ODP Players Best..Right?

I was in a bit of a sideline argument recently. I contend the best girls players play odp, to which i heard a ton of what seemed like sour grape reasons why this is not true. For example a scorp parent claimed their top teams would "wipe" the state team, and many stars and scorp kids no longer chose to participate, yet to attain opd status there are tryouts, and the coaches invite and encourage the best players whenever they identify them, like they did with my kid. We finished our sideline discussion friendly enough but a recent u15 thread got me thinking again.

If a kid makes the state team they are one of the top 18 or so players at their age group. By definition, they are the top of the top, probably in the top 1%. When I asked parents whether their kid tried out, invariably they did, but were just not chosen. Having watched the practices, I can say the kids picked are fit, fast and skilled. All are amazing soccer players. Why the snottiness toward odp? how come people can't just be proud and support their state side and players, but rather need to cut them down and say they are no longer the best? And of course the top, national team level stars and Ssorp players play odp, so what does that say about the odp bashers.

Re: ODP Players Best..Right?

I was in a bit of a sideline argument recently. I contend the best girls players play odp, to which i heard a ton of what seemed like sour grape reasons why this is not true. For example a scorp parent claimed their top teams would "wipe" the state team, and many stars and scorp kids no longer chose to participate, yet to attain opd status there are tryouts, and the coaches invite and encourage the best players whenever they identify them, like they did with my kid. We finished our sideline discussion friendly enough but a recent u15 thread got me thinking again.

If a kid makes the state team they are one of the top 18 or so players at their age group. [color=#]Only the kids that tried out. Numbers [/color][color=#]have decreased for the past 5 years.[/color] By definition, they are the top of the top, probably in the top 1%. When I asked parents whether their kid tried out, invariably they did, but were just not chosen. Having watched the practices, I can say the kids picked are fit, fast and skilled. All are amazing soccer players.[color=#]I respectfully [/color][color=#]question your credentials.[/color] Why the snottiness toward odp? how come people can't just be proud and support their state side and players, but rather need to cut them down and say they are no longer the best? And of course the top, national team level stars and Ssorp players play odp, so what does that say about the odp bashers.

[color=#] You are very wrong here. From last years national final team (U15 Stars) only 3 tried out for ODP. They get better training and better exposure from their club, as do Scorps players. Look at the State team last year and you will see kids that don't even start for their clubs' second team.[/color]

[color=#]ODP used to be fairly prestigious, as were things like Bandits Cup( 2 years ago was a Gold tournament with Stars and Scorps and now is Copper). If top teams/players choose not to attend than the shine is off. When kids can get coaches the caliber of Stars and Scorps (and of course many others) why spend time and money with lesser qualified coaches(L.Ray) at crap facilities in a hangar at Atlantic Union (This is where they choose who makes the outdoor team-- while not having seen them play outside for 5 months!!)? The kids that avoid ODP go to top tournaments that attract college coaches therefore ODP (which has nothing to do with the Olympics) is of little use.

My kid did ODP but found it to be far inferior to her club coaching. Another factor is that many people can't pay the extra fees so they may opt to not try out. Yet another is the fact that not all the players in the state are near the Lancaster area and a drive from the Cape or Springfield is a pain in the tuckuss after a 5 hour Sunday session in an antiquated gym.
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Re: ODP Players Best..Right?

When I asked parents whether their kid tried out, invariably they did, but were just not chosen.

This is not my experience. There is one U18 boy that has recently been invited to the National camp. He stopped trying out for ODP at U13. I am guessing your experience is at the youger girls ages. It all changes at the older ages and it is completely different for boys. College questionaires ask, "Oldest ODP age played". In other words if you play ODP at U11 to U16 and then drop out it looks worse than never having played. Of course if you join and play at U17 you save $1000s and it looks the same on the college questionaire. Also a lot of kids do not enjoy ODP - especially at the older ages.

Re: ODP Players Best..Right?

"Why spend time and money with lesser qualified coaches(L.Ray) at crap facilities in a hangar at Atlantic Union?"

This is so so true. Ask for the ODP coach's resume - you might be shocked!!!!

Re: ODP Players Best..Right?

"Why spend time and money with lesser qualified coaches(L.Ray) at crap facilities in a hangar at Atlantic Union?"

This is so so true. Ask for the ODP coach's resume - you might be shocked!!!!

I may be wrong here, but isn't the intent of the ODP program to identify talent and assemble a team that best represents the state of Massachusetts? These kids all play for club teams, and that's where they receive their training/development. Am I wrong? While the ODP ensemble may not contain all of the best players in the state, there is certainly sufficient talent in the pool to push/pull each player to compete at a higher level.

Re: ODP Players Best..Right?

]I was in a bit of a sideline argument recently. I contend the best girls players play odp, to which i heard a ton of what seemed like sour grape reasons why this is not true. For example a scorp parent claimed their top teams would "wipe" the state team, and many stars and scorp kids no longer chose to participate, yet to attain opd status there are tryouts, and the coaches invite and encourage the best players whenever they identify them, like they did with my kid. We finished our sideline discussion friendly enough but a recent u15 thread got me thinking again.

How old is your daughter? Does she play for a club other than the Scorpions or Stars?

Re: ODP Players Best..Right?

I may be wrong here, but isn't the intent of the ODP program to identify talent and assemble a team that best represents the state of Massachusetts? These kids all play for club teams, and that's where they receive their training/development. Am I wrong? While the ODP ensemble may not contain all of the best players in the state, there is certainly sufficient talent in the pool to push/pull each player to compete at a higher level.

The problem is they don't train enough and the coaching at the state level isn't good enough to push/pull each player to compete at a higher level. The girls who are playing for top teams at top clubs are training multiple times a week, year round and are probably regularly playing against other teams (including boys teams) in their club which means they are often being challenged by older more experienced players. ODP can't replicate that same environment. So you may think that ODP is the best of the best, but unless players are being exposed to that kind of environment, their ability to develop is limited. This is one of the reasons USSF has moved boys into the DAP.

Re: ODP Players Best..Right?

]I was in a bit of a sideline argument recently. I contend the best girls players play odp, to which i heard a ton of what seemed like sour grape reasons why this is not true. For example a scorp parent claimed their top teams would "wipe" the state team, and many stars and scorp kids no longer chose to participate, yet to attain opd status there are tryouts, and the coaches invite and encourage the best players whenever they identify them, like they did with my kid. We finished our sideline discussion friendly enough but a recent u15 thread got me thinking again.

How old is your daughter? Does she play for a club other than the Scorpions or Stars?

My kid is a 2 year veteran of ODP and does not play for either team.

Let me clarify: if your child is in a situation where ODP benefits her, great. Perhaps her club is mediocre and her coaching is average--in that case moving to better competition is good and I admire you/her for doing it. But the facts are that most
top tier kids at 13,14,15 are not doing it.

Ask your coach about ODP. Ask top coaches what they think of the program and you may be surprised. You will also find that certain top tier coaches were involved in ODP but left because the program was not great. Look it up and see for yourself.

Re: ODP Players Best..Right?

"Why spend time and money with lesser qualified coaches(L.Ray) at crap facilities in a hangar at Atlantic Union?"

This is so so true. Ask for the ODP coach's resume - you might be shocked!!!!

I may be wrong here, but isn't the intent of the ODP program to identify talent and assemble a team that best represents the state of Massachusetts? These kids all play for club teams, and that's where they receive their training/development. Am I wrong? While the ODP ensemble may not contain all of the best players in the state, there is certainly sufficient talent in the pool to push/pull each player to compete at a higher level.

Not exactly correct. The ultimate goal is to identify players for the national team. Unfortunately, this is left in the hands of less than qualified coaches and administrators at the state level to begin the process.

My experience has been that state ODP is of the most value to the parents who get to brag at dinner parties that their kid is part of the Olympic Development Program.

Re: ODP Players Best..Right?

The original poster was also wrong about the invitations and top players trying out and not getting in. ODP coaches DO identify players, but DO NOT invite them anymore. When their ranks are filled with those who do try-out they do not invite kids they themselves would like to see participate. Why? Only the coaches can tell you. But this is a verified fact. Second, VERY FEW of the Stars, Scorps or MPS players ever try-out. They are in a good club system that works well for them and provides great development and great coaching. Likely better than what ODP has to offer on the state level. The biggest issue is that ODP requires a kid to go to EVERY ODP event even when in conflict with their club activities. That is a very hard choice for kids and their parents. It seems totally out of whack when the club team is together all year and the ODP process is a limited one with never more than once a week activities other than tournaments and camps. It makes it hard on these players from top clubs. Although there are some very talented kids participating in ODP, the entire roster is not as strong as the top three girls clubs rosters all the way through. If you have only 2-3 Stars pplayers and 2-3 Scorps players and 2-3 MPS players and the rest of the kids are drawn from the second and third tier MAPLE teams, how is that the best of the best? The one advantage that ODP should still have is a great opportunity for kids to be identified and selected for regional and national pools which would be ideal for development of the top few players each year from MA. However - the history of MA ODP does not show that this happens as much as it should, so the one big advantage that SHOULD exist does not work. Yes, the Mewis girls and Brock participated in ODP and moved onto to Regional and then National pools and team. But they are rare in this day and age. If its about a players development, look at the coaching and the level of players the kid plays with. If the kid's not being challenged by her coach and her teammates then change clubs or do ODP. If its about identification for advancement within the National and Regional pools, then the only choices are ODP or a Super Y team's affiliations which lead to id2 National Camps and Super Y ODP. There's not specific answer for everyone. It's what is best for your individual child.

Re: ODP Players Best..Right?

This is so so true. Ask for the ODP coach's resume - you might be shocked!!!!

Serious question: what would one expect from an ODP coach's resume?

Re: ODP Players Best..Right?

Making/participating in the state program might not be worth it, but you need to participate to get into id camp. Making the regional pool is where the seperation begins and where the coaching is much better. Then again, you do not have to go through ODP to be recognized. If a player is outstanding, they will be found. One will be surprised at the knowledge collegiate coaches (and national team coaches) have of top youth players from 15-17, ODP or no ODP. For those not on the radar, ODP is one of the (oldest)programs to get exposure, but not the only one. ODP is for identification, clubs are for development and training. Is ODP worth the $$$. Only if you are realistic on your childs ability. Get a second (or third opinion) from a non-biased(non-ODP) qualified coach on what the potential might be for your child. No sense in throwing $$$ after unrealistic expectaions, putting too much pressure on your child on a goal they are not physically able to achieve.

And yes, I have kids who went through it.

Re: ODP Players Best..Right?

Bottom line is if you know your kid is possibly good enough to be a national team player down the road, you really have to do ODP. The average high level players parents know their kids are not near that level so they will put the odp program down. Wait till you see the reaction though if the kid that does ODP and makes the regional or national team pool, then it is much different. Seems like state ODP gets put down, but regional and national is big thing
just my opinion

Re: ODP Players Best..Right?

"The average height high level players parents know their kids are not near that level so they will put the odp program down." Speaking of girls only. If it's boys, then that sentence would read "The parents of high level players born in the second half of the year know their kids are not near that level so they will put the odp program down."

Re: ODP Players Best..Right?

I was in a bit of a sideline argument recently. I contend the best girls players play odp, to which i heard a ton of what seemed like sour grape reasons why this is not true. For example a scorp parent claimed their top teams would "wipe" the state team, and many stars and scorp kids no longer chose to participate, yet to attain opd status there are tryouts, and the coaches invite and encourage the best players whenever they identify them, like they did with my kid. We finished our sideline discussion friendly enough but a recent u15 thread got me thinking again.

If a kid makes the state team they are one of the top 18 or so players at their age group. By definition, they are the top of the top, probably in the top 1%. When I asked parents whether their kid tried out, invariably they did, but were just not chosen. Having watched the practices, I can say the kids picked are fit, fast and skilled. All are amazing soccer players. Why the snottiness toward odp? how come people can't just be proud and support their state side and players, but rather need to cut them down and say they are no longer the best? And of course the top, national team level stars and Ssorp players play odp, so what does that say about the odp bashers.

What many parents do not realize that ODP is not about a "team". Its about identification of individuals. They don't care about "team" they want to see individual skills of taking on 1v1, defending, when to make that through pass, service in the box, killer headers off a corner blah blah blah. I've seen ODP coaches stop play and tell the pool, "too much passing, I want to see individual skills and don't be afraid to make mistakes". Its all about "you" in the most selfish respect, because its you against everyone else to make the regional pool and ESP, and if you are skilled enough (and lucky too) the national age group pool. You can be a "team" player on your club, but when its tryout time, the youth that are picked are those who show great individual skills, especially the ones in all positions (except keeper who have their own sets of expectation). Its Ms. Me who can dribble 18 to 18 pass everyone and service with precision, who knows when to pass as a second option, who know how to escape when pinned in the corner, who knows how to strike with their back to the goal with a quick pivot. You get the picture, identify the individuals, not make up a team at the state level, or even the regional level. "Teams" are not really formed until the national level, and this is where the coaches can dip into these pools to put together the dynamics of a "team".

What about the Rider tournament with the state teams? Its a preview for the regional coaches to pre select who is going to make the pools in the heat of July at URI. Its not about the team thing, they could care less who won or loss. As far as being the top 1% at the state level, I think that is a fallacy, as not all top players participate in ODP. Making it through regional and into national pool is a different story as now you are looking at a statisically larger group of high level players and to get that far, the odds are more against you then at the state level.