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    Uswnt

    Slowly and surely the US women's soccer is falling. Soccer was never played more than now. The training and conditions are better, the number of players are increasing everyday. We should dominate this sport by miles. What is the problem? Lobbies? Players ID? Time for some clean up.

    http://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranki...men/index.html

    #2
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    Slowly and surely the US women's soccer is falling. Soccer was never played more than now. The training and conditions are better, the number of players are increasing everyday. We should dominate this sport by miles. What is the problem? Lobbies? Players ID? Time for some clean up.

    http://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranki...men/index.html
    For many years the uswnt has dominated by utilizing the superior speed and strength. More and more countries have counter or neutralize our athletic superiority with a greater ball control game. They all know if they can control the tempo and rhythm of the game that will give them the best chance to win.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      Slowly and surely the US women's soccer is falling. Soccer was never played more than now. The training and conditions are better, the number of players are increasing everyday. We should dominate this sport by miles. What is the problem? Lobbies? Players ID? Time for some clean up.

      http://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranki...men/index.html

      Football is a simple game. Twenty-two men (or women) chase a ball for 90 minutes and at the end, the Germans always win.

      Gary Lineker

      # 1 men and #1 women...It's good to be a german

      Comment


        #4
        Poor technique and tactics including- get the ball to the fast player or the tall player in the box. No creativity in the attacking third limits opportunities. Our WNT be eclipsed within 20 years if no changes implemented immediately. The Algarve and Brazilian experiences this year with most recently tie to China and loss to Brazil (due in large part to their singular creativity) should be a wake up call.

        Yes there is a problem with ID. Just look at our U20s Outed by north korea. U17 don't even qualify in 2 of last 3 cycles. More than half of our u20s had played in the u17 world cup 2 years ago and were technically underage. Where were the '94s (oldest birth year for this year's u20s)? Of those former u17s, the majority were id's into national program as 13 year olds. They threw in a '98 as a starting attacking mid. What a freaking joke! that kid was all speed and no technique. After her epic fail, they had to move one of the most technical players (Horan) back to attacking mid. Of course that left a huge hole up top because, unfortunately, Horan could not pass to Horan. Moving Rose Lavelle forward to Attacking mid might have helped , because other than Horan, she was the only player to show some technical flair and creativity. However as a holding mid, that attribute was poorly utilized.

        Because we select players at 13, we select for early puberty and those later puberty skillful kids were largely overlooked. The new addition of separate tracks for even (U20s in girls) and odd (U17s for girls) within the usynt programs should do a bit better at id. However, the evaluators must not become overly invested in young children so that they are blind to their shortcomings while failing to identify a "late bloomer"

        Comment


          #5
          Unlike the men's side - which is at least trying to fix the development issue with DAP - the women's side is completely run by clubs. ECNL is run by clubs for clubs to get girls into college. Really when all is said and done that is their goal and the goal of 99.9% of the players. DAP isn't perfect but it's a step in the right direction, with some degree of accountability to a governing national organization.

          That and like so much else in the US we've rested on our laurels for too long and now other countries have caught up and surpassed us. Then everyone stands around wondering "what happened"?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Football is a simple game. Twenty-two men (or women) chase a ball for 90 minutes and at the end, the Germans always win.

            Gary Lineker

            # 1 men and #1 women...It's good to be a german
            36 years between WC titles.....calm down.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              Poor technique and tactics including- get the ball to the fast player or the tall player in the box. No creativity in the attacking third limits opportunities. Our WNT be eclipsed within 20 years if no changes implemented immediately. The Algarve and Brazilian experiences this year with most recently tie to China and loss to Brazil (due in large part to their singular creativity) should be a wake up call.

              Yes there is a problem with ID. Just look at our U20s Outed by north korea. U17 don't even qualify in 2 of last 3 cycles. More than half of our u20s had played in the u17 world cup 2 years ago and were technically underage. Where were the '94s (oldest birth year for this year's u20s)? Of those former u17s, the majority were id's into national program as 13 year olds. They threw in a '98 as a starting attacking mid. What a freaking joke! that kid was all speed and no technique. After her epic fail, they had to move one of the most technical players (Horan) back to attacking mid. Of course that left a huge hole up top because, unfortunately, Horan could not pass to Horan. Moving Rose Lavelle forward to Attacking mid might have helped , because other than Horan, she was the only player to show some technical flair and creativity. However as a holding mid, that attribute was poorly utilized.

              Because we select players at 13, we select for early puberty and those later puberty skillful kids were largely overlooked. The new addition of separate tracks for even (U20s in girls) and odd (U17s for girls) within the usynt programs should do a bit better at id. However, the evaluators must not become overly invested in young children so that they are blind to their shortcomings while failing to identify a "late bloomer"
              Soccer people who have been criticizing the youth soccer club culture have been predicting that this would happen for years. ID'ing players too early and ignoring late bloomers (which ignores the mental part of development) and the "pay to play" model replacing a less financially driven selection system are all part of the problem. Not to mention that the incessant movement of players as their parents search for the "best" situation for their kid(s) inhibits team development. Mercenaries don't make good teammates. - Cujo

              Comment


                #8
                The problem is not with payer ID. It is with who is IDing the players. The players in our current pool lack creativity and soccer IQ.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  The problem is not with payer ID. It is with who is IDing the players. The players in our current pool lack creativity and soccer IQ.
                  Agree. It doesn't help either to have coaches in that process that are DOC or coaches of their own clubs.
                  This process must be unbiased and neutral. Until one government body controls this situation the derailing will continue.
                  Some great players are missed because they don't play certain leagues or they are not chosen at early ages.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    In my opinion...

                    It is the system we have for identify and grooming talent for the USWNT. The current WNT is composed of (some of ?) the best soccer players available, trained and developed by their individual clubs primary and through ODP as additional training and then used as a pool to form a team.

                    What you then had was a group of excellent soccer players, who frequently then played for the USWNT in positions unfamiliar to them after being trained by a system that rewarded individual play over teamwork.

                    In ODP, to be identified you had to stand out in a crowd and were in fierce competition with the players around you ... that was the system we had. On the players club teams, the dominate training venue the player had, some players played the same position as they would be slotted in the USWNT but frequently, on the back-line in particular, players were place there based on talent and athleticism, not depth of knowledge in the position (think currently with Sam Mewis as an outside back when she plays for the WNT).

                    So you have a number of players on the field, trained as individual and competitors with their teammates playing in many case positions unfamiliar to them. The fact the system has worked at all is simply a case of a far greater and better supported pool of talent dominating a team sport by athleticism. It was and is a recipe for disaster, the world was destined to catch up and has. Japans victory was the wake up call we heard but could not accept. Recent history tells us this is true.

                    When Tom Sermanni attempted to move the WNT to a more possession style of play, to bring in younger players more adept to new ideas and stress team over individual play he was fired shortly thereafter. Why ... Because the players, the veterans trained by the ODP program and the current system did not like it. The same veterans are now deciding which city they will play in within their fledging and frequently faltering league, a league they should feel a great deal of responsibility to support for both their own futures and for the future of their sport. Much as we love these players as individuals, we need to face the harsh reality that we have trained them to be that way, individuals within a team framework. We have been talented enough to overcome this in the past but the world has caught up, using possession and conditioning to nullify our (previous) physical advantage.

                    The good news in all of this, again in my opinion, is the fact that ODP's influence has been greatly diminished and should continue to be so, at least as it is now structured. Top leagues like ECNL and DAP and others should now be bringing to the national teams players well schooled in both the game and their positions if we have the intelligence to use this properly. We should transition and use the time and resources spent on the current ODP program to expand the National (and possibly regional) programs at U17 and above, once the player have reached physical (and to some degree physiological) maturity and has the positional history to be as tactically strong as they need to be on the world stage.

                    It is late to the party, but it is time to rethink how we develop players for the national stage. DAP was a great step forward on the boys side but USA Soccer has left the girls side to its own devices ... for better or worse. With similar but competing leagues forming on the girls side, one hopes that it can all be sorted into the best possible team going forward. The talent pool is there, of that there is little question. It is just a matter of properly developing it and utilizing it.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Beachbum View Post
                      In my opinion...

                      It is the system we have for identify and grooming talent for the USWNT. The current WNT is composed of (some of ?) the best soccer players available, trained and developed by their individual clubs primary and through ODP as additional training and then used as a pool to form a team.

                      What you then had was a group of excellent soccer players, who frequently then played for the USWNT in positions unfamiliar to them after being trained by a system that rewarded individual play over teamwork.

                      In ODP, to be identified you had to stand out in a crowd and were in fierce competition with the players around you ... that was the system we had. On the players club teams, the dominate training venue the player had, some players played the same position as they would be slotted in the USWNT but frequently, on the back-line in particular, players were place there based on talent and athleticism, not depth of knowledge in the position (think currently with Sam Mewis as an outside back when she plays for the WNT).

                      So you have a number of players on the field, trained as individual and competitors with their teammates playing in many case positions unfamiliar to them. The fact the system has worked at all is simply a case of a far greater and better supported pool of talent dominating a team sport by athleticism. It was and is a recipe for disaster, the world was destined to catch up and has. Japans victory was the wake up call we heard but could not accept. Recent history tells us this is true.

                      When Tom Sermanni attempted to move the WNT to a more possession style of play, to bring in younger players more adept to new ideas and stress team over individual play he was fired shortly thereafter. Why ... Because the players, the veterans trained by the ODP program and the current system did not like it. The same veterans are now deciding which city they will play in within their fledging and frequently faltering league, a league they should feel a great deal of responsibility to support for both their own futures and for the future of their sport. Much as we love these players as individuals, we need to face the harsh reality that we have trained them to be that way, individuals within a team framework. We have been talented enough to overcome this in the past but the world has caught up, using possession and conditioning to nullify our (previous) physical advantage.

                      The good news in all of this, again in my opinion, is the fact that ODP's influence has been greatly diminished and should continue to be so, at least as it is now structured. Top leagues like ECNL and DAP and others should now be bringing to the national teams players well schooled in both the game and their positions if we have the intelligence to use this properly. We should transition and use the time and resources spent on the current ODP program to expand the National (and possibly regional) programs at U17 and above, once the player have reached physical (and to some degree physiological) maturity and has the positional history to be as tactically strong as they need to be on the world stage.

                      It is late to the party, but it is time to rethink how we develop players for the national stage. DAP was a great step forward on the boys side but USA Soccer has left the girls side to its own devices ... for better or worse. With similar but competing leagues forming on the girls side, one hopes that it can all be sorted into the best possible team going forward. The talent pool is there, of that there is little question. It is just a matter of properly developing it and utilizing it.
                      Although you don't believe in ODP, it was better than what we have now. The results proved it. At least we didn't have the country club style that we have now. I remember a kid playing for SSS making it to regional and even invited to NT camp through that process. With all respect to those clubs, what is the chance for a player let's say playing for NOVA now to make it to USNT?
                      Nope, not all the best players are playing in one league nor there is one venue similar that at least ODP tried to do.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        Although you don't believe in ODP, it was better than what we have now. The results proved it....
                        Yet another of your logic fails. Past performance is obviously not a reliable indicator of future results, given various shifting factors--including, in this case, how other countries have responded since then (as Beachbum made clear). Moreover, that past performance has been overrated. Germany also has two World Cup wins on the women's side, both more recent than the US's. Evidently, the USWNT is stuck in the '90s--unless, of course, one would conveniently use Olympic gold medals as the standard for highest level of success.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          The truth lies in the middle. We have talented players but the people who evaluate them are awful. In the past we won because we out muscled every other teams. Not the case anymore. Many countries now have the players to compete with us in term of speed and strength. They also have more technical skill players and systems or style of play to neutralize our strength. I still believe we have the talents but talents alone don't won game if the other teams are as equally talented as us. Our biggest enemy is ourselves. We lack the patience to development the world class players because we are a result oriented society. We are judge by wins or loses in the age groups where we should focus more on development. Also since we don't have a national style of play players come to the national team with different skill set and philosophy of how the game should be play.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            The truth lies in the middle. We have talented players but the people who evaluate them are awful. In the past we won because we out muscled every other teams. Not the case anymore. Many countries now have the players to compete with us in term of speed and strength. They also have more technical skill players and systems or style of play to neutralize our strength. I still believe we have the talents but talents alone don't won game if the other teams are as equally talented as us. Our biggest enemy is ourselves. We lack the patience to development the world class players because we are a result oriented society. We are judge by wins or loses in the age groups where we should focus more on development. Also since we don't have a national style of play players come to the national team with different skill set and philosophy of how the game should be play.
                            There is an obsession with size and speed. Teams are built based on individual skills as opposed to building a team that has a few 5 tool players and a supporting cast of players who excel at a few things (throw ins, corners, defensive clearing via headers etc...). Most of the women's teams and players that I watch now are robotic and unimaginative, passing for the sake of possession alone, and clearly discouraged from taking risks. You can win games 0-0. If you are 6-0 150, have ripped abs and a blonde w/ ponytail - you are in like Flynn.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              Yet another of your logic fails. Past performance is obviously not a reliable indicator of future results, given various shifting factors--including, in this case, how other countries have responded since then (as Beachbum made clear). Moreover, that past performance has been overrated. Germany also has two World Cup wins on the women's side, both more recent than the US's. Evidently, the USWNT is stuck in the '90s--unless, of course, one would conveniently use Olympic gold medals as the standard for highest level of success.
                              Let us put other countries aside for a second. Did you watch our youth teams or even our senior team as of late? It is discouraging: Barely any creativity, predictable, most of time no purpose, and super-robotic. Mia Hamm and her crew played a high pressure game, with a lot of possession, skills and meaning. Specially when Tony was the coach.
                              Yes we always dominated the rest of the world physically but it wasn't just that. We have coaches in our national staff as we speak dispatching talented players with "you are not physical enough", or "you need to be faster" for not to say "move to my club and you will be part of national camp." We are doomed with this process.

                              Comment

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