to see the Scorpions and Stars face off in the final. They are both great teams. I got a chance to see a little of a Stars game in Amherst. What struck me was the wave of offense that they send from their strikers and outside middies. They also use the entire field better than any other team in all three of these age groups. The fly in the ointment is that the Bolts are also a very strong team. They are very well coached and have players that can unquestionably execute a game plan to try to slow down the Stars attack and counter with their big strong forwards. Obviously the Scorpions have a very special player but they are very deep everywhere else. They are especially solid in the defensive middle. They play with great pace. Although not as offensively dangerous as the Stars, they have won a lot of big games and will enter with lots of confidence. Hamlets are a big physical team that might have some problems with the Scorps on the big turf field, especially if it gets hot early. Their big advantage is the hope that they can get the Scorps looking past them to Sunday.

Blue Devil
06-12-2007, 05:08 PM
Carmac -

Very enjoyable read - good work.

06-12-2007, 07:03 PM
pretty amazing that this is the same group of four teams in the 16 group for third straight year. Maybe this is the year that someone gets to the Stars.

06-12-2007, 09:20 PM
My 10 cents for the girls

u12 Tri Valley
u13 Scorps
U14 Scorps/Stars sorry have to sit on the fence too close to call
u15 Stars
u16 Stars

Thats as far as I go in any knowledge of the age groups. Should be a great weekend of soccer

06-12-2007, 09:23 PM
Is it the same teams that get to the final 4 in each age group? does anyone have stats of the previous finals 4's for these age groups? Is it a trend or a sign of the development clubs.

Susy Soccer
06-12-2007, 09:34 PM
You can find the stats on the MYSA site here -

http://www.mayouthsoccer.org/pages/66_state_cup.cfm

at the bottom under previous state cups.

06-12-2007, 09:41 PM
2006 Results

http://www.mayouthsoccer.org/pages/1858 ... up_Results (http://www.mayouthsoccer.org/pages/1858_state_cup_review.cfm?searchterm=State_Cup_Res ults)


2004 Results

http://www.mayouthsoccer.org/pages/438_ ... up_Results (http://www.mayouthsoccer.org/pages/438_2004_state_cup_results.cfm?searchterm=State_Cu p_Results)

Can't find any other years archived.

06-12-2007, 09:43 PM
Never mind - see SS post.

FSM
06-13-2007, 09:21 AM
Is it the same teams that get to the final 4 in each age group? does anyone have stats of the previous finals 4's for these age groups? Is it a trend or a sign of the development clubs.

That's an interesting question, so I had to find the answer. :D Unfortunately following the link that Suzy Soccer gave MYSA does not have results beyond 2004, despite showing 2003 and 2002 and they've posted the 2006 semi-final results under 2005, so I'm only including finals for that year. So for age groups U13 through U19, and years 2004 through 2006, here's how the various clubs did (C=Champions, F=Finalist, S=Semi-finalist). And just to give it an admittedly inaccurate quantitative value, I assigned points (3 for championship, 2 for finalist, 1 for semi-finalist):

Bolts: 11 C, 4 F, 1 S 42 pts
Stars: 5 C, 3 F, 1 S 22 pts
Scorpions: 5 C, 1 F, 2 S 19 pts
Western United: 4 C, 6 F, 6 S 30 pts
MPS: 3 C, 2 F, 10 S 23 pts
Crusaders: 2 C, 2 F, 4 S 14 pts
Juventus: 2 C, 2 F, 1 S 11 pts
South Shore: 2 C, 1 F, 2 S 10 pts
Eagles: 2 C, 1 F, 2 S 10 pts
FC United: 2 C, 0 F, 1 S 7 pts
SS United Blazers: 1C, 3 F, 3 S 12 pts
CRU: 1 C, 2 F, 1 S 8 pts
Freedom: 1 C 3 pts
Nova: 1 C 3 pts
Spirit: 4 F 8 pts
Aztec: 2 F, 2 S 6 pts
SUNS: 2 F 4 pts
Inter Bandits: 1 F, 5 S 7 pts
Blast: 1 F, 2 S 4 pts
Nor'easter: 1 F, 2 S 4 pts
Fuller Hamlets: 1 F, 1 S 3 pts
Pioneers: 1 F, 1 S 3 pts
Dragons: 1 F 2 pts
Olympique: 1 F 2 pts
KICS: 1 S 1 pt
Galway: 1 S 1 pt
Puma: 1 S 1 pt

06-13-2007, 09:25 AM
Thanks for chasing this down. How does it look by gender?

Did the original question query about the same clubs being in the semis or the same teams?

FSM
06-13-2007, 09:32 AM
I can break it down by gender and will do so a little later. As you might suspect, the Bolts were strongest on the boys side, Stars and Scorpions on the girls. I was really surprised how well MPS has done and it's not just girls. 2006 was a good year for them. They had 1 championship (GU19) and 6 teams to make the semis, 3 were boys (BU15, BU17, BU19).

I think the original question was clubs, but you allude to a good point about teams. However, I'll leave that to someone else to determine.

Hammer
06-13-2007, 09:38 AM
The u16 age group....I believe it is the same teams.

Top 4 teams are very close but with different styles

The past 3 years goes as followed I think:

U13 Select Champs Stars finalists Aztec and WMP Semis
U14 Stars Champs Aztecs Finalist Select and WMP Semis
U15 Stars Champs WMP FInalist Select and Aztecs Semis

then you look at recent scores that I know of and understand that they are just scores and we do not know the particulars for each game:

Spring MAPLE Aztecs 1 Select 0
Round robin Select 1 Stars 1
Round Robin WMP 0 Aztecs 0

Then if you at recent tournament scores that some of these teams attended and you will see that these teams are all very close.

These will be 3 great games this weekend.

06-13-2007, 11:35 AM
correction-
it was actually Western United (a team now folded) in the U13 Semis in 2004 not the Pioneers.
however you are correct in that the last 3 years it has been the Pios, SSS, Stars and Aztecs, (last 4 for SSS, Stars, and Aztecs)

butkusfan
06-13-2007, 05:13 PM
Hats off to Carmac, a pretty nice job. Using the various prognostication services at my disposal I offer the following as finals match-ups.

U-13

Scorpions v. Stars

U-14

Scorpions v. Stars

U-15

Scorpions v. Stars

U-16

Select v. Stars

U-17

Scorpions v. Bolts

In essense this will mean that there are no real upsets, which in itself is unusual but I think based on the projected weather and field conditions it will hold true.

Liverpoolfan
06-14-2007, 09:56 AM
There could be upsets in many age groups especially U13, U14 and U16. Nothing is certain in state cup.

06-14-2007, 10:05 AM
anyone have any thoughts on the boys finals

06-14-2007, 10:08 AM
Boys play soccer in this state?

Liverpoolfan
06-14-2007, 10:14 AM
Bolts in every age group for boys, maybe a upset in the boys U13 with Expo's

Liverpoolfan
06-14-2007, 10:15 AM
Bolts in every age group for boys, maybe a upset in the boys U13 with Expo's

Liverpoolfan
06-14-2007, 10:15 AM
Bolts in every age group for boys, maybe a upset in the boys U13 with Expo's

Liverpoolfan
06-14-2007, 10:21 AM
On the boys side Bolts in every age group, maybe an upset with the Expos at U13

06-14-2007, 10:21 AM
Bolts in every age group for boys, maybe a upset in the boys U13 with Expo's

Don't know if the Expos win would be an upset ion U13. Didn't they beat them during the spring season?

06-14-2007, 10:27 AM
Bolts in every age group for boys, maybe a upset in the boys U13 with Expo's

Has a clean sweep ever been done before?

06-14-2007, 10:30 AM
Bolts in every age group for boys, maybe a upset in the boys U13 with Expo's

Don't know if the Expos win would be an upset ion U13. Didn't they beat them during the spring season?

Not to mention beating them in the RR....

06-14-2007, 10:32 AM
Bolts are unlikely to win the State Cup at BU19.

06-14-2007, 10:43 AM
The Bolts know how to win big games though. I would not be surprised if they had a clean sweep.

06-14-2007, 10:45 AM
Bolts in every age group for boys, maybe a upset in the boys U13 with Expo's

Don't know if the Expos win would be an upset ion U13. Didn't they beat them during the spring season?

Get the Bolts on a large field and theres no stopping them. We played both this spring and while lost to both, could see the Bolts were the better team. Deeper bench.

butkusfan
06-14-2007, 10:49 AM
When it comes to upsets there are degrees. For example I think it would be considered an upset if the U-15 Stars don't win the State Cup. However, if it is the Scorpions who beat them it would be a small upset as many observers see that game as a pick'em. If the Crusaders were to beat them it would be considered a bigger upset. For the Crusaders to win the entire State Cup it would be an even larger upset as they would need to gain upsets in both the semi-finals and finals. I happen to think the biggest upset would be the Hamlets winning at U-14. That isn't to say that they are a bad team - they are strong team that would be very competitve with most teams in the region. Problem is that their opponents are incredibly strong and so I think they have the most difficult path to a championship. Of course we are talking about teenage girls here. Anything is possible. That is why one of the least likely results is no "upsets" at all. Weather looks good, hopefully no one is injured. It should be a great weekend of soccer - at a great new complex.

FSM
06-14-2007, 10:56 AM
Thanks for chasing this down. How does it look by gender?

Did the original question query about the same clubs being in the semis or the same teams?

Did a tally by gender. Haven't done a thorough recheck as I've been awfully busy multi-tasking in my kitchen this morning, but figure these numbers are close enough.

BOYS
Bolts 11 C, 2 F 37 pts
Western United 4 C, 4 F, 3 S 23 pts
Juventus 2 C, 2 F, 1 S 11 pts
FC United 2 C, 1 S 7 pts
SS United 1 C, 2 F, 3 S 10 pts
MPS 1 C, 5 S 8 pts
Freedom 1 C 3 pts
SUNS 2 F, 1 S 5 pts
Crusaders 1 F, 2 S 4 pts
Inter 1 F, 2 S 4 pts
Eagles 1 F, 2 S 4 pts
Nor'easter 1 F, 2 S 4 pts
Blast 1 F, 1 S 3 pts
Dragons 1 F 2 pts
Olympique 1 F 2 pts
Galway 1 S 1 pt
Pioneers 1 S 1 pt
Puma 1 S 1 pt
Stars 1 S 1 pt

Red99
06-14-2007, 10:58 AM
But are your long, slender legs showing? :roll: :)

06-14-2007, 11:04 AM
Bolts are unlikely to win the State Cup at BU19.

This age group is wide open.

JustForFun
06-14-2007, 11:23 AM
Usually the U17B Finals is the fastest most heated contest if you like fast, one touch soccer between two teams playing to put 2007 State Champs on their college resume! But I understand the Bolts U17B are heavy favorites. So it might be worth watching the U16B Finals if it is Bolts versus WU in the finals. Last year it was a 1-0 Bolts win, but this year the Bolts coach announced he is leaving a few weeks ago. I have no idea who will actually win.

FSM
06-14-2007, 11:27 AM
GIRLS

Stars: 5 C, 3 F, 21 pts
Scorpions: 5 C, 2 F 2 S, 21 pts
MPS: 2 C, 3 F, 5 S, 17 pts
SSS: 2 C, 1 F, 2 S, 10 pts
Crusaders: 2 C, 2 S, 8 pts
Eagles: 2 C, 6 pts
CRU: 1 C, 2 F, 1 S, 8 pts
Bolts: 1 C, 1 F, 1 S, 6 pts
Nova: 1 C, 3 ptsSpirit: 4 F, 8 ptsWestern United: 2 F, 3 S, 7 pts
Aztecs: 2 F, 2 S, 6 pts
Inter: 1 F, 2 S, 4 pts
Fuller Hamlet: 1 F, 1 S, 3 pts
Pioneers: 1 F, 2 pts
Blast: 1 S, 1 pt
KICS: 1 S, 1 pt

in the know
06-14-2007, 11:48 AM
I remember watching the Stars-Scorps at AMherst and noticed that the Stars had a short bench and a couple of players not even in uniform. Maybe these players will be fit for this weekend or maybe it would be the same as Amherst.
Suzie any insight?

06-14-2007, 12:00 PM
When it comes to upsets there are degrees. For example I think it would be considered an upset if the U-15 Stars don't win the State Cup. However, if it is the Scorpions who beat them it would be a small upset as many observers see that game as a pick'em. If the Crusaders were to beat them it would be considered a bigger upset. For the Crusaders to win the entire State Cup it would be an even larger upset as they would need to gain upsets in both the semi-finals and finals. I happen to think the biggest upset would be the Hamlets winning at U-14. That isn't to say that they are a bad team - they are strong team that would be very competitve with most teams in the region. Problem is that their opponents are incredibly strong and so I think they have the most difficult path to a championship. Of course we are talking about teenage girls here. Anything is possible. That is why one of the least likely results is no "upsets" at all. Weather looks good, hopefully no one is injured. It should be a great weekend of soccer - at a great new complex.

Good Post. Don't count out the U14 hamlets. They surprised the mighty Scorporions three years ago in the finals when most said it couldn't be done. Don't put to much weight on the teams fall and spring season. The coach try's a lot of different combo's and doesn't care to much about the scores once most of what is needed is wrapped up during the season. But you are right the teams to beat are two of the best in the country.

Susy Soccer
06-14-2007, 12:18 PM
I remember watching the Stars-Scorps at AMherst and noticed that the Stars had a short bench and a couple of players not even in uniform. Maybe these players will be fit for this weekend or maybe it would be the same as Amherst.
Suzie any insight?

15s do not have a particularly short bench - they have 17 on the roster, one girl is injured and one was ill that weekend. By the way, I was not there but that's what I heard from friends on the team.

06-14-2007, 12:36 PM
Here are the Mathman Ratings for the U-14 group

South Coast 1149 vs Hamlets 774 (SC +375)
Stars 1314 vs. Greater Boston 995 (Stars + 319)

I have to assume that the numbers aren't too much different post Round Robin and I think one additional game for the Bolts. Not nearly as big a difference as some of the RR robin games.

06-14-2007, 10:50 PM
Usually the U17B Finals is the fastest most heated contest if you like fast, one touch soccer between two teams playing to put 2007 State Champs on their college resume! But I understand the Bolts U17B are heavy favorites. So it might be worth watching the U16B Finals if it is Bolts versus WU in the finals. Last year it was a 1-0 Bolts win, but this year the Bolts coach announced he is leaving a few weeks ago. I have no idea who will actually win.

Sure, that's the conventional wisdom, but I wouldn't look past the other two teams. The Inter U16B topped WU 2-0 in the round robin and made the Bolts work very hard to squeeze out a 1-0 win during the MAPLE season. Likewise with Stars U16B. Despite a lot of turnover, the team has done well to reach the semis again after winning the State championship at U14 and reaching semis last year, even though one could argue they got through in the weaker bracket. Lastly, you probably should not assume that a Bolts-Juventus matchup in the finals at U17 should be passed up for another match. You might miss an outstanding game.

06-15-2007, 09:51 AM
Which teams have the most team speed?
Are they all the favorites?

06-15-2007, 10:22 AM
Which teams have the most team speed?
Are they all the favorites?

Why do you ask? I've always been under the impression that footspeed is nice to have but is not the main factor that determines soccer effectiveness/competitiveness.

06-15-2007, 10:45 AM
I think there might be a difference in team speed and foot speed. Some soccer people talk about team speed meaning how fast the team moves the ball around the pitch (usually with one touch passes). At U16 and U17 the boys move the ball around the pitch, have team speed, that is twice as fast or more than the girls. Some like a faster game meaning faster ball movement. Sometimes that faster ball movement is referred to as team speed.

06-15-2007, 10:54 AM
Ahhh sorry about the misinterpretation..... would agree that "speed of play" is a crucial factor in determining outcome although it's very difficult to quantify

06-15-2007, 11:03 AM
The favored u16/17 boys team will have great speed of play.
What other attributes will the different player positions have?

06-15-2007, 11:29 AM
Those earlybirds at tomorrow's State Cup extravaganza should be sure to check out the U14 game at 8 am where the two doyennes of the Touchline (SS & FSM) will be on hand to cheer on their daughters.

06-15-2007, 12:04 PM
Of course we don't want anybody's mental vision of what either young lady looks like to be spoiled.

06-15-2007, 12:19 PM
Of course we don't want anybody's mental vision of what either young lady looks like to be spoiled.

Now boys, calm down and behave yourselves.

06-15-2007, 02:10 PM
Those earlybirds at tomorrow's State Cup extravaganza should be sure to check out the U14 game at 8 am where the two doyennes of the Touchline (SS & FSM) will be on hand to cheer on their daughters.






doy·enne /dɔɪˈɛn; Fr. dwaˈyɛn/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[doi-en; Fr. dwa-yen] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural doy·ennes /dɔɪˈɛnz; Fr. dwaˈyɛn/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[doi-enz; Fr. dwa-yen] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation. a woman who is the senior member, as in age or rank, of a group, class, profession, etc.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1900–05; < F, fem. of doyen doyen]


—Usage note See -enne.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

Blue Devil
06-15-2007, 02:19 PM
Has anybody seen a forecast? Will the long slender multi tasking legs be unveiled :)

06-15-2007, 02:22 PM
might be a bit cool so early in the morning to show off gams, but for the rest of the events weather looks splendid!!!

06-15-2007, 02:26 PM
Don, you must be really, really old. I remember watching you before school in first grade and I ain't no spring chicken.

06-15-2007, 02:28 PM
Has anybody seen a forecast? Will the long slender multi tasking legs be unveiled :)

You guys are really funny. FSM will be the one in the wheelchair. She lost a leg in an accident. :x

06-15-2007, 02:28 PM
Some of you guys need a cold sho wer. Why don't you all you guys wear pink flowers so that you can be identified. Better yet, just bring hot coffee.

Blue Devil
06-15-2007, 02:32 PM
Has anybody seen a forecast? Will the long slender multi tasking legs be unveiled :)

You guys are really funny. FSM will be the one in the wheelchair. She lost a leg in an accident. :x

If this is a true post then I apologize. I have never seen FSM and was referring to a post in jest by JFF that FSM also referred to.

FSM please PM me if I offended you and I will be happy to rectify the situation

Red99
06-15-2007, 03:27 PM
Those earlybirds at tomorrow's State Cup extravaganza should be sure to check out the U14 game at 8 am where the two doyennes of the Touchline (SS & FSM) will be on hand to cheer on their daughters.






doy·enne /dɔɪˈɛn; Fr. dwaˈyɛn/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[doi-en; Fr. dwa-yen] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural doy·ennes /dɔɪˈɛnz; Fr. dwaˈyɛn/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[doi-enz; Fr. dwa-yen] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation. a woman who is the senior member, as in age or rank, of a group, class, profession, etc.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1900–05; < F, fem. of doyen doyen]


—Usage note See -enne.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who had to look up the word (I've seen it in books but never have actually USED this term)!

I don't know FSM either but I think the wheelchair reference is a joke.....?

06-15-2007, 05:18 PM
The wheelchair reference was definitely a joke - a very poor joke.

FSM
06-15-2007, 08:44 PM
Guest has me confused with Heather McCarthy. Yes, we look very much alike, but I do have 2 good legs and I've never been accused of being a Gold digger. But she does dances better than I. :D

06-15-2007, 09:38 PM
Let's keep the players healthy! Should be some great games tomoorow, botht Girls & Boys. Weather looks good.

06-15-2007, 09:38 PM
Let's keep the players healthy! Should be some great games tomoorow, botht Girls & Boys. Weather looks good.

MASoccer
06-17-2007, 03:36 PM
Bolts in every age group for boys, maybe a upset in the boys U13 with Expo's

Other than the Expo's win Liverpool's prediction was way off. Haven't gotten the U16 score yet, but otherwise the Bolts only pulled off one championship on the boys side. If the Bolts beat the Stars in the U16 group there will be two. I believe the Bolts U17 girls won as well.

U13 - Expos
U14 - Blast (This was definately the sleeper team in this age group)
U15 - Bolts
U16 - undecided Bolts vs Stars
U17 - Juventus (huge win!)
U18 - Western United
U19 - NE Eagles

soccerczar
06-17-2007, 04:07 PM
Bolts also lost U-12 championship to FC United 2-1 on a golden goal.
Disagree on the blast i thought the Blast were the better team in U-14 all year long. They deserve the win for the championship.

06-17-2007, 05:40 PM
Bolts in every age group for boys, maybe a upset in the boys U13 with Expo's

Other than the Expo's win Liverpool's prediction was way off. Haven't gotten the U16 score yet, but otherwise the Bolts only pulled off one championship on the boys side. If the Bolts beat the Stars in the U16 group there will be two. I believe the Bolts U17 girls won as well.

U13 - Expos
U14 - Blast (This was definately the sleeper team in this age group)
U15 - Bolts
U16 - undecided Bolts vs Stars
U17 - Juventus (huge win!)
U18 - Western United
U19 - NE Eagles

Maybe Liverpool fan would be more appropriately named Boltsfan? :)

MASoccer
06-17-2007, 05:42 PM
Bolts also lost U-12 championship to FC United 2-1 on a golden goal.
Disagree on the blast i thought the Blast were the better team in U-14 all year long. They deserve the win for the championship.

I am in agreement, overall I thought the Blast had the most depth, but wasn't sure they could pull off the state title. I feel the Bolts went into this a bit over confident and the Blast took advantage.